I was really impressed of what GVD said!
Indeed, you should not make mighty villains untouchable icons
BUT
I never saw a DM who could handle such a tremendous change in the game setting on the long hand.
Although there were no mayor official changes to WoG in recent years, there may come a time where you have to do what players and DMs hate most: Declare a long world - rumbling quest of your game party ELSEWORLD, maybe because there's a new module that can only be played logically by putting aside the changes you performed.
Anyway, banishing him or imprisoning him is the most viable way in my opinion
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I really learn a lot reading all that posts...rooky power
But now that I opendd an entirely new section:
Although there where no recent official additions to WoG: How deeply should a DM change a game setting in a self - made campaign?
And how can you evade having to declare your changes ELSEWORLD sooner or later..
It seems as if I cannot cope with my computer...
For years, they [myself included] felt that - somehow - we couldn't do anything "big" in our campaign because it would be akin to a sacrilege.
"OMG! How dared I kill Iuz?! I ruined GH!" and that sort of thing.
Then, most of us realized that there wasn't a WotC inquisitor watching over our shoulder, ready to throw us in Hell in case we dared do something that didn't have the TSR/WotC's stamp of approval. To me, it was when GH became an obsolete setting (in the years between Sargent's work and the beginning of Living Greyhawk)
I suddenly saw that setting not as something belonging to others but to myself. Since then, GH campaigns I have run have included events I am sure other fans would disagree with. But, you know what, I don't care. Why? Because it's MY campaign.
In short, DM have to remind themselves from time to time of the most basic rule of our favorite game. Namely that all accessories exist to provide us with tools. Nothing less, nothing more. Everything else depends on us and our imagination. You can't force someone to dream according to guidelines. Nuff said ;)
I am glad that I am not only DM that rumbles his setting this way
:D
I want to conform to the published setting, because the more I deviate the more work it creates for me, as I have to keep track of things instead of just going to the books. But ultimately the setting is just a tool for telling the story, so it should never get in the way of that.
Ortelius is in charge in Greyhawk itself, Mordy's a-missin' and the rest of the Circle of Eight are all MIA!
Langard of Verbobonc? Dead.
Verbobonc? Occupied by The Lich Queen's army.
Furyondy? In Flames!
Queen Yolande? Opened her borders to the Ulek-Pomarj Alliance (A Human/Dwarf/Elf/ORC(??)) army who mean to retake Verbobonc from the Gith. The UPA is a big mean army lead by Prince Conord and Dirbag the Orc. Prince Brightflame being dead and all.
Same ole' Greyhawk to me, tho...
All these changes lead to bigger changes down the road. Once the Gith are defeated, the orcs will take their place as a major race beside their Dwarven allies, the very face of the game will change as Gruumsh turns his back on a large segment of his worshippers.
That said, there's one huge ADVANTAGE to shattering the world in this way - which is that the PCs, rather than just being looters and highwaymen, have a chance to make a POSITIVE difference in the campaign world. The worse things are, the less it takes for a small but plucky band to make a difference.
(God, I can't believe I used the adjective "plucky." I gotta go lie down.)
My personal approach is to indulge myself. If something sounds neat, go for it!
At the same time, I keep abreast of "official" or "canon" developments and try to work those in because (1) they are generally fairly well thoughtout and interesting and (2) by not completely abandoning "canon," I can talk to other Greyhawkers more easily.
What I really like to see or hear about is where people have diverged from "canon" or "official" history. If everyone followed canon, all games would be similar to a degree that it would making talking about things kinda dull, IMO. Its where we each choose to go our own way and do things differently that fascinates me. Someone may be doing something I never thought of and, having heard about it, I may give it a try to good affect.
Unfortunately, I think there is so much talk of "canon" that people are hesitate to say, "Screw canon! I have a better idea and here it is!" The people who make "official" products are no better or worse designers or DMs that anyone else. They just choose to do it for a living and are willing to accept the paycheck, which isn't much unless you invent Magic or Heroclicks. So, your home game of GH could be just as good or better. And its not limited to GH. I wish people would talk more about what they are doing and why it rocks. Creative exchange fascinates me. Q&A about canon bores me.
Jason Zavoda and his amazing index have made it possible for anyone to be an instant "canon expert;" you can access his index on the web or download a free PDF. Now what you gonna do with that "canon?" Therein lies the game!
IMO
GVD
Anyway, I think it always depends on the group your playing with how to manage the *canon*. With a newer group, I do not dare to change important things. (That doesn''t mean that inyour made up adventure you can't bring in VIPs or change dates.) With a veteran Greyhawk group of advanced character levels, however, I'd like to experiment more.
