fizban the renagade - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

fizban the renagade

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 17:52:25 I just finished reading the chronicals and I realized that though he may be casting fireballs he has never worn any official tower robes leading to the fact that Fizban is a renagade.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 17:55:11 I never thought about that. You maybe onto something there Zook. Just because he is who he is doesnt mean that he has to follow the rules. He is good isnt he? And he has to follow the rules. I think that he might then be a renegade?
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 18:03:29 Guys I know you know this but I´m gonna say it anyway: FIZBAN´S A GOD!! I don´t really think the renegade thingy applies to him...but hey that´s just me

Ravenmantle
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 18:15:11 It is true that Fizban is who he is, however isnt he bound to follow the rules in virtue of who and what he is?
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 18:24:41 Umm no...I really don´t think the same rules apply to the manifestations of the gods as they do to mortal wizards. As I see it the WoHS were created in part as a means to control the magic given to mortals by the three gods of magic (which is another reason as to why renegades are considered dangerous)...it´s my understanding that the gods are more than capable of controlling magic.

An admittedly ridiculous theory could be that Fizban wielded divine magic (being a manifestation of the P-man himself), creating effects mimicking those of the arcane arts...yeah I know...ridiculous ;)

Ravenmantle
#6
caeruleus
Jul 30, 2004 19:38:30 Sure, Fizban may not have had to follow the rules, but you'd think that some of the WoHS would have been after him. He didn't hide the fact that he was a wizard.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 19:47:39 I agree. The WoHS, not knowing who Fizban really was, might have sent some renegade hunters (Takhisis bless the ToHS! ;) )after him.

But with all the resources at their disposal, is it not possible that the WoHS might know that "there´s something extraordinary about this fellow..."? I mean they must´ve hurled all kinds of divination magic at the poor old man, and discovered the truth (or as close to the truth as possible) about him. If indeed that is the case then I return to my original statement. Gods don´t play by the same rules as mortals...hence Fizban would not be considered a renegade. I rest my case (and frantically dodge the rotten tomatoes!)

Ravenmantle

Edit: caeruleus get your own avatar! ;)
#8
talinthas
Jul 30, 2004 20:07:05 i would love to see the novel where the three moons try to tell Paladine that he needs to take the Test =)
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 20:13:09 Hehe should be interesting reading!

Ravenmantle
#10
karui_kage
Jul 30, 2004 21:08:47 Um, wasn't he always described as wearing white robes? Even in his introduction, which I just double checked, he was wearing them. In his picture in DLCS, he is wearing them.

Where did someone get the idea that he didn't wear the robes? Maybe he *did* take the test. They never said he did, but they never said he didn't.
#11
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 21:18:09 Well Fizban is so confused 90% of the time hes not a threat to the world like say Galan Dracos was. And it was Paladine in mortal from, Im sure Soli, Luni and Nui don't mind him weilding magic, ya know being the god of gods and all.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 21:50:53 IIRC Fizbans robes were always described as "mouse colored". Which indeed is what I have seen him wearing time and again in paintings. I tend to agree that the moon gods were probably aware that Fizban was a god in disguise as a wizard, henceforth kept him off the WoHS' respective radar. I had honestly hoped that Paladine would have chosen Fizban for his mortal form....that to me would have been entertaining and warm. I also would have liked to see the WoHS make him take the test as a mortal...although I daresay he might actually fail it if he wasnt able to recall his spells....
#13
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 1:49:46 Now I don't mind the fact that Fizban may or may not have been a renegade. The arguement could be that he was in fact a white robe. His robes were mousy colored, basically gray, which is dirty or well-travelled white. Then there's the fact that Raistlin didn't question Fizban's casting of "illegal" spells for a non-robe and he didn't report Fizban to any authorities, that we knew of. Of course Fizban did "kill" himself trying to cast featherfall so there wouldn't have been any need to report him. Personally I think the moon's would have taken acute interest of someone nearly blowing up their "weapon" (Raistlin).
#14
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 8:33:21 Hmmm this debate on the nuances of the colors on Fizban´s robes could go on all day so let´s just make it short...

