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Sigil and Athas?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tevish_Szat
Aug 14, 2004 4:51:30 Hello all. I am attempting to find the answer to a question: Could a character from Athas conceivably turn up in Sigil?

I've skimmed over the forums, and what i know of canon of eother setting. admittedly, this isn't much as i haven't been able to get my hands on any old 2e info, so i'm basically limited to PS3e, the Mimir, the boards, and Dark Sun 3e.

Long story short, i want to get an Athasian cleric to the mainstream planes. Rather, i wish to knwo if this is possible. a few points i have considered:

This Thread takes the permiability of the Grey around Athas from both standpoints.

The Athar. Prety sodding suggestive name, don't you think? Especially when you consider Athar philosophy compared with the deity situation on Athas. Perhaps the Planescape designers jsut made a little nod to their Dark Sun fellows withough havign a canon connection, perhaps it's a coincidence, or perhaps they come from the same root (What root would that be?).

The Mimir has numerous refrences to Athas and some Athasan characters, as does SIGIS. However, how much of this is fan work and how much is canon?

My question is this: From a Planescape standpoint, is it possible?
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 14, 2004 5:19:40 Yes. It's possible, according to Planescape cannon. I believe Athas is mentioned in the Planewalker's Handbook, though I could be wrong about the book. A few other prime worlds are mentioned as well. IIRC, Athasians tend to do fairly well on the planes, since they're used to rather unforgiving environments, and the fact that if they can find a two-way portal to Athas, they can make a fortune carting water back and forth and selling it.

From the PS standpoint, any bounded space is fair game for a portal to and/or from Sigil to anchor to. It might be rare, but certainly not impossible for a character from Athas to find their way to Sigil.
#3
ripvanwormer
Aug 14, 2004 10:16:55
Originally posted by Tevish Szat
Hello all. I am attempting to find the answer to a question: Could a character from Athas conceivably turn up in Sigil?

Yes. Sigil has a community of Athasian halflings, and Pelion has tribes of Athasian elves. Some of Athas' ancient historical personages have traveled the planes, and an invasion of githyanki and githzerai is the origin of the Gith.

The Gray is difficult to penetrate, but not impossible. A Guide to the Ethereal Plane said that any plane-traveling magic cast to get characters out of Athas causes the plane-traveler to end up in the Gray. Once there, spells used to get out forced the caster to roll on the following chart:

d100

01-08 Character lost in the Gray. Make an intelligence check (DC 11, perhaps) every 24 hours to return to the point where he or she entered.
09-65 Spell fizzles.
66-100 Success! The planes await!

Athas has some natural conduits to the Inner Planes that allow a traveler to circumvent this problem.

The Athar. Prety sodding suggestive name, don't you think? Especially when you consider Athar philosophy compared with the deity situation on Athas. Perhaps the Planescape designers jsut made a little nod to their Dark Sun fellows withough havign a canon connection, perhaps it's a coincidence, or perhaps they come from the same root (What root would that be?).

The root word is probably "Atheist."
#4
sildatorak
Aug 14, 2004 10:57:00
Originally posted by Tevish Szat
The Mimir has numerous refrences to Athas and some Athasan characters, as does SIGIS. However, how much of this is fan work and how much is canon?

It is all fan work, and none of it is canon, though a good chunk of it is good ideas (either as the dark of things or utter screed). Canon does have an Athasian at the helm of the Mercykillers until he gets replaced by Crazy McWhatshername, IIRC.
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 14, 2004 12:16:54 I also recall a humorous mention of some halflings from Athas that showed up in Sigil being referred over to the local halfling burrows where they immediately attempted cannibalism on the non-Athasian halflings. Can't remember what book it was in.

The big problem with Athas and Planescape is that you end up having to fend off the demands of players that all want to play Athasian characters because of their superior ability scores and psionic powers. There's also the problem of players that want to gather up whatever scrap metal they can find and go running back to Athas to get rich.

