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American Pantheons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tebryn14
Jul 28, 2004 10:45:45 My question pertains to the North American Indian Pantheon, and the Aztec Pantheon. My first question is, are they both Planar pantheons, meant for use in any standard Great Wheel campaign (in 2e, of course)? Second, what relationship, if any, does the Aztec Pantheon share with the Maztican Pantheon on Toril? Thank you.
#2
gray_richardson
Jul 28, 2004 23:25:59 I looked in my On Hallowed Ground and did not find any reference to either the North American Indian pantheon or the Aztec pantheon. I am not sure if they hung out on the Great Wheel and I don't think they were worshipped anywhere on Greyhawk or any of the other published TSR worlds. I am not aware of anyplace they are mentioned in a Planescape product (although I can't rule it out, there are others on this board with more encyclopedic PS knowledge that could tell you better yay or nay.)

They both did have write-ups in the Deities and Demigods book and I am sure you could easily use them in any campaign, just put them wherever you think appropriate. They are both very cool pantheons.

As to your second question, I think the Mazitican gods were only Aztec in flavor--inspired by but not really a direct copy of the Aztec deities.

Qotal is definitely an analog for Quetzalcoatl. None of the other Maztican gods though strike me as corresponding directly to an Aztec counterpart.

I am not aware of any mention in the Maztica books that the Maztican gods are related to or have ties in any way with the Aztec mythos either by way of being interloper refugees from the Aztec pantheon or having friendships or diplomatic relations with Aztec gods from another prime world. I could be wrong but I just don't think there is any connection other than the writers were going for an Aztec style campaign setting when they wrote the books.
#3
rikutatis
Jul 28, 2004 23:50:28 The Aztec Pantheon is mentioned in the basic PS campaign setting boxed set. In 'The Powers by Plane' list, they're said to reside in the Prime Material.

I don't know about the North American Indian pantheon, sorry.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2004 0:00:45 Depending on which indian pantheon you're talking about, the spirits could be in any of a lot of planes. For the most part, you can't go wrong with putting them in arborea and the beastlands (originally known as "the happy hunting grounds", directly from, i think, the eastern woodlands tribes, but it might be plains tribes). Of course, the various nefarious deities and evil spirits would often fit quite well into the grey waste, carceri, and gehenna, as you see fit. The majority, however, should be on the prime material.
#5
sildatorak
Jul 29, 2004 0:39:28 You can find the info on them in the 2e Legends and Lore, I believe, but it doesn't have squat about where they fit in D&D cosmology. I think the Aztec Pantheon gets mentioned in some PS stuff, but it might have been something on the Mimir.

The Native American spirit traditions fit in most closely with the flavor of the Shaman class from 2e, so I think that they are all going to dwell in the spirit realm which strikes me as being a lot like the border ethereal.
#6
Ornum
Jul 29, 2004 3:36:30 The American Indian pantheon, as defined by the 2nd edition Legends and Lore book, is also mentioned on the Powers By Plane map from the Planescape Campaign Setting. Look under the "Demiplane" heading, they are listed as the Amerindian Pantheon. As such, I'd say that if the "Spirit World" from the MotP is changed to a demiplane in the Ethereal instead of a variant transitive plane, it would be where the pantheon would be located.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 16:12:44
Originally posted by Tebryn14
My question pertains to the North American Indian Pantheon, and the Aztec Pantheon. My first question is, are they both Planar pantheons, meant for use in any standard Great Wheel campaign (in 2e, of course)? Second, what relationship, if any, does the Aztec Pantheon share with the Maztican Pantheon on Toril? Thank you.

According to the Planescape boxed set, the North American Indian pantheon dwell in demiplanes of the ethereal, known as the Upper and and Lower Worlds. The Aztec pantheon live on the Prime Material plane, apparently in the planets of the solar system.