If his robes were nothing but a well-traveled white, then he was probably considered a member of the WoHS by Raistlin and other wizards he might have encountered.

If his colors were indeed gray (as is my interpretation) then he would technically be considered a renegade. But then the whole god-thing enters the scene and so I once again return to my earlier posts.

And as for Raistlin not reporting (the renegade) Fizban..well I don´t really think Raist cared...

Ravenmantle
#15
daedavias_dup
Jul 31, 2004 9:11:00
Originally posted by talinthas
i would love to see the novel where the three moons try to tell Paladine that he needs to take the Test =)

Yeah, until he tells Solinari to go to his room...:D
#16
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 16:39:51 Paladine is Lawful good isnt he? The laws of magic are valid arent they? Then why wouldnt he follow the rules. Maybe because he wanted to be like Gandalf the Grey?
#17
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 16:46:33 Because the rules set down by the WoHS (guided by the three gods of magic) are meant for mortals who are talented in the arcane arts - not for gods. Yes he is lawful good but he is also a deity. I simply cannot see why the rules of mortals should apply to gods...I would certainly be insulted (and very very shocked!) if ants started pushing me around, giving me orders (and I do indeed think the comparison is relevant).

Ravenmantle
#18
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 18:12:01 I agree with this.....simply because he is a higher power. Fizban would no have been held by the gods of magic to take the test...however, that doesnt account for mortal wizards who would question the befuddled mage. I think it would be interesting to see the renegade hunter who approached him...."Sir, you are using magic without proper authority to do so....I insist you accompany me to the Tower of Wayreth and take the Test of High Sorcery"

I see two possible resposes...

1) "No thanks.....Im covered....really."

2)
#19
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 18:18:44 At which point the renegade hunter falls to the ground, laughing uncontrollably, much like the millions who have read Chronicles

Ravenmantle
#20
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 22:24:30 Maybe a better answer given from him would be: Fizban, where? I thought I knew someone by that name."
#21
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2004 22:27:01 you need a spell fireball fireball fireball
#22
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 9:19:23 I recall that in Soulforge, the wizard ( don't recall the name ^^ ) who help Raistlin also wear a GREY robe and they say that the GREY robe is for the wisard that are not enough powerful to take the test ( so not enough powerful to be dangerous. ) So maybe WoHS have seen that Fizban doesn't recall his spell so they let it wear the GREY robe.

PS : I'm really not sure of the veracity of what i said.
#23
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 9:22:39 Hehe well it would seem like a good argument...but still. Fizban did manage to conjure forth a fireball, which paints a picture of a man very capbale of wielding High Sorcery - old age or not.

Ravenmantle
#24
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 9:38:52 I'd already think of that, Ravenmantle, i've two conclusions :

1- Fizban disguise himself as a Grey robe
2- The authors didn't care that fireball was an high level spell

Does someone know the name of the wizard i was talking about??? I know he is an Herborist and that his father was a powerfull wizard but i don't recall his name .
#25
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 9:53:23 You are speaking of Lemuel the herbalist....who wasnt a mage in the slightest.....his father was however. Lemuel was just not adept with the skill and didnt have enough interest in it....he'd rather have been in his garden.

Bottom line though.....Fizban was a god in disguise, and likely it didnt matter at all if he was a renegade or not......the WoHS would have had fun forcing Paladine into the Test.....Not to mention the fact that the moon gods probably wouldnt have made him take it
#26
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 9:58:18 Very true papytofu! But these conclusions are flawed.

1) If Fizban is indeed disguised as a low-level wizard, the use of a fireball would shatter that disguise, revealing his true power...

2) As I understand things Margaret and Tracy are/were gamers themselves, and as such it would seem logical to incorporate some elements (such as magic) into the story...