When I DM'd in either setting I ruled that because of the influence of the Grey (the demiplane that surrounds Athas) no portals, even in Sigil, to Athas are permanent. That means that they form, persist a short while and then vanish again. This accounts for why few Athasians find their way into Sigil and why those that do often have a hard time getting home.
#6
kilamar
Aug 14, 2004 22:08:14 It is official that some Athasians made their way to the planes, it also official that some planar Creatures made their way to Athas. But is is canon that these occurences are extremly rare and happened mostly by chance, not by intention.

Kilamar
#7
incenjucar
Aug 15, 2004 1:31:25 1) Getting to Sigil from Athas, or visa versa, is as hard as escaping from Ravenloft. Each way. Each time.

2) Returning to Athas is normally the mark of insanity. Athas, for all its cool factor, is mostly a sucky place to live.

3) A regular movement back and forth will get the dragons on you.

4) All Athasian races are, at least, LA+1, as noted in Dragon magazine.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 15, 2004 2:05:18 One possibility is to have the PCs from Athas first travel to the "bad neighborhoods" of the elemental planes. From there the PCs can find a Portal to Sigil or the gatetowns. Perhaps even go from the elemental planes to the lower planes to Sigil and the gatetowns. Forcing difficult planewalking, over ground that is likely contested, can dramatically cut down the potential profit of carting water or scrap metal back and forth.

Both campaigns have *very* different styles of play. Be ready for PC culture shock. Athasians may have no real believe other than the will to survive when they arrive and think the factions are so much bunk.

-Eric Gorman
#9
sildatorak
Aug 15, 2004 2:22:51
Originally posted by HvF
Athasians may have no real believe other than the will to survive when they arrive and think the factions are so much bunk.

The will to survive is good enough to found a faction on. It resonates with the Fated, and the Dispossesed (from Planes of Chaos). It isn't a perfect match, but "the strong take what they need and hold it" and "I'm worthy and I'll prove it" are both pretty close to "only the strongest can survive, and I'm one of them."
#10
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Aug 15, 2004 10:33:25 It's possible and there are portals, at least rarely, to Athas from Sigil. In fact there's a community of Athasian living in their own district of 'New Tyr' on the border of the Lower Ward and the Hive IIRC. I more or less just restated the canon info on that district in the Planewalker Sigil guide. The original canon info was in Faction War as I recall.

And yes, Factol Mallin of the Mercykillers was an Athasian. Before Little miss Barmybritches killed him ;)
#11
ripvanwormer
Aug 15, 2004 12:11:17
Originally posted by Psionycx
I also recall a humorous mention of some halflings from Athas that showed up in Sigil being referred over to the local halfling burrows where they immediately attempted cannibalism on the non-Athasian halflings. Can't remember what book it was in.

It was in Faction War. The neighborhood is called Curly-Foot, and it's in the Clerk's Ward.

The Athasian halflings have since been expelled by Curly-Foot's warriors. Their current whereabouts are unknown, but I'd look in the Hive Ward first.
#12
kilamar
Aug 15, 2004 12:49:15 In our campaign I put some athasian Halfling refugees on the Beastlands who stranded there a few hundred years ago. They adapted perfectly to the hunting/getting hunted lifestyle of the plane.
But one should note that they are different from normal Halfings only in the cultural aspect.
(They mixed with normal Halflings who found them a few years later and I do not think that athasians need extra high ablity score to appear extra tough).

I got my inspiration on a website that mentioned Halflings on the Beastlands a few years ago.

Kilamar
#13
ripvanwormer
Aug 16, 2004 22:41:45
Originally posted by ripvanwormer
It was in Faction War. The neighborhood is called Curly-Foot, and it's in the Clerk's Ward.

