Enjoy!
GCS
Is it just my viewpoint ... or does Mina look cross-eyed in that extreme closeup?
Ya know she kind of does, hmm creepy...... though its almost like a magic eye.
When am I gunna see the GOD DAM SAILBOAT!!!
Look at their shapes. One looks like a hand in about the pick a piece and the middle rock has a face on it.
Because of Bev Doolittle I'm starting see the not so obvious stuff in art.
Lunitari's moon seems to hint at something too.
Is it just my viewpoint ... or does Mina look cross-eyed in that extreme closeup?
She's kinda got that wandering eye thing going on.
All in all though very nice. Like GCS though I have plenty of Mina here at home from GenCon.
Look at the hidden stuff in the background: Notice the rocks look like Khas pieces.
Look at their shapes. One looks like a hand in about the pick a piece and the middle rock has a face on it.
Because of Bev Doolittle I'm starting see the not so obvious stuff in art.
Lunitari's moon seems to hint at something too.
Is Kahs basically Chess? Or is it a completely different game? I took it as being chess as I finished the book, which is awesome. Also i noticed the back ground stuff hence the magic eye comment, but i figured it was one of those things that its just your eyes wanna recgonzie stuff thats not really there (ex the face in the fire on the World Trade Centers looking like the devil and what not)Thanks
GCS
Is Kahs basically Chess? Or is it a completely different game? I took it as being chess as I finished the book, which is awesome.
Khas is similar to Chess, except you play it on a hexagonal field (and hence the pieces are a little different in how they are moved). More Leaves From the Inn of the Last Home has a wonderful little chapter all about Khas and how it is played.
I also remember that there used to be a Khas program, but I can't recall where I got it from.
I like the Mina depiction used on the cover of Dragons of a Fallen Sun, specifically I liked her face. Mina's face in the new Amber and Ashes cover is just ... unattractive in some way.
Could it be the whole look of her sayin "Hey fifty bucks will get you, a wild sex filled night with the girl who as seen into the mind of a god, and eternal life"? Not to mention she almost looks paralized.
GCS
Could it be the whole look of her sayin "Hey fifty bucks will get you, a wild sex filled night with the girl who as seen into the mind of a god, and eternal life"? Not to mention she almost looks paralized.
GCS
That's probably it. I like nice girls in bad outfits ... Mina is just a bad girl in a nice outfit.
What you people are forgetting is that she's fooling around with a D-E-I-T-Y.
Heck, Tanis bowed to the Dark Queen and so did Odilia. They'd probably have fooled around with her if she asked them/told them to.
You have to learn to put yourself in their shoes. If your god was kicked out of the heavens then killed, you'd want revenge (obviously). Then some other god comes along and says "Ya know, you should work with me." then procedes to seduce you. Heck, a god thinks you're hot. That's gotta be worth something.
Or say your husband of 30 years has barely ever been around. You know that his primary love is magic and you're just second banana to some moon. You've dealt with that and moved on. You've also dealt with the fact that your husband is gone for months and months at a time and never even bothers to write you to tell you "I love you" or "I miss you". What you can't deal with is when he disappears for nearly a year without writing or telling anyone where he's going. After 30 years of that kind of treatment, any kind of love starts to look like a good idea. I'm not saying what Usha did was right, but it is understandable.
Beyond that, I never hear cries of "Tanis is a skank" or "Sturm is a skank" for the whole Kitiara thing. Whatabout all of Caramon's "conquests" that are mentioned in Chronicles? Nobody calls him a skank. Doublestandarding bastages. Basically what I see here is a trend. Men can do whatever they want, and they're never skanks. Women, if they show any kind of sexuality AT ALL, are branded skanks. I think that if the people calling Kitiara or Mina a skank ever met a girl like them terms like "Dream Girl" would come to mind.
So from now on, every time I hear about someone fooling around with someone else, that they aren't in a long term relationship with, I'm supposed to call them a *****? Is that how this works?
tl;dr- Mina is only a skank if Sturm is a skank.