Ravenmantle
#27
Matthew_L._Martin
Aug 01, 2004 11:24:25 Even casting fireball may not have meant a wizard had to have taken the Test. The Test underwent a lot of evolution in the early years of DL; in "The Test of the Twins", it's specifically mentioned as not required to practice magic, while by Legends, DLA, and "The Legacy", it was mandatory. Indeed, it wasn't until DLA that the level requirements were set down.

Matthew L. Martin
#28
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 11:44:35 Personally I don't care if Fizban is a renegade or not. By the rules, yes he would be considered to be. Does it really matter? Not in the least. As was stated above, Fizban is Paladine in "disquise". I believe he took many other forms as well. Wasn't he the stag for both Huma and Sturm. He's appeared to Vinas Solamnus as a warrior. It's just one of his many aspects, though by his own words, one of his favorites. My personal favorite was the dancing light spell that was afraid of the dark. That's one for the ages.
#29
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 11:47:16 Hehe ok I give up! The evidence is overwhelming Disguising himself as low-level might indeed work

I have one final argument though (or should I just let it rest?): Age. I see it as highly unlikely that a man Fizban´s age (we must assume the avatar is "old") would be a low-level wizard...at that age he would either have advanced in the Order of High Sorcery or have given up, realizing his lack of talent in the art arcana. You might argue that Fizban would be content wielding his magic at such a low level. I don´t buy it. He is Paladine´s avatar! Gods don´t just settle with low-level wizards.

Ravenmantle
#30
Matthew_L._Martin
Aug 01, 2004 12:53:56
Originally posted by Koranith
My personal favorite was the dancing light spell that was afraid of the dark. That's one for the ages.

I still say that the 'puffball' was actually a lantern archon. :-)

Matthew L. Martin
#31
daedavias_dup
Aug 01, 2004 13:05:11
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
I still say that the 'puffball' was actually a lantern archon. :-)

Matthew L. Martin

It would make sense, after all. Seeing as according to the DL DM Screen Paladine's celestial servants are archons.
#32
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2004 17:18:41 Even still, an archon that's afraid of the dark. That's just plain good writing.
#33
valharic
Aug 01, 2004 19:31:38 I believe it's the Grey Robes as described in DoAT. As for his wizardly status. I think you have 2 possiblities

1) The wizards realize who he is. Similar to how Raistlin sensed his power while in Toede's prison wagon. Therefore they're not going near him.

2) The fact that he's a God, I think he can make it possible that people don't even realize he's not part of the WoHS. He can just supress that thought at will.
#34
zombiegleemax
Aug 02, 2004 13:45:32 Did Gilthanas ever take the Test?
#35
zombiegleemax
Aug 02, 2004 14:17:44 No he did not. He was merely a dabbler, never really had it in him to make the commitment to magic and do so....

although I dont know what Gilthanas and whether he too the Test has anything to do with Fizban being a renegade...
#36
cam_banks
Aug 02, 2004 15:44:31
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
No he did not. He was merely a dabbler, never really had it in him to make the commitment to magic and do so....

I believe he did take the Test, but it was after the War of the Lance. He later turns to wild magic, like many others.

Cheers,
Cam
#37
zombiegleemax
Aug 02, 2004 19:08:08 Oh really? Thats pretty cool...Id like to find out what robe he got, although I assume it is white.

As far as the Fizban a renegade thing...no.....I dont think so....but yes...most likely....

By all the rules of the Conclave yes he was a renegade....but being who he was I assume that negates it.

