Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nedlum Aug 15, 2004 22:17:53	I've been looking through the Planescape books, but it's possible I've missed something. In fact, I'm quite sure of it. Where can information about the near-power Slaad/Abyssal Lords/Archons/et al be found? Yes, Jublix and Grazzit are in the Book of Vile Darkness, but I'd like to see what the AD+D players had to expect. It may not be in Planescape, but then where?
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 15, 2004 23:04:55	I believe some of the powerful beings of the planes are statted in the Planescape Monstrous Compendiums, but seeing a sI don't have those, I can't be more helpful. The archons, modrons, and Baatezu are described in Planes of Law. The Baatezu leader information is spotty and mostly cloaked in secretiveness. There are no stats for the Baatezu lords. There is a brief description of Primus and the modrons, but not very much in the way of specifics. The archons have no described leadership in Planes of Law. The slaad, Tanar'ri, and Eladrin are described in Planes of Chaos. There isn't too much on the Eladrin leadership. The slaad lords are mention (I believe) but not in great detail. The tanar'ri lords are mentioned, and stats for Pazrael and Graz'zt are given. I believe there is more information on the Slaad Lords and Primus in older, pre-2e, DnD material.
#3 incenjucar Aug 15, 2004 23:40:45	That I am aware of, the only fully-statted "supermonsters' in 2e are two abyssal lords (A vulturish one, and another), in the Chaos suppliment. Not entirely sure why they didn't stat others, but I wager it was a mixture of the fact that PS was more inclined towards 'pre-epic' gaming, and that PS just didn't have time to get around to it.
#4 freefall Aug 16, 2004 0:33:06	Pazriel/Pazuzu and Grazz't are in the Chaos MS. A lot of other archfiends were considered to be lesser gods, which in 2E meant they no longer were statted and it was assumed that as far as the PCs should be concerned, they were omnipotent (never cared for the 2E take on gods myself). In Planescape a lot of the Lords of the Nine were unknown as well, although I think they finally recieved stats in the Guide to Hell (those might just be avatar stats though; I can't remember, but there are stats in there, although it is only for the Lord of the Nine, not any demon lords or princes). For stats on most of these guys you have to go all the way back to 1E AD&D. The Monster Manual and Monster Manual II are the best ones for demon lords and arch devils (MMI also has Bahamut and Tiamat, and MMII has Primus, as well as Solars who you can see used to be pretty friggin' powerful). From what I recall the old Fiend Folio had the Slaad Lords (or at least one of them), as well as Lolth. The Temple of Elemental Evil module had Zuggtmoy (demon mistress of fungus), as well as the demi-god Iuz and the lesser god St. Cuthbert.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2004 17:12:27	Bear in mind that all the monsters from 1E will need a lot of re-statting to make them viable in 3E. I mean, compare the Asmodeus from the BoVD or the Bahamut from the MotP to the entries in the 1e Monster Manual. The work necessary to convert the big 1E bad guys is pretty much equivalent to redoing them from scratch.
#6 nedlum Aug 16, 2004 18:33:29	As I just wanted to know their personaltiy, rather then actual stats, those hopefully will be good enough. Now, to find them. On svgames, I hope...
#7 ripvanwormer Aug 16, 2004 22:00:16	Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime I believe some of the powerful beings of the planes are statted in the Planescape Monstrous Compendiums, but seeing a sI don't have those, I can't be more helpful.. The Princes of Elemental Good and Evil are statted in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix Volume Three. Some of the celestial paragons (Talisid and his five companions, Morwel of the eladrins) are briefly mentioned in Volume Two, but not statted. Much more complete descriptions are in the Book of Exalted Deeds. The first volume of the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix not only has no stats for powerful unique beings of the planes, it pretends (after the Outer Planes Appendix it is largely based on) they don't exist. In fact, it insists quite loudly that balors are the most powerful entities in the Abyss and pit fiends (led by the Dark Eight) the most powerful entities in Baator (and ultraloths the ultimate leaders of the yugoloths, and death slaadi the ultimate leaders of the slaadi). It acknowledges the existence of gods, of course, which solars and other aasimon are said to serve. And Apomps, god of the gehreleths, makes his debut in these pages (as a name, not as stats). Primus was covered quite thoroughly in the Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set. The lords of the Abyss didn't reappear until Planes of Chaos a few months later, and the lords of the Nine Hells weren't detailed fully until Dragon #223, where Colin McComb wrote about them as a supplement to the shadowy detail he provided in Planes of Law. That article had DiTerlizzi illustrations of each, and stats for their avatars. The slaad lords were fully statted in Dragon #221, in an article by Ed Bonny. Originally, the lords of the Nine Hells and the Abyss were detailed in the 1e Monster Manual and Monster Manual II. Two of the slaad lords debuted in the 1e Fiend Folio (Ed Bonny made up two more). The elemental princes of evil were also from the 1e Fiend Folio (the elemental princes of good were created by Monte Cook for the PSMCIII). The second Dragon Magazine Annual had a big article on night hags and yugoloths, and yugoloths who had been altered by night hags. A number of important yugoloths are detailed, described, and statted in that article, which was written by Ed Bonny. The tome archons were first introduced in the 1e Manual of the Planes, but they didn't have names; they were just the most powerful caste of archon, the archonic equivalent of pit fiends or balors. They had stats there, which also appeared in the Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix and Planes of Law. They got the names they have today in Planes of Law, but most of the detail on them is unique to the Book of Exalted Deeds. Talisid's Five Companions were named in Planes of Conflict, but not given much detail. Many of them have since changed, anyway; apparently Talisid's Five Companions are whoever he happens to be with at the time, and this varies.
#8 ripvanwormer Aug 16, 2004 22:04:48	Originally posted by Nedlum As I just wanted to know their personaltiy, rather then actual stats, those hopefully will be good enough. 1e won't give you anything about their personalities. It will give you stats. Personality wasn't invented yet. The best Planescape sources on their personalities were: Planescape boxed set (Primus) Planes of Chaos (Graz'zt and Pazrael) Dragon #221 (Ssendam, Ygorl, Choust, Rennbuu) Dragon #223 (the Nine) Dragon Annual #2 (yugoloth rulers) Faces of Evil: The Fiends (which describes a number of new and old lords of the Abyss - including Lupercio, Alvarez, Pale Night, Lynkhab, and Fraz Urblu - and more briefly details each of the Lords of the Nine). Planescape Monstrous Compendium III (Elemental Princes)
#9 nedlum Aug 16, 2004 22:57:07	Dragon's where the Slaad Lords come from. Well, that explains my lack of success.