BTW I'd say the better a DM is, the better he can infiltrate his characters to the canon with lesser changes.
And if you make your own Game Setting based on the WoG, I welcome that. The only problem I had with that in the past is was my disability to adjust it later to the canon because there was a new module that my players wanted to explore.
With that, you can lock a setting for your group forever.
The only problem I had with that in the past is was my disability to adjust it later to the canon because there was a new module that my players wanted to explore.
With that, you can lock a setting for your group forever.
Eh, that's a problem every DM has faced in every setting for which more than one accessory was produced. Don't let it bother you.
Remember the original FR boxed set? The one with the horse nomad on the cover? In it, you could find a list of areas of the world which the author promised would never be used by TSR. In other words, they had been set aside for all DM to tinker with. Not two years afterwards, the very same locations were used in a "canon" accessory
If something new and "canon" comes up that you can't integrate in your version of a setting, simply disregard it or, better yet, show your DM's imagination by finding a way to still introduce it in your world.
Example: I have a friend who has been running a FR campaign for close to 12 years. Needless to say, more than a few things in his campaign have evolved to the point where it can't be considered "canon" anymore.
When the new 3.XE FR setting was published, he rather liked the idea of Thayan enclaves slowly expanding throughout countries. Alas, in his world, the Red Wizards had suffered a disastrous defeat and would have been in no shape to do that. Did he simply discard the basic idea? No. He transformed it. In his campaign, those enclaves are sponsored not by Red Wizards but by the Hosttower of the Arcane (from Luskan). And it works perfectly!
I think it demonstrates that the motto for all DMs should be "Learn, think, and adapt" ;)
Minor probs - rescued Thrommel - have him disappear again in during the Great Northern Crusade in 588 CY.
Rescued Ringlanders - have them relocate back to Ringland after reclamation of western territories.
My character is the Guardian of Adlerweg - involve her and the characters in various political intrigues to stay one step ahead of the Brotherhood and lay some clues or opportunities to assist in the onset of civil war in 589 CY
Mordenkainen has two of the Theorparts that make up the Artifact of Evil (or rather, he has separated them and hidden them somewhere) and the Brotherhood has the third - no idea where this plot might lead in canon terms except that there are hints that the Black Brotherhood might be involved in the civil war in the Hold of the Sea Princes.
I still want the players to play Vecna Lives but they are still too low level (levels 9-13) so I've postponed that. I always thought that it would be fun for Vecna to win, making Greyhawk a darker, more dangerous place.
I'm always reluctant to depart too far from canon because I always like the option of reigning the campaign back in line in the future. However, I think that once players reach epic levels some kind of departure is inevitable. The biggest problem is record keeping so you know what happened when!
(That's why I currently favour icy winter settings ;) )
Really, it doesn't really matter what happens to WoG canon - except for the RPGA, there is no real interest in keeping it up to date. I think other than Living players scarcely use newer dates than, say, the ones given in "Die, Vecna, die!"
In fact, my first experience with WoG was an DIRRTY uncanonical one: A setting of german Midgard RPG was adapted to sustitute the Bakluni Lands. After the adventure, we travelled East, finding our way to the elven realm of Celene...
I just remember my terrible errors changing DL: Age of Mortals at my will. Won't tell too much, but: NO great Dragons, NO One, NO Desperation... my players considered it nearly unplayable at the end. *grrr curse them for it!*
Alright, got that out of the way. I currently have two brother's in real life who play dwarf brothers in my WOG game. In their characters' history they had stronghold attacked by Iuz forces and taken as far as they know. The escaped together but had to flee after Iuz forces didn't leave the area. The two players named The Hold of Deep Stone. It was in the process of growing and originally was just a few dwarves but had almost become a city below the hold. So, I have placed it in Hex M 23/24 near the mouth of Deepstill River. Just thought the names correlated. They fled to Sterich where the clan had originated from in hopes of gaining aid to retake the hold but found that their original clan home and most of its occupants had been obliterated by Giants have never really recovered.
Knowing that Iuz's demon forces were reduced by the Crook of Rao I decided there should be a real good reason for him to want this Hold or something in it. Since it really is beyond, even the fringes, of his realm of direct influence. I created a rod known as the Cadeuseus of Repose which in my WOG was what imprisoned some of the gods/demi-gods below castle greyhawk. Now the rod was consumed during the imprisonment of the gods but the plans/recipe for creating a duplicate Cadeuseus of Repose were saved. The plans for its creation fell in the Uncle of the Dwarf Brothers and dissappeared only days before Iuz forces attacked Deep Stone. The dwarf brothers are currently returning to their hold with friends the have made (other players) and plan to take the hold for their clan once again and then locate their uncle.