Now if he chose to join the WoHS now as Valthonis.....then yes...he would need to take the test.
#38
quentingeorge
Aug 03, 2004 2:15:10 If it became a problem, I'm sure Solinari would give dear old dad honourary membership of the White Robes.
#39
zombiegleemax
Aug 03, 2004 7:35:35 Does it really matter anymore now that Paladine is no more. No Paladine=No Fizban=no scared light puffballs.
#40
zombiegleemax
Aug 06, 2004 15:20:40 I am not sure if there was any evidence that the White Stag was Paladine in disguise or not. I thought that we was just a deer that worked with the Forestmaster of DarkenWood.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 17:52:25	I just finished reading the chronicals and I realized that though he may be casting fireballs he has never worn any official tower robes leading to the fact that Fizban is a renagade.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 17:55:11	I never thought about that. You maybe onto something there Zook. Just because he is who he is doesnt mean that he has to follow the rules. He is good isnt he? And he has to follow the rules. I think that he might then be a renegade?
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 18:03:29	Guys I know you know this but I´m gonna say it anyway: FIZBAN´S A GOD!! I don´t really think the renegade thingy applies to him...but hey that´s just me Ravenmantle
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 18:15:11	It is true that Fizban is who he is, however isnt he bound to follow the rules in virtue of who and what he is?
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 18:24:41	Umm no...I really don´t think the same rules apply to the manifestations of the gods as they do to mortal wizards. As I see it the WoHS were created in part as a means to control the magic given to mortals by the three gods of magic (which is another reason as to why renegades are considered dangerous)...it´s my understanding that the gods are more than capable of controlling magic. An admittedly ridiculous theory could be that Fizban wielded divine magic (being a manifestation of the P-man himself), creating effects mimicking those of the arcane arts...yeah I know...ridiculous ;) Ravenmantle
#6 caeruleus Jul 30, 2004 19:38:30	Sure, Fizban may not have had to follow the rules, but you'd think that some of the WoHS would have been after him. He didn't hide the fact that he was a wizard.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 19:47:39	I agree. The WoHS, not knowing who Fizban really was, might have sent some renegade hunters (Takhisis bless the ToHS! ;) )after him. But with all the resources at their disposal, is it not possible that the WoHS might know that "there´s something extraordinary about this fellow..."? I mean they must´ve hurled all kinds of divination magic at the poor old man, and discovered the truth (or as close to the truth as possible) about him. If indeed that is the case then I return to my original statement. Gods don´t play by the same rules as mortals...hence Fizban would not be considered a renegade. I rest my case (and frantically dodge the rotten tomatoes!) Ravenmantle Edit: caeruleus get your own avatar! ;)
#8 talinthas Jul 30, 2004 20:07:05	i would love to see the novel where the three moons try to tell Paladine that he needs to take the Test =)
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 20:13:09	Hehe should be interesting reading! Ravenmantle
#10 karui_kage Jul 30, 2004 21:08:47	Um, wasn't he always described as wearing white robes? Even in his introduction, which I just double checked, he was wearing them. In his picture in DLCS, he is wearing them. Where did someone get the idea that he didn't wear the robes? Maybe he did take the test. They never said he did, but they never said he didn't.
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 21:18:09	Well Fizban is so confused 90% of the time hes not a threat to the world like say Galan Dracos was. And it was Paladine in mortal from, Im sure Soli, Luni and Nui don't mind him weilding magic, ya know being the god of gods and all.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 21:50:53	IIRC Fizbans robes were always described as "mouse colored". Which indeed is what I have seen him wearing time and again in paintings. I tend to agree that the moon gods were probably aware that Fizban was a god in disguise as a wizard, henceforth kept him off the WoHS' respective radar. I had honestly hoped that Paladine would have chosen Fizban for his mortal form....that to me would have been entertaining and warm. I also would have liked to see the WoHS make him take the test as a mortal...although I daresay he might actually fail it if he wasnt able to recall his spells....
