I am currently researching the viability of the existance of silicon-based life forms on athas. the two main reigonal candidates are the equator (depending on the temperaure) or deeeeeeep within the athesian underdark.
I am not looking to create 'crystal men' or anything like that, and I want them to work relativley well as far as real-world science is concerned.
If anyone has any sugestions, advice or usefull info, this would be much appreciated.
I don't know more than this, since here in Brazil, the story will be published for us in the next monthly Hulk Magazine.
Unfortunately, just becaude a life form is silicone based, dosen'y mean that it neacicarliy resembles rock, or glass, anymore than we resemble charcoul, graphite or diamond… unless the rocky surface is the silicon dioxide ffrom the respatory process…
thankyou for that imput.
The problem lies in the fact that silicon-based lifeform would be damn near impossible, as far as we know. Rather than make something "realistic," just make what you think would be fun; no one will judge you for that (except for me: I'll judge you, and then make fun of you).
I've decided to place them arround the equator, with isolated pockets of this otherly life clustering arround the geothermic hotspots.
As we turn all to carbon when heated (or burned), wouldn't it happen to the silicon-based life forms too?
Some other notes (just before any confusion happens). Silicon based life would probably not resemble glass, rocks or quartz anymore than we resemble grapite, diamond or buchyball fluid (unless you count the excretion of silicon-dioxide(wich may or may not happen)). Also, Silicon based life would not consume nay of the above materials any more readily than we consume a pure form of the the element on wich we are based on (and yes, I do know that we can eat charcoal).
Just clearing that up, and thak you for the imput.
I just have one question: should I make these creatures 'phsionicly aware'? I'm planing on giving none of them the phsionic powers that are present in the creatures of the tablelands; It's not how they are wired (and this gives them an 'otherly' feel; mabe even make them resiliant to mental attacks)
Why nobody told this at school?? 
(just kidding) :D**
I understand your point. But I would say that if we don't live in charcoal mines and neither eat raw carbon sandwichs is because we find carbon on almost everything on the planet.
Assuming things on athas would have the same chemical formula, a race based on carbon would keep the same options that we do. On the other hand, a silicon based life form would have to search for it's basic element more directly...
**
So they would be non-psionic?
That would do good, but how do you plan to balance this? If not the psionics what will assure their survival on Athas???
What makes then resistant/powerful/capable enough to survive? What would be the major singularity about then to make the race unique?
Have you already thought about a way to explain their origin? Will they descend from the Blue Age Halflings too?
Assuming things on athas would have the same chemical formula, a race based on carbon would keep the same options that we do. On the other hand, a silicon based life form would have to search for it's basic element more directly...
;) Sorry Fabricio, Silicon is the 2nd most abundant element on Earth after Oxygen. So if Athas has the same chemical makeup then it would be easier to find Silicon than Carbon. Don't you just love elements?!
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
;) Sorry Fabricio, Silicon is the 2nd most abundant element on Earth after Oxygen. So if Athas has the same chemical makeup then it would be easier to find Silicon than Carbon. Don't you just love elements?!
Actually I thought it was Aluminum but not in its pure state.
Actually I thought it was Aluminum but not in its pure state.
Good Point! Aluminum, Aluminium for you English folks, is the most abundant element in the Earth's crust.
Originally posted by irdeggman
Actually I thought it was Aluminum but not in its pure state.
Silicon's right up there - especially since everything with sand on it, has vast quantities of silicon. There's this little stretch of beach across the northern part of Africa you may be familiar with, called the Sahara.
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
;) Sorry Fabricio, Silicon is the 2nd most abundant element on Earth after Oxygen. So if Athas has the same chemical makeup then it would be easier to find Silicon than Carbon. Don't you just love elements?!
How am I supose to know this? Oh, come on! Is it so obvious?
What are you a chemical fanatic? Give me a break.. I'm just a friendly lawyer..
OK I give up!!!
What are you a chemical fanatic?
Actually I am! I have a very nice collection of pure elements. Currently I have a 3rd of all elements possible to actually own. Yes, some collect baseball cards and others collect rocks, but I collect elements!
I'm just a friendly lawyer
No such thing. Sorry Fab, but you can't possibly exist.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
No such thing. Sorry Fab, but you can't possibly exist.
Ok! Then I'm a product of my own imagination.. heheh. poke me so I can awake.
Back to the topic, The People, do you intend to post here the new race? I'm curious to see it.
I'll start posting them when I have time to turn the fluff into crunch.
*Silicate is a subtype of cerature, like good, evil, fire, etc.
*Creatures with the silicate subtype gain no nutrition from consuming non-silicates, and vica-verca.
* Silicate creaures have 'unawakened' minds, compared to the other creaturtes of athas. they get a +8 racial bonus on will saves against mind afecting powers. In adition to this, they are unable to manifest powers, gain levels in psioic classes, or take any feats that confir a phionic ability. A psion may take a feat to counterect this.