Zaltec is an amalgam of Huitzilopochlti and Tezcatlipoca. Qotal is largely based on Quetzalcoatl, although he also possesses some of the attributes of Huitzilopochtli.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 2:23:12 in 1e, the Aztec pantheon lived in a distant alternate prime, don't recall any native american pantheons in the PS box set, must check when it isn't 3:30am.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tebryn14 Jul 28, 2004 10:45:45	My question pertains to the North American Indian Pantheon, and the Aztec Pantheon. My first question is, are they both Planar pantheons, meant for use in any standard Great Wheel campaign (in 2e, of course)? Second, what relationship, if any, does the Aztec Pantheon share with the Maztican Pantheon on Toril? Thank you.
#2 gray_richardson Jul 28, 2004 23:25:59	I looked in my On Hallowed Ground and did not find any reference to either the North American Indian pantheon or the Aztec pantheon. I am not sure if they hung out on the Great Wheel and I don't think they were worshipped anywhere on Greyhawk or any of the other published TSR worlds. I am not aware of anyplace they are mentioned in a Planescape product (although I can't rule it out, there are others on this board with more encyclopedic PS knowledge that could tell you better yay or nay.) They both did have write-ups in the Deities and Demigods book and I am sure you could easily use them in any campaign, just put them wherever you think appropriate. They are both very cool pantheons. As to your second question, I think the Mazitican gods were only Aztec in flavor--inspired by but not really a direct copy of the Aztec deities. Qotal is definitely an analog for Quetzalcoatl. None of the other Maztican gods though strike me as corresponding directly to an Aztec counterpart. I am not aware of any mention in the Maztica books that the Maztican gods are related to or have ties in any way with the Aztec mythos either by way of being interloper refugees from the Aztec pantheon or having friendships or diplomatic relations with Aztec gods from another prime world. I could be wrong but I just don't think there is any connection other than the writers were going for an Aztec style campaign setting when they wrote the books.
#3 rikutatis Jul 28, 2004 23:50:28	The Aztec Pantheon is mentioned in the basic PS campaign setting boxed set. In 'The Powers by Plane' list, they're said to reside in the Prime Material. I don't know about the North American Indian pantheon, sorry.
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2004 0:00:45	Depending on which indian pantheon you're talking about, the spirits could be in any of a lot of planes. For the most part, you can't go wrong with putting them in arborea and the beastlands (originally known as "the happy hunting grounds", directly from, i think, the eastern woodlands tribes, but it might be plains tribes). Of course, the various nefarious deities and evil spirits would often fit quite well into the grey waste, carceri, and gehenna, as you see fit. The majority, however, should be on the prime material.
#5 sildatorak Jul 29, 2004 0:39:28	You can find the info on them in the 2e Legends and Lore, I believe, but it doesn't have squat about where they fit in D&D cosmology. I think the Aztec Pantheon gets mentioned in some PS stuff, but it might have been something on the Mimir. The Native American spirit traditions fit in most closely with the flavor of the Shaman class from 2e, so I think that they are all going to dwell in the spirit realm which strikes me as being a lot like the border ethereal.
#6 Ornum Jul 29, 2004 3:36:30	The American Indian pantheon, as defined by the 2nd edition Legends and Lore book, is also mentioned on the Powers By Plane map from the Planescape Campaign Setting. Look under the "Demiplane" heading, they are listed as the Amerindian Pantheon. As such, I'd say that if the "Spirit World" from the MotP is changed to a demiplane in the Ethereal instead of a variant transitive plane, it would be where the pantheon would be located.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 16:12:44	Originally posted by Tebryn14 My question pertains to the North American Indian Pantheon, and the Aztec Pantheon. My first question is, are they both Planar pantheons, meant for use in any standard Great Wheel campaign (in 2e, of course)? Second, what relationship, if any, does the Aztec Pantheon share with the Maztican Pantheon on Toril? Thank you. According to the Planescape boxed set, the North American Indian pantheon dwell in demiplanes of the ethereal, known as the Upper and and Lower Worlds. The Aztec pantheon live on the Prime Material plane, apparently in the planets of the solar system. Zaltec is an amalgam of Huitzilopochlti and Tezcatlipoca. Qotal is largely based on Quetzalcoatl, although he also possesses some of the attributes of Huitzilopochtli.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 2:23:12	in 1e, the Aztec pantheon lived in a distant alternate prime, don't recall any native american pantheons in the PS box set, must check when it isn't 3:30am.