Khur (or Khuri-Khan) at times, and dependant on source, would seem to be derived from both a Mongolian or Arabic model. On the one hand, we have separate bands of tribal folk renown for their horses and horsemanship who make use of the title of "khan" and have - in the past - united as a single force very similar to the Tuigan (Mongols) of FR. On the other hand, we have names and descriptions of Khurish characters bearing distinctly Arabic influences (specifically the cleric in Pashin [indeed, the very name Pashin, itself] and the garb ascribed to the mayor's guard and Mikku tribesmen. To make matters more confusing, the new novel "Wizard's Conclave" gives Neraka a distinctly Middle Eastern slant I was heretofore unaware of. I realize that this is a "non-canon" novel insofar as it isn't authored by Weiss or Hickman, but it can be argued that - given the gravity of the subject matter it addresses - it will rapidly become "canon" in the 3e DL game setting.
I have always been inclined to give specific regions of my game worlds regional flavors in an effort to create a more realistic environment filled with varying and somewhat easily identifiable cultures and peoples, much as Ed Greenwood's Faerun has. I understand that this was not Mr. Greenwood's initial vision, but I feel that it has been a boon to the Realms. Even certain areas of Ansalon bear similar cultural identifiers, i.e. the dark-skinned (Caribbean, perhaps) sea-folk of Northern Ergoth and the Nordic folk of Icewall. But I am in a conundrum when it comes to Khur.
I'm greatly interested to hear both official and fan-based commentary on this issue.
Originally posted by afd1366
Khur (or Khuri-Khan) at times, and dependant on source, would seem to be derived from both a Mongolian or Arabic model.
You pretty much nailed it with this.
Cheers,
Cam
that, or very sufi. One of the original modules gives it a kind of gypsy feel.
Originally posted by afd1366
I'm greatly interested to hear both official and fan-based commentary on this issue.
Well, even though Weis & Hickman did not write the Wizards' Conclave novel, it's safe to say that it's canon information. In fact, It's safe to say any Dragonlance novel published by WotC is official and is therefore canon.
As to Neraka having heretofore unknown middle-eastern influences ... It's not too far-fetched, given the area's geographic closeness to the whole Khur region. If Neraka (via the Green Dragonarmy) can influence Khur's culture (in the form of the mixed community of Delphon), it only stands to reason that Neraka would itself be influenced in some way, perhaps even a significant way, by the nearby culture of Khur.
As to giving Khur a regional flavor based on a real-world culture, it should be helpful to note that at the height of the Mongol Empire in our own history, various portions of the Middle East were under their dominion. Thus a region that mixes the two cultures isn't too confusing, if in fact Khur was based on an area of the middle east that was under the Mongol heel.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Well, even though Weis & Hickman did not write the Wizards' Conclave novel, it's safe to say that it's canon information. In fact, It's safe to say any Dragonlance novel published by WotC is official and is therefore canon.
Does this mean that now half of the dwarf population is blind in the dark and the other half has infravision? because thats what I undestood in Dark Thane.
Im sorry to get of topic but I had to ask, I dont want infravision back it was always a problem for me, and I also dont want dakness-blinded dwarfs.
Originally posted by Calabozo
Does this mean that now half of the dwarf population is blind in the dark and the other half has infravision? because thats what I undestood in Dark Thane.
Im sorry to get of topic but I had to ask, I dont want infravision back it was always a problem for me, and I also dont want dakness-blinded dwarfs.
Well, if I recall correctly, the dwarves that could see in the dark in Dark Thane used darkvision, as was made clear in the beginning of the book when Tarn Bellowgranite was wandering about the urkhan-built tunnels (the book specifically stated "darkvision").
Novels versus gaming materials is a topic that has always been problematic. Not every novel author is familiar with D&D game mechanics (and even if they are, they may choose to ignore them), and this has been true of Weis & Hickman novels as well. This is often the case since it is necessary for the advancement of the storyline (usually). A good example is the hit point mechanic. We all may know that mechanics-wise, a certain dwarf hero could fall 100 feet and still have plenty of hit points to spare and could instantly be up and about fighting off dark dwarves with nary a worry ... but a fall of such massive proportions is not likely to appear in any novel without the faller dying instantly from the impact.