My mistake; it's in the Guildhall Ward, where most of the ethnic neighborhoods are. But it's very near the border of the Clerk's Ward. Which is disputed anyway.
#14
primemover003
Aug 17, 2004 14:42:03
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
And yes, Factol Mallin of the Mercykillers was an Athasian. Before Little miss Barmybritches killed him ;)

I don't think we know he's dead... just he wasn't leading the Red Death anymore... I know in my campaign he pulled a "Rhys" and got outta dodge before Nilesia's cult of personality wrote him into the deadbook.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tevish_Szat Aug 14, 2004 4:51:30	Hello all. I am attempting to find the answer to a question: Could a character from Athas conceivably turn up in Sigil? I've skimmed over the forums, and what i know of canon of eother setting. admittedly, this isn't much as i haven't been able to get my hands on any old 2e info, so i'm basically limited to PS3e, the Mimir, the boards, and Dark Sun 3e. Long story short, i want to get an Athasian cleric to the mainstream planes. Rather, i wish to knwo if this is possible. a few points i have considered: This Thread takes the permiability of the Grey around Athas from both standpoints. The Athar. Prety sodding suggestive name, don't you think? Especially when you consider Athar philosophy compared with the deity situation on Athas. Perhaps the Planescape designers jsut made a little nod to their Dark Sun fellows withough havign a canon connection, perhaps it's a coincidence, or perhaps they come from the same root (What root would that be?). The Mimir has numerous refrences to Athas and some Athasan characters, as does SIGIS. However, how much of this is fan work and how much is canon? My question is this: From a Planescape standpoint, is it possible?
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 14, 2004 5:19:40	Yes. It's possible, according to Planescape cannon. I believe Athas is mentioned in the Planewalker's Handbook, though I could be wrong about the book. A few other prime worlds are mentioned as well. IIRC, Athasians tend to do fairly well on the planes, since they're used to rather unforgiving environments, and the fact that if they can find a two-way portal to Athas, they can make a fortune carting water back and forth and selling it. From the PS standpoint, any bounded space is fair game for a portal to and/or from Sigil to anchor to. It might be rare, but certainly not impossible for a character from Athas to find their way to Sigil.
#3 ripvanwormer Aug 14, 2004 10:16:55	Originally posted by Tevish Szat Hello all. I am attempting to find the answer to a question: Could a character from Athas conceivably turn up in Sigil? Yes. Sigil has a community of Athasian halflings, and Pelion has tribes of Athasian elves. Some of Athas' ancient historical personages have traveled the planes, and an invasion of githyanki and githzerai is the origin of the Gith. The Gray is difficult to penetrate, but not impossible. A Guide to the Ethereal Plane said that any plane-traveling magic cast to get characters out of Athas causes the plane-traveler to end up in the Gray. Once there, spells used to get out forced the caster to roll on the following chart: d100 01-08 Character lost in the Gray. Make an intelligence check (DC 11, perhaps) every 24 hours to return to the point where he or she entered. 09-65 Spell fizzles. 66-100 Success! The planes await! Athas has some natural conduits to the Inner Planes that allow a traveler to circumvent this problem. The Athar. Prety sodding suggestive name, don't you think? Especially when you consider Athar philosophy compared with the deity situation on Athas. Perhaps the Planescape designers jsut made a little nod to their Dark Sun fellows withough havign a canon connection, perhaps it's a coincidence, or perhaps they come from the same root (What root would that be?). The root word is probably "Atheist."
#4 sildatorak Aug 14, 2004 10:57:00	Originally posted by Tevish Szat The Mimir has numerous refrences to Athas and some Athasan characters, as does SIGIS. However, how much of this is fan work and how much is canon? It is all fan work, and none of it is canon, though a good chunk of it is good ideas (either as the dark of things or utter screed). Canon does have an Athasian at the helm of the Mercykillers until he gets replaced by Crazy McWhatshername, IIRC.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 14, 2004 12:16:54	I also recall a humorous mention of some halflings from Athas that showed up in Sigil being referred over to the local halfling burrows where they immediately attempted cannibalism on the non-Athasian halflings. Can't remember what book it was in. The big problem with Athas and Planescape is that you end up having to fend off the demands of players that all want to play Athasian characters because of their superior ability scores and psionic powers. There's also the problem of players that want to gather up whatever scrap metal they can find and go running back to Athas to get rich. When I DM'd in either setting I ruled that because of the influence of the Grey (the demiplane that surrounds Athas) no portals, even in Sigil, to Athas are permanent. That means that they form, persist a short while and then vanish again. This accounts for why few Athasians find their way into Sigil and why those that do often have a hard time getting home.