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 1:49:46	Now I don't mind the fact that Fizban may or may not have been a renegade. The arguement could be that he was in fact a white robe. His robes were mousy colored, basically gray, which is dirty or well-travelled white. Then there's the fact that Raistlin didn't question Fizban's casting of "illegal" spells for a non-robe and he didn't report Fizban to any authorities, that we knew of. Of course Fizban did "kill" himself trying to cast featherfall so there wouldn't have been any need to report him. Personally I think the moon's would have taken acute interest of someone nearly blowing up their "weapon" (Raistlin).
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 8:33:21	Hmmm this debate on the nuances of the colors on Fizban´s robes could go on all day so let´s just make it short... If his robes were nothing but a well-traveled white, then he was probably considered a member of the WoHS by Raistlin and other wizards he might have encountered. If his colors were indeed gray (as is my interpretation) then he would technically be considered a renegade. But then the whole god-thing enters the scene and so I once again return to my earlier posts. And as for Raistlin not reporting (the renegade) Fizban..well I don´t really think Raist cared... Ravenmantle
#15 daedavias_dup Jul 31, 2004 9:11:00	Originally posted by talinthas i would love to see the novel where the three moons try to tell Paladine that he needs to take the Test =) Yeah, until he tells Solinari to go to his room...:D
#16 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 16:39:51	Paladine is Lawful good isnt he? The laws of magic are valid arent they? Then why wouldnt he follow the rules. Maybe because he wanted to be like Gandalf the Grey?
#17 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 16:46:33	Because the rules set down by the WoHS (guided by the three gods of magic) are meant for mortals who are talented in the arcane arts - not for gods. Yes he is lawful good but he is also a deity. I simply cannot see why the rules of mortals should apply to gods...I would certainly be insulted (and very very shocked!) if ants started pushing me around, giving me orders (and I do indeed think the comparison is relevant). Ravenmantle
#18 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 18:12:01	I agree with this.....simply because he is a higher power. Fizban would no have been held by the gods of magic to take the test...however, that doesnt account for mortal wizards who would question the befuddled mage. I think it would be interesting to see the renegade hunter who approached him...."Sir, you are using magic without proper authority to do so....I insist you accompany me to the Tower of Wayreth and take the Test of High Sorcery" I see two possible resposes... 1) "No thanks.....Im covered....really." 2)
#19 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 18:18:44	At which point the renegade hunter falls to the ground, laughing uncontrollably, much like the millions who have read Chronicles Ravenmantle
#20 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 22:24:30	Maybe a better answer given from him would be: Fizban, where? I thought I knew someone by that name."
#21 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2004 22:27:01	you need a spell fireball fireball fireball
#22 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 9:19:23	I recall that in Soulforge, the wizard ( don't recall the name ^^ ) who help Raistlin also wear a GREY robe and they say that the GREY robe is for the wisard that are not enough powerful to take the test ( so not enough powerful to be dangerous. ) So maybe WoHS have seen that Fizban doesn't recall his spell so they let it wear the GREY robe. PS : I'm really not sure of the veracity of what i said.
#23 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 9:22:39	Hehe well it would seem like a good argument...but still. Fizban did manage to conjure forth a fireball, which paints a picture of a man very capbale of wielding High Sorcery - old age or not. Ravenmantle
#24 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 9:38:52	I'd already think of that, Ravenmantle, i've two conclusions : 1- Fizban disguise himself as a Grey robe 2- The authors didn't care that fireball was an high level spell Does someone know the name of the wizard i was talking about??? I know he is an Herborist and that his father was a powerfull wizard but i don't recall his name .
#25 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 9:53:23	You are speaking of Lemuel the herbalist....who wasnt a mage in the slightest.....his father was however. Lemuel was just not adept with the skill and didnt have enough interest in it....he'd rather have been in his garden. Bottom line though.....Fizban was a god in disguise, and likely it didnt matter at all if he was a renegade or not......the WoHS would have had fun forcing Paladine into the Test.....Not to mention the fact that the moon gods probably wouldnt have made him take it