-TRRW
All I hear is "Mina is such a skank" and "Mina is a moral-less prostitute".
What you people are forgetting is that she's fooling around with a D-E-I-T-Y.
Heck, Tanis bowed to the Dark Queen and so did Odilia. They'd probably have fooled around with her if she asked them/told them to.
You have to learn to put yourself in their shoes. If your god was kicked out of the heavens then killed, you'd want revenge (obviously). Then some other god comes along and says "Ya know, you should work with me." then procedes to seduce you. Heck, a god thinks you're hot. That's gotta be worth something.
Sounds about right to me.
Or say your husband of 30 years has barely ever been around. You know that his primary love is magic and you're just second banana to some moon. You've dealt with that and moved on. You've also dealt with the fact that your husband is gone for months and months at a time and never even bothers to write you to tell you "I love you" or "I miss you". What you can't deal with is when he disappears for nearly a year without writing or telling anyone where he's going. After 30 years of that kind of treatment, any kind of love starts to look like a good idea. I'm not saying what Usha did was right, but it is understandable.
Beyond that, I never hear cries of "Tanis is a skank" or "Sturm is a skank" for the whole Kitiara thing. Whatabout all of Caramon's "conquests" that are mentioned in Chronicles? Nobody calls him a skank. Doublestandarding bastages. Basically what I see here is a trend. Men can do whatever they want, and they're never skanks. Women, if they show any kind of sexuality AT ALL, are branded skanks. I think that if the people calling Kitiara or Mina a skank ever met a girl like them terms like "Dream Girl" would come to mind.
So from now on, every time I hear about someone fooling around with someone else, that they aren't in a long term relationship with, I'm supposed to call them a *****? Is that how this works?
tl;dr- Mina is only a skank if Sturm is a skank.
-TRRW
Your comparisons aren't valid. Sturm was never married, Usha is. Caramon and Tanis never cheated on their spouses during their marriages, Usha did.
I'd go back and fix it, but as its been block quoted there's no real point.
To start up more debate: Would people have rather had Usha get a divorce?
-TRRW
The Tanis, Caramon, and Sturm comments weren't related to the Usha one, just came after it due to poor formatting on my part. They were supposed to be in reference to everyone calling Kitiara a skank.
I'd go back and fix it, but as its been block quoted there's no real point.
-TRRW
Oh. In that case, I agree with you.
EDIT: Sweet. Just realized this was my 1,000th post. God I need a life.
Your comparisons aren't valid. Sturm was never married, Usha is. Caramon and Tanis never cheated on their spouses during their marriages, Usha did.
Actually, Caramon tried with Crysania but since they were in the past I guess you could say it wasn't "during" his marriage with Tika :D
(yes, I know, they didn't end up together but he was tempted all the same and if she hadn't turned him down, I bet he would have gone the whole way)
Mina is only a skank if Sturm is a skank
Hey, give the kid a break. He wasn't a knight yet when that happened. And since he was just back from the moon, he was bound to do foolish things :D
Besides, I don't recall Kitiara saying "no", nor telling Tanis about it when they met again years later.
All I hear is "Mina is such a skank" and "Mina is a moral-less prostitute".
What you people are forgetting is that she's fooling around with a D-E-I-T-Y.
Heck, Tanis bowed to the Dark Queen and so did Odilia. They'd probably have fooled around with her if she asked them/told them to.
You have to learn to put yourself in their shoes. If your god was kicked out of the heavens then killed, you'd want revenge (obviously). Then some other god comes along and says "Ya know, you should work with me." then procedes to seduce you. Heck, a god thinks you're hot. That's gotta be worth something.