#6 kilamar Aug 14, 2004 22:08:14	It is official that some Athasians made their way to the planes, it also official that some planar Creatures made their way to Athas. But is is canon that these occurences are extremly rare and happened mostly by chance, not by intention. Kilamar
#7 incenjucar Aug 15, 2004 1:31:25	1) Getting to Sigil from Athas, or visa versa, is as hard as escaping from Ravenloft. Each way. Each time. 2) Returning to Athas is normally the mark of insanity. Athas, for all its cool factor, is mostly a sucky place to live. 3) A regular movement back and forth will get the dragons on you. 4) All Athasian races are, at least, LA+1, as noted in Dragon magazine.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 15, 2004 2:05:18	One possibility is to have the PCs from Athas first travel to the "bad neighborhoods" of the elemental planes. From there the PCs can find a Portal to Sigil or the gatetowns. Perhaps even go from the elemental planes to the lower planes to Sigil and the gatetowns. Forcing difficult planewalking, over ground that is likely contested, can dramatically cut down the potential profit of carting water or scrap metal back and forth. Both campaigns have very different styles of play. Be ready for PC culture shock. Athasians may have no real believe other than the will to survive when they arrive and think the factions are so much bunk. -Eric Gorman
#9 sildatorak Aug 15, 2004 2:22:51	Originally posted by HvF Athasians may have no real believe other than the will to survive when they arrive and think the factions are so much bunk. The will to survive is good enough to found a faction on. It resonates with the Fated, and the Dispossesed (from Planes of Chaos). It isn't a perfect match, but "the strong take what they need and hold it" and "I'm worthy and I'll prove it" are both pretty close to "only the strongest can survive, and I'm one of them."
#10 Shemeska_the_Marauder Aug 15, 2004 10:33:25	It's possible and there are portals, at least rarely, to Athas from Sigil. In fact there's a community of Athasian living in their own district of 'New Tyr' on the border of the Lower Ward and the Hive IIRC. I more or less just restated the canon info on that district in the Planewalker Sigil guide. The original canon info was in Faction War as I recall. And yes, Factol Mallin of the Mercykillers was an Athasian. Before Little miss Barmybritches killed him ;)
#11 ripvanwormer Aug 15, 2004 12:11:17	Originally posted by Psionycx I also recall a humorous mention of some halflings from Athas that showed up in Sigil being referred over to the local halfling burrows where they immediately attempted cannibalism on the non-Athasian halflings. Can't remember what book it was in. It was in Faction War. The neighborhood is called Curly-Foot, and it's in the Clerk's Ward. The Athasian halflings have since been expelled by Curly-Foot's warriors. Their current whereabouts are unknown, but I'd look in the Hive Ward first.
#12 kilamar Aug 15, 2004 12:49:15	In our campaign I put some athasian Halfling refugees on the Beastlands who stranded there a few hundred years ago. They adapted perfectly to the hunting/getting hunted lifestyle of the plane. But one should note that they are different from normal Halfings only in the cultural aspect. (They mixed with normal Halflings who found them a few years later and I do not think that athasians need extra high ablity score to appear extra tough). I got my inspiration on a website that mentioned Halflings on the Beastlands a few years ago. Kilamar
#13 ripvanwormer Aug 16, 2004 22:41:45	Originally posted by ripvanwormer *It was in Faction War. The neighborhood is called Curly-Foot, and it's in the Clerk's Ward.* My mistake; it's in the Guildhall Ward, where most of the ethnic neighborhoods are. But it's very near the border of the Clerk's Ward. Which is disputed anyway.
#14 primemover003 Aug 17, 2004 14:42:03	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder And yes, Factol Mallin of the Mercykillers was an Athasian. Before Little miss Barmybritches killed him ;) I don't think we know he's dead... just he wasn't leading the Red Death anymore... I know in my campaign he pulled a "Rhys" and got outta dodge before Nilesia's cult of personality wrote him into the deadbook.