Dragonlance and Anime - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dragonlance and Anime

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
baron_the_curse
Jul 27, 2004 3:28:46 After perusing through what seemed an endless sea of Dragonlance anime-style fan art at Dragonlance.com I have to wonder what is it about Dragonlance that makes these artist think it lends itself well to anime. Record of Lodoss War notwithstanding.

I grew up with AD&D Dragonlance with the classical Elmore artwork, and watching anime series from the original Macross (and for those Macross fans you have to watch Macross Zero) to movies like Akira and Project A-KO. However, in my mind I never saw Dragonlance as an anime, I love both, but for very different reasons.

I would have been sourly disappointed if the “Legend of Human” comic came out as a hyped Dragonlance Manga.

I just think genre crossing should make sense, such as in the upcoming AVP. We have a subtle, suggestion of both universe being one in Predator 2. And of course the comic book.

Anyway, I'm not knocking the artwork in Dragonlance.com or the artists. There are some very, very nice pieces, I'm just curious as to why the drawings are so influenced by Manga.
#2
Wizardman
Jul 27, 2004 4:53:30 Manga and Anime have traditionally been lumped together with Sci-Fi/Fantasy (who were themselves lumped together), so many fantasy fans are manga fans and vice versa.

Also, you should consider the ages of the artists. You 'grew up' with Elmore, so you're probably in your late twenties or early thirties. Many of these artists are in their teens or early twenties. Anime is much more mainstream now than it was then, so these people grew up with it. Also, there is a multiplicity of books teaching people how to draw manga style. With all this being so, it's no wonder many young artists are heavily influenced by manga, especially fantasy artists.
#3
true_blue
Jul 27, 2004 5:06:25 Yea thats actually my biggest gripe about dragonlance.com. I know that this really isnt a big deal and in the grand scheme of things it doesnt affect much, but everytime I go there just seeing some of the art kind of makes me cringe. Kind of makes me not want to go there soemtimes =\. That kind of art was also found in Planescape and Dark Sun sometimes. For some reason I just don't like it. It might be like Wizardman said and I grew up with Elmore, but he is my favorite.

I know lots of people debate endlessly what is "better" dragonlance art, but pretty much everything else I like or can stand. The anime just bothers me. *shrug* but if thats the biggest gripe, then oh well...thats not bad heh.
#4
cam_banks
Jul 27, 2004 5:49:31 Anime/manga isn't a genre, it's a style. Much of Japanese popular entertaintment is produced as manga or anime when it isn't live-action or photographic, and it carries no specific genre traits with it. It's understandable that you might not like the style being used for Dragonlance, but saying they don't mix is like saying you don't like the comic book adaptation of "Legend of Huma" because it's being expressed as a comic book.

I appreciate film or comics in that style, but what matters most is the content and the quality of the work. An amateur depiction of Sturm Brightblade is just as bad when it's drawn manga-style than when it's drawn like a 1980's Marvel comic character. an animated Dragonlance would look pretty damn fantastic if the folks who produced it were good at their job, whether they're a Japanese anime studio or DreamWorks.

Cheers,
Cam
#5
true_blue
Jul 27, 2004 6:20:29 True, the art isn't what ultimately makes the story. But it does help depict a lot of things and I think adds a lot to the storyline. My favorite art piece by far is Sturm's Death, and I always have to stare at it for a little whenever I see it. I like a lot of pieces of art from Dragonlance, but that one just catches my eye for a variety of reasons. I plan on ordering a copy from Elmore's website sometime in the near future.

I dunno, for some reason anime, or whatever you want to call it (I sometimes call it "so-called modern" because it seems nowadays everyone draws somewhat like that, just doesnt draw me as much. It seems to be popular so maybe a couple of us are the minority more than the majority. Hey it happens, as I said before if thats the worse I get out of Dragonlance products than I count myself lucky.

