Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 19:42:10	A simple question, Cam probably knows the answer... The use of a hoopak by a Kender to fire a missile in combat. Does this provoke an Attack of Opportunity in the usual fashion? Arguably might not - it is a melee weapon simply being used in a slightly different way - twirling in a fashion not disimilar from melee use. Arguably, a radically different use which provokes an AOO. In any evert, if the consensus is one way or the other, I'd appreciate if you could point me to the reference where it says that is so, apart from the PHB.
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 19:51:12	I would have to say that Yes firing a hoopak while in melee provokes an AoO. After all you have to plant the pointy end into the ground, load it, pull back, aim, and then fire. Haveing to do all that leaves you pretty well open for someone to take a pot shot at you, just like firing any other ranged weapon while an opponent is in a square that threatens you provokes an AoO. Now twirling a hoopak over your head I don't think would, as long as your not trying to produce the bullroar effect, if you were just swinging it to keep opponents at bay I don't think it would. I don't think that something like that is covered anywhere, unless you'd call that going all out defensive.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 19:55:28	After all you have to plant the pointy end into the ground, load it, pull back, aim, and then fire. That assumes that the method you have just described is, in fact, the way it is used. I think that's wrong. It's not an elastic sling shot. It's a Staff sling...you twirl the weapon and then bring it to the overhand and down - shooting the bullet like in lacrosse. Tasslehoff was described as twirling the weapon to use it as a sling as far as I recall. The extra torque provided by the length of the shaft of the staff part of the weapon gives you the leverage when combined with the momentum of the twirl.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 20:09:22	We are both correct...only partly though. Exerpt from the Kencyclopedia on the Hoopak (hope you don't mind Kipper) The hoopak is probably the most well known of the kender weapons. It is a 3 foot staff made of hard yet supple wood, that is forked at one end and has a metal tip at the other. The metal tip can be sharpened and the hoopak can be thrown like a spear. The hoopak can also be stuck into the ground so that missiles can be fired from the forked end like a sling shot. It may also be twirled over the head like a sling to launch sling bullets or stones or it may be used as a traditional sling staff. Occasionally this type of weapon may be hollowed out to hold useful objects, like silk rope or stones for ammunition. As a tool the hoopak can be used to help a kender gather fruit from the lower branches of trees, like an apple picker. As a musical instrument the hoopak can be swung in a circle and it emits a low bullroar. Anyway you cut it firing a ranged weapon while an opponent occupies a threatening square provokes an AoO. From the PHB p. 122 (3.0 sorry can't locate my 3.5 at the moment) Some actions themselves provoke attacks of opportunity, including casting a spell and attacking with a ranged weapon. Table 8-1: Fundamental Actions in Combat; Table 8-4: Miscellaneous Actions; and Table 8-3: Partial Actions note many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity. Of course Rule #1 overrides everything.
#5 cam_banks Aug 11, 2004 21:01:50	Any attack made with a ranged weapon (which a hoopak is - it's a double weapon) provokes an attack of opportunity, regardless of the method of delivery. Whether it's the mechanical delivery of a crossbow, the release of a bowstring, the hurling of an axe, or the overhead slinging action of a sling, the use of a ranged weapon to deliver an accurate shot at a distance is enough of a focused action on the part of the attacker that adjacent opponents are able to get in a free attack. Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 21:09:40	Wait!!! Somethings wrong. Cam and I actually agree on something? J/K
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 21:20:49	We've been toying with this animation for it. It has some transition before and end issues we need to fix (step back to start - step back at finish so there's no net movement) but overall its looks dramatic in game. http://www.dladventures.com/gallery/public/hoopak_anim1.avi Divx required. 375k As for AOO - fine by me. I looked for a specific rule on it and did not find one. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something out there I missed which said "no AOO". My thanks.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 21:34:57	Very nice. Do keep us updated on the progress. Are you also going to include the "pointy end in the ground" too? Are you doing voiceovers for the cutscenes or is it going to be all AI voiced? I have soooooo many questions, but I can wait...I think.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 1:37:21	Originally posted by Steel_Wind I think that's wrong. It's not an elastic sling shot. It's a Staff sling...you twirl the weapon and then bring it to the overhand and down - shooting the bullet like in lacrosse. I agree with that. I dont know where kendercyclopedia got that "elastic sling shot" thing anyway?
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 1:40:02	Originally posted by Steel_Wind We've been toying with this animation for it. It has some transition before and end issues we need to fix (step back to start - step back at finish so there's no net movement) but overall its looks dramatic in game. My thanks. Nice work! If you make any more of these keep us informed.
#11 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 13, 2004 6:21:47	Originally posted by Perkele I agree with that. I dont know where kendercyclopedia got that "elastic sling shot" thing anyway? The Kencyclopedia got the information rom Tales of the Lance page 73. In which states that the hoopak can be planted into the ground and the "staff" can be bent backward to sling the stone. This method would not nearly have the range spinning it would have, more like a 10 foot range increment instead of 60 feet like a sling, but it could be done.
#12 shnik Aug 13, 2004 13:23:07	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo The Kencyclopedia got the information rom Tales of the Lance page 73. In which states that the hoopak can be planted into the ground and the "staff" can be bent backward to sling the stone. This method would not nearly have the range spinning it would have, more like a 10 foot range increment instead of 60 feet like a sling, but it could be done. This is also stated in the new DL DM Screen.
#13 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 16:09:19	Originally posted by Perkele Nice work! If you make any more of these keep us informed. *lol* If I updated this forum every time we made more models, textures, portraits and animations in connection with DragonLance, there would be nothing else to read here except relatively tedious technical news on a game not everyone is necessarily interested in. I don't think that's appropriate and I am certain it would not be appreciated. Our own DLA forums and websites exist for that purpose. They are *quite* busy with about a million hits a month and our membership is substantial. Please drop by there and have a look for yourself if these things are of ongoing interest to you. As a final note - the hoopak animation has not been circulated to the NWN community generally - I just like dropping little bits here and there to the PnP DL fans. ;)