*The base of the silicon-based ecosystem is an ooze, not a plant. A defiler may take a feat that alows it to defile oozes that have the silicate subtype as if they where plants. (this explains why Borys did not decimate the silicate ecosystem).
And some fluff:
"You see before you a barren wasteland scattered with small rocky uotcropings. A fine grey powder blows in the wind. Underneath your feet are flakes and chunks of a soft rock that are the same hew as the airborn powder that is now catching in your clothes and hair.
"As you walk through this desolate vista, you begin to see signs of life, shifings of barley detectable moveoment in the distance. Almost as if the rocks themselvs where moving. It's dificult to tell through the haze of incecant heat that hampers your every movement.
"You rech for the waterskin on your belt, willing to do anything to make this thirst leave. As you do this, something catches your eye, a small, amorpus, grey-green glob is slowly oozing over the broken ground, seemingly unaware of your presence.
"Now you begin to notice more of these creatures, about four of them. They would probably be about the size of your fist. You watch one of themin tanse facinination as it ambles towards a small rock.
"The rock shifts and unfolds, leaping at the ooze and latching onto it with a lamprey-like maw. You watch in facination as what you first took to be a rock devouers it's meal. It moves on a multitude of spidly legs protruding from it's long, grey, fleshy body.
"All that remains of the original rocky disguise is a pile of chips and flakes that blent in perfectly with the ground. You look up again and see large shabes shifting in the distance…"
What do you think? Any construcitve criticism would be great.
Very well keep on..
I definitely like the idea that silicate plants are naturally immune to "normal" Defiler energy-drain. Possibly it is a natural development to resist the massive effects of Defilers? And that there's an entire ecosystem of plants and animals that are silicon-based? I personally don't see a problem with there being sentient races of silicon-based life. Maybe the animals are likewise resistant to dragon magic as their plant-equivalents are to defilers.
I'd also suggest rather than silicate plants being an ooze, I'd almost make them into a more crystaline development. The silicate animal-equivalents aren't, but the plants could potentially have some more crystalline qualities.
Stlicat oozes aren't plants, they just fill the same echoligical neiche. A carbon-based plant is a (reasonably) static thing because it gains much of it's nutrition through carbon-dioxide (CO2), the bi-product of a carbon-based respatory system, which is a gas. The bi-product of a silicon-based respatory system is silicon-dioxide (SO2). SO2 is a solid, so for a creature to utilize it effectivley, that creature must (1) be mobile and (2) Be able to absorb it in a relitvley simple manner. This is why (by my logic) the basis of this ecosystem would be , not a plant, but an ooze.
And personally, I prefer 'silicate' to be a subtype, rather than a template becaust I don't want to be creating 'Silicate Humans', or 'Silicate Black Puddings', but compleetly seperate races and creatures. but if you can convince me otherwise…
I haven't explained these things verry well previously. Why can't you just read my mind?!?
Thanx for feedback, will post more later.
The idea of a whole new ecosystem is very interesting.. maybe they could be the evolution of the old halflings nature-shapers that just arrived in the comet Messenger back to Athas. They would have evolved to this point.
Or else.. this could be their last creation (the halflings would be long dead, but their creation evolved to the point to return to their ancient homeworld), this creation wouldn't have much to fear about the SK or the defilers.. since they're immune to normal and draconic defiling magic.
Hum... Just thinking.. I'll stop for now... otherwise I'll start to write a silicon based ecosystem myself... heheh
I was actually thinking to have this ecosystem evolving compleetly seperate from the influence of the Rhulitsi.
Will write more later, keep the criticism, feedback and pointers coming!
Originally posted by The People
Does anyone here know enough about bioligy to tell me how virues work and weather or not a carbon based virus would efect silicon based creatures (and vice-verca) and why (or why not).??
As far as I know about biology (and that's not a lot since I'm a lawyer), viruses are the smalest organism recognized as a life-form on Earth. On carbon based creatures (us) they reproduce parasiting on our DNA. They inject their own DNA code on our cells core and add their DNA to ours reprograming our DNA to multiply the entire virus as much as possible, this goes on till the cell is so filled with viruses that it explodes.
Based on that I would say that a carbon based virus could work, (we only need the silicon based life form to have a DNA) but I don't think this would happen, even among ourselves we have viruses that affect some mammals and not others.
Viruses work with DNA and thus would be limited to DNA-based lifeforms; but do consider that viruses are epitomes of adaptability and exist for long periods of time (in the order of generations) only if they've managed to adapt to a niche, and develop the mechanisms to exploit that niche, which allows them the time to duplicate themselves and infest a new host cell.