But as I said before, Art may not make the story, but it sure does enhance it. And this is why it is important to me.
#6
baron_the_curse
Jul 27, 2004 13:03:18
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Anime/manga isn't a genre

Cheers,
Cam

Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all.
#7
cam_banks
Jul 27, 2004 13:30:44
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all.

There's nothing else quite like Disney's style of animation, either. That doesn't make it a genre in and of itself. The style lends it a great deal of recognition here in the west, but in Japan they wouldn't see anything particularly exotic or "beyond typical" in it.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 13:33:02
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all.

I agree.
no normal sci-fi/fantasy/drama movie/seires can be like anime (for bad or good)
#9
theredrobedwizard
Jul 27, 2004 14:17:46 I, being the voice of dissent in this party, would just like to say that the reason I didn't pick up Dragonlance earlier than I did was because the art turned me off. I HATE Elmore's art with a passion. I'm sure he's a great guy, but I hate his style.

I for one, like the way the art is done in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Same for most of the AoM book (except for a few [Solamnic Auxilliary Mage and that stupid old man in the blue robe come to mind]).

For me: Cheezy 80s style DL < Stylish DL.

-TRRW
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 15:47:51
Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard
I, being the voice of dissent in this party, would just like to say that the reason I didn't pick up Dragonlance earlier than I did was because the art turned me off. I HATE Elmore's art with a passion. I'm sure he's a great guy, but I hate his style.

I for one, like the way the art is done in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Same for most of the AoM book (except for a few [Solamnic Auxilliary Mage and that stupid old man in the blue robe come to mind]).

For me: Cheezy 80s style DL < Stylish DL.

-TRRW

You are uniqe!!! :D
#11
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 16:30:42 No...he isnt unique among fans of DL...

I know that I also am not, as there are plenty of DL fans who enjoyed Larry Elmore's (and the various other artists who have worked on DL in the past as well) take on DL......myself and many others that I know find that the newer, more realistic, epic take on DL's art is much more agreeable....

However the most important thing to keep in mind about art is that it is totally subjective.....you will never be able to accurately guage the quality of any given piece, nor be able to guage any sort of customer approval of it because the opinions on the pieces are so diverse.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 17:43:02 I have seen many of the same pictures. And I think the actually fit DL very well. If there were to be a DL movie I think that the anime style would fit very well. But I did grow up with the style sort of, so that is probably why I like it. I have seen some of Elmores work, and no offense to the man, but I do not like it.
#13
baron_the_curse
Jul 27, 2004 20:25:10
Originally posted by Galeros
I have seen many of the same pictures. And I think the actually fit DL very well. If there were to be a DL movie I think that the anime style would fit very well. But I did grow up with the style sort of, so that is probably why I like it. I have seen some of Elmores work, and no offense to the man, but I do not like it.

Many years ago I remember standing at a local bookstore on my way home from middle school staring at the covers of two books, Darkwalker on Monnshae and Dragons of Autumn Twilight. At the time I was not a gamer so there was no preference factor of Dragonlance over Forgotten Realms or vice versa. These names meant nothing to me. Since the story description of both books where compelling I finally settle on the cover. Elmore vs. Keith. The compelling, stunning characterization Elmore brought to Tanis, Sturm, and Goldmoon sold me.

Today I’m still a big fan of the classic artists and I have to admit I prefer Keith Parkinson style to Elmore’s. I’m also a big fan of Douglas Niles and ended up reading The Moonshae Trilogy as well. But it was the artwork that sold me at the time and I to this day have not seen better covers for the Chronicles or Legend trilogies than Elmore’s first versions. Artwork is very important in this medium and I am very please with the direction of Matt Stawicki, Ron Spencer, Jason Engle, Jennifer Meyer and the rest of assemble artist that are bringing live to 3.5 Dragonlance.