So as far as the canonicity of novels, I'd say the events that take place in them are canon, but the mechanics of spellcasting and game-rules used within should be taken with a grain of salt. This is made more clear given the real world time in which the novels are written, as obviously older novels written during prior editions of the game make use of mechanics no longer in use in today's edition of the game (e.g. infravision, dwarves incapable of becoming arcane spellcasters, etc.)
Originally posted by afd1366
To make matters more confusing, the new novel "Wizard's Conclave" gives Neraka a distinctly Middle Eastern slant I was heretofore unaware of.
I always saw Neraka as being much like the evil sorceress´s castle in "Willow". Dark and bleak - a place with perpetual rain and bad weather, and with rather non-descript cictizens and ragtag soldiers swarming the place. Not so much as a version of some culture from the real world. But that´s just me
As for Khur, well in the few campaigns in which I´ve used Khur, it has been with a very Arabian flavor. But that would not be very consistent with any material I´ve read on Khur, which has given me a distinct feeling of it being Mongolian...
Ravenmantle
Khur is super persian for me. (tarsis, as a frame of reference, is more turkish/khanate/caliphate than Khur for me)
Originally posted by talinthas
mongolian? Really, the only mongolian culture i've noticed in DL is the Uigan over on Taladas.
Exactly. About the only Mongolian elements I've seen in Khur are the use of Khan for titles. Everything else about Khur screams Arabic (names, geography, settlements, physical features of the people, etc.)
1) Every fantasy setting simply copies historical cultures and just plops them down beside each other. It's boring and takes very little imagination.
2) You end up with a campaign setting that simply looks thrown together. Take the Forgotten Realms for example, in which Bedouine are in the middle of Europe just because a desert is there. The egyptian analogue which still uses bronze weapons. These things make me cry and pretty much makes me disdain the Forgotten Realms as a setting.
So if Khur is the middle eastern analogue, then what is up with the Plans of Dust nearby? How are they indegenous cultures that sprang up from the North American desert and yet Khur middle eastern? Why does this middle eastern culture exist in a vaccuum?
Why not take the Khurish geography, and figure out what you need to live there. So fine, long robes, some dromedaries, a swift fighting style that relies on striking from the desert and retreating back into it.
But why not start fresh and say "I'd like a matrilineal society, in which women select the male leaders. Male leaders gain status among the women by participating in successful raids against opposing clans or enemies outside the nation." That exist in a desert region too. You don't need to copy Arabian culture and traditions. You don't need to copy Renessaince Italy or Ancient Egypt. Think outside the box.
Don't be afraid to rethink wardrobe, architecture, religion, governence. For example, instead of domed temples, perhaps their temples are built burrowed into the ground. Instead of headscarves or turbans, maybe they have wide-brimmed hats which provide ample shade. Instead of steel scale male armour, maybe they have ironwood armor with slats on it which can be opened to provide ventilation.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Exactly. About the only Mongolian elements I've seen in Khur are the use of Khan for titles. Everything else about Khur screams Arabic (names, geography, settlements, physical features of the people, etc.)
I´ve been skimming through my gaming books...and I can´t really see how I got the idea of a Mongolian culture...must´ve been dreaming or something like that. It would seem that my own idea of Khur isn´t that far off the official version after all
Ravenmantle
Originally posted by Ravenmantle
I´ve been skimming through my gaming books...and I can´t really see how I got the idea of a Mongolian culture...must´ve been dreaming or something like that. It would seem that my own idea of Khur isn´t that far off the official version after all
The Mongolian influence shows up in northern tribes, more than the Mikku (who are much more Arabian with a dash of gypsy).
It's so much easier to tell my players that the overall feel is Arabic, describing things in terms of minarets and olive groves and sashes and turbans. That's the real draw of using Earth influences, and one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of trying to find a few Earth parallels when defining cultures. It's also a good way to use existing third party materials, sourcebooks, or references if you know the kind of thing you're trying to aim for.
Cheers,
Cam