They actually encountered a force of Iuz in Dutchy of Urnst that had just attacked and captured a priest of Farlaghn who had another magic item called The Compass of Esk-Al-Rook. With this compass a person's blood can be placed within and any blood relation to that person or that person can be asked one question where a direction would be the answer. Iuz knows that their uncle was the last known to have the plans for creating the rod and had taken the compass to use on the brothers when they found them. The Iuz forces were encountered and the party saved the priest but a demon appeared and acquired the compass. But without some blood of the brothers or others in their family the compass is useless to this end for Iuz. From the priest, who overheard the Iuz forces talking, the party learned a few bits and pieces of info leaning towards all the facts i have presented.
Currently Iuz is searching for the brothers because he knows of their existance but they do realize that they are the target of the Old One's eye and are trying to remain anonymous and avoid drawing any attention.
I have bought the Battle of Khazad-Dum gamesworkshop minis and am going to use the Balrog for a Balor that Iuz has placed inside the Hold of Deep Stone. Party is currently about 10th lvl (but have 7 players and an 8th starts this saturday) on average but with many character deaths and a few people moving away and back the levels are kind hodge-podged between 5th and 11th. So i have quite a while before they can handle a Balor.
I have placed a few of the generic adventure modules in my WOG also. I placed Forge of Fury dwarven hold in Keoland at Hex H1 76/77 and I am currently running Heart of Nightfang Spire and have placed the spire in Hex Y 6/7 in the North East portion. I placed the spire their because it was in the player's line of travel and would also help them avoid Maure Castle which I plan on running in a future campaign.
Also have some other characters with very unique histories progessing right now and I have one character with a Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde issue that is triggered by a specific sound. He has yet to encounter the sound but they plan to go through City of Greyhawk on their way and I plan to have his first encounter with his Mr. Hyde side in Greyhawk. Should be interesting.
Well, I hope I didn't put all of you to sleep and I hope that Max Writer didn't read this.
Cool thing to keep gaming in the family! Those groups last the longest time and you can experiment endlessly!
And that story rocks, as well!
Jekyll/Hyde: There once was that kid in my campaign
that had magical diarhoa and whenever it had to go to the bathroom he changed in a, well, let's call it a big brown glueball...
Well, that's the way you show ten year old wannabees that making fun of a death knight can result... unpleasant.
Hey Scoti!
Cool thing to keep gaming in the family! Those groups last the longest time and you can experiment endlessly!
Actually, I miss typed that, the two brothers are my friends but they are brothers. But one of my brothers also plays. He plays an Elven Monk of Heironeous. Well, Actually he is human and Corellan Larethian did a favor by helping Heironeous mask him as an elf until the time was right for him to be revealed. This is one of the other interesting histories in my game.
Followers of Hextor had captured a woman that was expecting twin boy babies. A sage/wise man had told her it was part of a prophecy but she didn't believe it. Anyway, Hextor was going to imbue a little bit of himself into these twin boys and have them represent him as a force to be reckoned with in the Flanaess. Heironeous got word of it and stole one of the boys. The worshipers of Hextor had tied the woman on the top of a black tower (Yet to be placed in my world because I am focusing on the dwarves currently). While the worshipers were performing some evil and mystical rite to bring the presence of Hextor to the woman's womb, she was struck by lgihtning (Heironeous stealing the children) sent from Heironeous. Hextors grasp had already begun and only one child was stolen by Heironeous. Then Corellan did the favor of masking the boy as an elf but he was still placed in a monestary of Heironeous to begin his training. My brother named him Himo Nailo which I have translated in the prophecy as "He who rides the Halo. Once again, haven't decided 100% what the halo is but am considering a white horse with exceptional intelligence and/or speed. But since he is a monk and can run almost as fast as a horse.... it doesn't make since... that is why i am holding off.
The best part is that my brother has heard bits and pieces of the prophecy and is confused. Also his character has had dreams about the Black Tower, Men Chanting and Lightning bolt striking. He thinks that the child born in his dream after the lightning strike is him, but really it is his twin brother. He has yet been close enough to see that the baby born is human. That I will save for a special day.
Anyway, I could go on and on because as I said before, starting saturday, I have 8 players. My wife, my brother and six friends. The campaign started in May of 2002. So it is going nicely, my only complaint is that we only get to play once a month and occasionally, only if i can't help it, not even once a month. Kinda rough but also helps my players anticipate and appreciate every moment of game time.
Dammit Scoti! Write something I'm allowed to read once in a while!
... and NO, I didn't read it though I am dying to!