Dragonlance is a romantic setting with high fantasy visuals reminiscence of Western fantasy classics. That alone I think is why I’m not impressed with the heavy anime-style Dragonlance artwork I’ve seen and would not like to see the setting made into an anime series. No doubt it would look great, all you need is a talented individual like Kenji Kamiyama or Hayao Miyazaki, but it won’t really capture the essence of Dragonlance. I respect your opinion Galeros, but to me Dragonlance will always be a great Western classic and I just can't see any Asian style of artwork capture it the same way.
#14
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 21:30:20 Current fans or possible newcomers to Dragonlance will think in the "Lord of the Rings" venu rather then anime/manga when they discover DL.

So don't panic about DL being Manganized. Also as someone who likes anime/manga and have so since the late 80's I can tell you I don't see DL as that visual style.
#15
Dragonhelm
Jul 27, 2004 23:36:25 I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D
#16
Wizardman
Jul 28, 2004 0:58:57
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D

Heh. Maybe Kaede can get one of those sets of prayer beads around Raistlin's neck! But who would be the wielder, and what would the phrase be?

Raistlin: Now I will destroy you, you insolent dog-demon!
Caramon: Raist!
(Raistlin crashes to the ground)
Caramon: Sorry, Raist!
(Raistlin does it again)
Raistlin: Caramon!!!
#17
baron_the_curse
Jul 28, 2004 1:01:08
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D

You know that series is still running in Japan. It has 150 episodes up to date and three movies!

And for the record Inuyasha's Windscar has nothing on Raistlin's magic. He'll confuse him with simple parlor tricks then blast him with some uber-meterite spell. Or he'll just go, sit, boy, sit!!
#18
theredrobedwizard
Jul 29, 2004 7:39:51
Heh. Maybe Kaede can get one of those sets of prayer beads around Raistlin's neck! But who would be the wielder, and what would the phrase be?

Raistlin: Now I will destroy you, you insolent dog-demon!
Caramon: Raist!
(Raistlin crashes to the ground)
Caramon: Sorry, Raist!
(Raistlin does it again)
Raistlin: Caramon!!!

Actually, I think the phrase would be "Look Raist, bunnies."