#26 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 9:58:18	Very true papytofu! But these conclusions are flawed. 1) If Fizban is indeed disguised as a low-level wizard, the use of a fireball would shatter that disguise, revealing his true power... 2) As I understand things Margaret and Tracy are/were gamers themselves, and as such it would seem logical to incorporate some elements (such as magic) into the story... Ravenmantle
#27 Matthew_L._Martin Aug 01, 2004 11:24:25	Even casting fireball may not have meant a wizard had to have taken the Test. The Test underwent a lot of evolution in the early years of DL; in "The Test of the Twins", it's specifically mentioned as not required to practice magic, while by Legends, DLA, and "The Legacy", it was mandatory. Indeed, it wasn't until DLA that the level requirements were set down. Matthew L. Martin
#28 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 11:44:35	Personally I don't care if Fizban is a renegade or not. By the rules, yes he would be considered to be. Does it really matter? Not in the least. As was stated above, Fizban is Paladine in "disquise". I believe he took many other forms as well. Wasn't he the stag for both Huma and Sturm. He's appeared to Vinas Solamnus as a warrior. It's just one of his many aspects, though by his own words, one of his favorites. My personal favorite was the dancing light spell that was afraid of the dark. That's one for the ages.
#29 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 11:47:16	Hehe ok I give up! The evidence is overwhelming Disguising himself as low-level might indeed work I have one final argument though (or should I just let it rest?): Age. I see it as highly unlikely that a man Fizban´s age (we must assume the avatar is "old") would be a low-level wizard...at that age he would either have advanced in the Order of High Sorcery or have given up, realizing his lack of talent in the art arcana. You might argue that Fizban would be content wielding his magic at such a low level. I don´t buy it. He is Paladine´s avatar! Gods don´t just settle with low-level wizards. Ravenmantle
#30 Matthew_L._Martin Aug 01, 2004 12:53:56	Originally posted by Koranith My personal favorite was the dancing light spell that was afraid of the dark. That's one for the ages. I still say that the 'puffball' was actually a lantern archon. :-) Matthew L. Martin
#31 daedavias_dup Aug 01, 2004 13:05:11	Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin I still say that the 'puffball' was actually a lantern archon. :-) Matthew L. Martin It would make sense, after all. Seeing as according to the DL DM Screen Paladine's celestial servants are archons.
#32 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2004 17:18:41	Even still, an archon that's afraid of the dark. That's just plain good writing.
#33 valharic Aug 01, 2004 19:31:38	I believe it's the Grey Robes as described in DoAT. As for his wizardly status. I think you have 2 possiblities 1) The wizards realize who he is. Similar to how Raistlin sensed his power while in Toede's prison wagon. Therefore they're not going near him. 2) The fact that he's a God, I think he can make it possible that people don't even realize he's not part of the WoHS. He can just supress that thought at will.
#34 zombiegleemax Aug 02, 2004 13:45:32	Did Gilthanas ever take the Test?
#35 zombiegleemax Aug 02, 2004 14:17:44	No he did not. He was merely a dabbler, never really had it in him to make the commitment to magic and do so.... although I dont know what Gilthanas and whether he too the Test has anything to do with Fizban being a renegade...
#36 cam_banks Aug 02, 2004 15:44:31	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst No he did not. He was merely a dabbler, never really had it in him to make the commitment to magic and do so.... I believe he did take the Test, but it was after the War of the Lance. He later turns to wild magic, like many others. Cheers, Cam
#37 zombiegleemax Aug 02, 2004 19:08:08	Oh really? Thats pretty cool...Id like to find out what robe he got, although I assume it is white. As far as the Fizban a renegade thing...no.....I dont think so....but yes...most likely.... By all the rules of the Conclave yes he was a renegade....but being who he was I assume that negates it. Now if he chose to join the WoHS now as Valthonis.....then yes...he would need to take the test.
#38 quentingeorge Aug 03, 2004 2:15:10	If it became a problem, I'm sure Solinari would give dear old dad honourary membership of the White Robes.
#39 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2004 7:35:35	Does it really matter anymore now that Paladine is no more. No Paladine=No Fizban=no scared light puffballs.
#40 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2004 15:20:40	I am not sure if there was any evidence that the White Stag was Paladine in disguise or not. I thought that we was just a deer that worked with the Forestmaster of DarkenWood.