But do also consider that only four nucleotides exist in DNA. Alien lifeforms based on DNA - which would tip the balance of cosmic convergent organic evolution in the favor of DNA as a universal transmitter of genetic information (ohhh, big words) - might not be composed of those same four nucleotides. This and other subtle differences - three-dimensionnal configuration of the DNA within a cell - might render viruses incapable of affecting ecosystems of other worlds.
Also do consider that viruses can sometimes be so simple - too simple in fact to be alive - that they can be produced in sterile environments from scratch. They do form naturally without life needing to be present; all that is required is very complex organics that form from unliving processes.
An alien half a cluster away being given amino acids and some other transitionnal molecules can make the simplest of viruses in a flask, without knowing that DNA life is possible.
It would seem that D&D viruses work diferently to real-world viruses, as they cross the species barrier quite readily. Wait…I think they call them deseases… I'm confused. What exactly is the diference between a disease and a virus? Biology isn't my area. And is there anything about a disease that would stop it from crossing over the carbon-silicon barier? or affecting creatures of either type? and is there any diference (in D&D terms, rueswize) between a virus and a disease?
Originally posted by The People
Hmmm, Thank you. I seem to remenber reading somewhare that the lamprey is the only known creature that has a diferent way of recording/trensmiting it's genetic material (other than DNA) what this is and, more importantly, weather it's true or not I can't remember. Does anyone know anything about that?
It would seem that D&D viruses work diferently to real-world viruses, as they cross the species barrier quite readily. Wait…I think they call them deseases… I'm confused. What exactly is the diference between a disease and a virus? Biology isn't my area. And is there anything about a disease that would stop it from crossing over the carbon-silicon barier? or affecting creatures of either type? and is there any diference (in D&D terms, rueswize) between a virus and a disease?
Can't remember now anything about lampreys (thought they had DNA too, and the only difference were that they could reproduce by duplicating thenselves... as if you stood in front of a mirror and your image became alive*)
*Yeah, I simplified the proccess
Viruses causes diseases.
The D&D game never treated the virus subject as it deserved (I sound like a biologist), id didn't need too. It just generalized then all by using the "disease" word.
So, in D&D terms, it doesn't matter if the disease is caused either by a virus, an algi, a fungi, some other microscopic organism, or a chemical substance (poisons and alike).
The only thing, IMO, that could matter is if it's magical or not. So, I assume that magical diseases usually cross the racial barrier, and naturals do not. Taking that to the silicon-carbon barrier I would say that the magical diseases would cross it too, except if the magical disease was intented for a special purpose. You, of course, as the DM and creator would be free to say different. After all it always end on the gold rule: "If you are the DM your word makes the law" (adapted from Louis XVI - Le Roi Soleil)
YAY!
the only difference were that they could reproduce by duplicating thenselves... as if you stood in front of a mirror and your image became alive
The "Technical" term for this would be asexual reproduction.
How do you intend to introduce your silicon based life-forms The People? Are you going to tell your PC's or let them figure out that they are silicon-based? If you do so it would seem to scientific for Dark Sun. If it were me I wouldn't say anything about what these new monsters are composed of. You could always have the PC's think that it's something that is alive but not alive like us (carbon-based lifeforms).
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
If it were me I wouldn't say anything about what these new monsters are composed of. You could always have the PC's think that it's something that is alive but not alive like us (carbon-based lifeforms).
Great Idea!!
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
How do you intend to introduce your silicon based life-forms The People? Are you going to tell your PC's or let them figure out that they are silicon-based? If you do so it would seem to scientific for Dark Sun.
I just love to let all my players guessing, only to reveal the truth when they acctually stop to do a research (magically or not, but usually too late.... hehehe). The suspense is an awesome tool for the DMs. Just imagine, to instigate the primorodial "fear of the unknown".
Am I Evil?( - Metallica)
How do you intend to introduce your silicon based life-forms The People? Are you going to tell your PC's or let them figure out that they are silicon-based? If you do so it would seem to scientific for Dark Sun. If it were me I wouldn't say anything about what these new monsters are composed of. You could always have the PC's think that it's something that is alive but not alive like us (carbon-based lifeforms).
I'm using the concept of silicon based life as a starting block to build an entierly diferent ecosystem. These creatures are alive, but they are composed diferently when compared to the standard creatures on Athas. I'm effectivley trying to create something to populate the equatorial reigons of Athas, without resorting to lizart people and fire elementals. These are something compleetly diferent and alien to the PCs and Tablelanders.
As such, the fact that thy are Silicon-based means virtually nothing. the importantce is in their Otherness and strangeness (Inedible, non-psionic, mind-dead, undefilable).
Am I Evil?( - Metallica)
*CoughCoughLawyer*
lol
I found out just yesterday that Silicon-Dioxide is sand (call me stupid). Silicon Dioxide in it's pure state is white, or possibly clear. Welcome to the stark white wastelands of the equator.