-TRRW

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 baron_the_curse Jul 27, 2004 3:28:46	After perusing through what seemed an endless sea of Dragonlance anime-style fan art at Dragonlance.com I have to wonder what is it about Dragonlance that makes these artist think it lends itself well to anime. Record of Lodoss War notwithstanding. I grew up with AD&D Dragonlance with the classical Elmore artwork, and watching anime series from the original Macross (and for those Macross fans you have to watch Macross Zero) to movies like Akira and Project A-KO. However, in my mind I never saw Dragonlance as an anime, I love both, but for very different reasons. I would have been sourly disappointed if the “Legend of Human” comic came out as a hyped Dragonlance Manga. I just think genre crossing should make sense, such as in the upcoming AVP. We have a subtle, suggestion of both universe being one in Predator 2. And of course the comic book. Anyway, I'm not knocking the artwork in Dragonlance.com or the artists. There are some very, very nice pieces, I'm just curious as to why the drawings are so influenced by Manga.
#2 Wizardman Jul 27, 2004 4:53:30	Manga and Anime have traditionally been lumped together with Sci-Fi/Fantasy (who were themselves lumped together), so many fantasy fans are manga fans and vice versa. Also, you should consider the ages of the artists. You 'grew up' with Elmore, so you're probably in your late twenties or early thirties. Many of these artists are in their teens or early twenties. Anime is much more mainstream now than it was then, so these people grew up with it. Also, there is a multiplicity of books teaching people how to draw manga style. With all this being so, it's no wonder many young artists are heavily influenced by manga, especially fantasy artists.
#3 true_blue Jul 27, 2004 5:06:25	Yea thats actually my biggest gripe about dragonlance.com. I know that this really isnt a big deal and in the grand scheme of things it doesnt affect much, but everytime I go there just seeing some of the art kind of makes me cringe. Kind of makes me not want to go there soemtimes =\. That kind of art was also found in Planescape and Dark Sun sometimes. For some reason I just don't like it. It might be like Wizardman said and I grew up with Elmore, but he is my favorite. I know lots of people debate endlessly what is "better" dragonlance art, but pretty much everything else I like or can stand. The anime just bothers me. shrug but if thats the biggest gripe, then oh well...thats not bad heh.
#4 cam_banks Jul 27, 2004 5:49:31	Anime/manga isn't a genre, it's a style. Much of Japanese popular entertaintment is produced as manga or anime when it isn't live-action or photographic, and it carries no specific genre traits with it. It's understandable that you might not like the style being used for Dragonlance, but saying they don't mix is like saying you don't like the comic book adaptation of "Legend of Huma" because it's being expressed as a comic book. I appreciate film or comics in that style, but what matters most is the content and the quality of the work. An amateur depiction of Sturm Brightblade is just as bad when it's drawn manga-style than when it's drawn like a 1980's Marvel comic character. an animated Dragonlance would look pretty damn fantastic if the folks who produced it were good at their job, whether they're a Japanese anime studio or DreamWorks. Cheers, Cam
#5 true_blue Jul 27, 2004 6:20:29	True, the art isn't what ultimately makes the story. But it does help depict a lot of things and I think adds a lot to the storyline. My favorite art piece by far is Sturm's Death, and I always have to stare at it for a little whenever I see it. I like a lot of pieces of art from Dragonlance, but that one just catches my eye for a variety of reasons. I plan on ordering a copy from Elmore's website sometime in the near future. I dunno, for some reason anime, or whatever you want to call it (I sometimes call it "so-called modern" because it seems nowadays everyone draws somewhat like that, just doesnt draw me as much. It seems to be popular so maybe a couple of us are the minority more than the majority. Hey it happens, as I said before if thats the worse I get out of Dragonlance products than I count myself lucky. But as I said before, Art may not make the story, but it sure does enhance it. And this is why it is important to me.
#6 baron_the_curse Jul 27, 2004 13:03:18	Originally posted by Cam Banks Anime/manga isn't a genre Cheers, Cam Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all.
#7 cam_banks Jul 27, 2004 13:30:44	Originally posted by Baron the Curse Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all. There's nothing else quite like Disney's style of animation, either. That doesn't make it a genre in and of itself. The style lends it a great deal of recognition here in the west, but in Japan they wouldn't see anything particularly exotic or "beyond typical" in it. Cheers, Cam
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 13:33:02	Originally posted by Baron the Curse Are you sure?? Some Anime/Manga go beyond your typical sci-fi/fantasy/drama stories. At this point I think anime is it's own genre. There is nothing else like it after all. I agree. no normal sci-fi/fantasy/drama movie/seires can be like anime (for bad or good)
#9 theredrobedwizard Jul 27, 2004 14:17:46	I, being the voice of dissent in this party, would just like to say that the reason I didn't pick up Dragonlance earlier than I did was because the art turned me off. I HATE Elmore's art with a passion. I'm sure he's a great guy, but I hate his style. I for one, like the way the art is done in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Same for most of the AoM book (except for a few [Solamnic Auxilliary Mage and that stupid old man in the blue robe come to mind]). For me: Cheezy 80s style DL < Stylish DL. -TRRW
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 15:47:51	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard I, being the voice of dissent in this party, would just like to say that the reason I didn't pick up Dragonlance earlier than I did was because the art turned me off. I HATE Elmore's art with a passion. I'm sure he's a great guy, but I hate his style. I for one, like the way the art is done in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Same for most of the AoM book (except for a few [Solamnic Auxilliary Mage and that stupid old man in the blue robe come to mind]). For me: Cheezy 80s style DL < Stylish DL. -TRRW You are uniqe!!! :D
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 16:30:42	No...he isnt unique among fans of DL... I know that I also am not, as there are plenty of DL fans who enjoyed Larry Elmore's (and the various other artists who have worked on DL in the past as well) take on DL......myself and many others that I know find that the newer, more realistic, epic take on DL's art is much more agreeable.... However the most important thing to keep in mind about art is that it is totally subjective.....you will never be able to accurately guage the quality of any given piece, nor be able to guage any sort of customer approval of it because the opinions on the pieces are so diverse.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 17:43:02	I have seen many of the same pictures. And I think the actually fit DL very well. If there were to be a DL movie I think that the anime style would fit very well. But I did grow up with the style sort of, so that is probably why I like it. I have seen some of Elmores work, and no offense to the man, but I do not like it.
#13 baron_the_curse Jul 27, 2004 20:25:10	Originally posted by Galeros I have seen many of the same pictures. And I think the actually fit DL very well. If there were to be a DL movie I think that the anime style would fit very well. But I did grow up with the style sort of, so that is probably why I like it. I have seen some of Elmores work, and no offense to the man, but I do not like it. Many years ago I remember standing at a local bookstore on my way home from middle school staring at the covers of two books, Darkwalker on Monnshae and Dragons of Autumn Twilight. At the time I was not a gamer so there was no preference factor of Dragonlance over Forgotten Realms or vice versa. These names meant nothing to me. Since the story description of both books where compelling I finally settle on the cover. Elmore vs. Keith. The compelling, stunning characterization Elmore brought to Tanis, Sturm, and Goldmoon sold me. Today I’m still a big fan of the classic artists and I have to admit I prefer Keith Parkinson style to Elmore’s. I’m also a big fan of Douglas Niles and ended up reading The Moonshae Trilogy as well. But it was the artwork that sold me at the time and I to this day have not seen better covers for the Chronicles or Legend trilogies than Elmore’s first versions. Artwork is very important in this medium and I am very please with the direction of Matt Stawicki, Ron Spencer, Jason Engle, Jennifer Meyer and the rest of assemble artist that are bringing live to 3.5 Dragonlance. Dragonlance is a romantic setting with high fantasy visuals reminiscence of Western fantasy classics. That alone I think is why I’m not impressed with the heavy anime-style Dragonlance artwork I’ve seen and would not like to see the setting made into an anime series. No doubt it would look great, all you need is a talented individual like Kenji Kamiyama or Hayao Miyazaki, but it won’t really capture the essence of Dragonlance. I respect your opinion Galeros, but to me Dragonlance will always be a great Western classic and I just can't see any Asian style of artwork capture it the same way.
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 21:30:20	Current fans or possible newcomers to Dragonlance will think in the "Lord of the Rings" venu rather then anime/manga when they discover DL. So don't panic about DL being Manganized. Also as someone who likes anime/manga and have so since the late 80's I can tell you I don't see DL as that visual style.
#15 Dragonhelm Jul 27, 2004 23:36:25	I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D
#16 Wizardman Jul 28, 2004 0:58:57	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D Heh. Maybe Kaede can get one of those sets of prayer beads around Raistlin's neck! But who would be the wielder, and what would the phrase be? Raistlin: Now I will destroy you, you insolent dog-demon! Caramon: Raist! (Raistlin crashes to the ground) Caramon: Sorry, Raist! (Raistlin does it again) Raistlin: Caramon!!!
#17 baron_the_curse Jul 28, 2004 1:01:08	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I'm just waiting to see a red robed Raistlin go toe-to-toe with Inuyasha. :D You know that series is still running in Japan. It has 150 episodes up to date and three movies! And for the record Inuyasha's Windscar has nothing on Raistlin's magic. He'll confuse him with simple parlor tricks then blast him with some uber-meterite spell. Or he'll just go, sit, boy, sit!!
#18 theredrobedwizard Jul 29, 2004 7:39:51	Heh. Maybe Kaede can get one of those sets of prayer beads around Raistlin's neck! But who would be the wielder, and what would the phrase be? Raistlin: Now I will destroy you, you insolent dog-demon! Caramon: Raist! (Raistlin crashes to the ground) Caramon: Sorry, Raist! (Raistlin does it again) Raistlin: Caramon!!! Actually, I think the phrase would be "Look Raist, bunnies." -TRRW