Or say your husband of 30 years has barely ever been around. You know that his primary love is magic and you're just second banana to some moon. You've dealt with that and moved on. You've also dealt with the fact that your husband is gone for months and months at a time and never even bothers to write you to tell you "I love you" or "I miss you". What you can't deal with is when he disappears for nearly a year without writing or telling anyone where he's going. After 30 years of that kind of treatment, any kind of love starts to look like a good idea. I'm not saying what Usha did was right, but it is understandable.
Beyond that, I never hear cries of "Tanis is a skank" or "Sturm is a skank" for the whole Kitiara thing. Whatabout all of Caramon's "conquests" that are mentioned in Chronicles? Nobody calls him a skank. Doublestandarding bastages. Basically what I see here is a trend. Men can do whatever they want, and they're never skanks. Women, if they show any kind of sexuality AT ALL, are branded skanks. I think that if the people calling Kitiara or Mina a skank ever met a girl like them terms like "Dream Girl" would come to mind.
So from now on, every time I hear about someone fooling around with someone else, that they aren't in a long term relationship with, I'm supposed to call them a *****? Is that how this works?
tl;dr- Mina is only a skank if Sturm is a skank.
-TRRW
Ok first I don't believe Tanis would have because he said, he was reluctant to bow, but its a Goddess, so he was compelled to. So, yes i can understand sleeping the with a God thing. I mean if a Goddess tried to sleep with me evil or not (though Godess of the dead might have me sickened a little, she still wouldn't be dead.)I have to admit I would prob go for it too. As you have not read the book yet you don't know how Skankish she is, my good friend. So you should gather your info b4 you slap back.
She sleeps with everyone she "changes" for Chemosh, its like part of the deal or somthing, as do the people who change sleep with the people they change.. its almost like an undead orgy.
As for Usha, ya know what TRRW, if your gf disappeared on you for a year or was gone off and on over the next 5yrs and then dissappeared for almost a year, and I saw you going off to galavant with another woman I would be just as angry with you. The fact is she was supposed to been inlove with him and understanding of him. She knew of his love for magic, she had pleanty of times to either divorce him, or anything, she knew it was his destiny to bring magic back into the world. She knew he was going to do it, she should never have cheated on him. And apperantly she had not delt with it and moved on or she wouldn't have cheated on him!
Next Tanis is a skank, I have said this several thousand times, a skank and a fool. But even then not so much skank as it was only 2 women, not every woman in the Heros of the Lance.
Sturm not a skank as its only one woman, and as u said with Mina (seduction)
You can't be a skank for sleeping with one woman your whole life, heck its prob the ONLY time Sturm got laid.
What do you mean nobody ever calls Caramon a skank as I remember they did through out Chronicals telling him to stay away from Tika, as he is much more experianced than her, and he was a skank back in his day, but after that he basically setteled down. He never cheated on his wife, sure he had an urge but it didn't happen. So hes a pig for even trying, there its been said.
So I guess that basically obliterates and answers all your questions, its not a double standard. Its just that right now those two are the ones in the light, i would be raising the same flag of war if Caramon had cheated on Tika, and been mad if Tanis had cheated on Laurana with Kit, b4 she died, not cause i like Tanis but because i like Laurana. And my dream girl is far from being a girl that sleeps around, I don't think I know any intellegent guy whos dream girl sleeps around. But if thats your dream girl TRRW, then maybe you should go back to that ex that slept with TBRAM.
To answer you final quetion, yes Usha and Palin should get divorced and she can go back to her guy in Haven, if hes so much better than the great Palin Majere, who gave up his magic for her, who was tortured for almost a year for her, and who was gone so much looking for magic, so that he could make the world safe for HER AND THIER FAMILY. Incase you forgot that is why he wanted magic, so that the world was safe for her and thier children. He was gone for her, he went looking for magic for her, when she was in Haven, was she in that guys bed for Palin.... I think not!
Edit: As a closing remark skankism isn't who you sleep with, its how many... in other words Quantity, not Quality.... so Caramon(reformed), Kit, Mina= Skank vs Tanis, Sturm, Raist, Laurana, Tika= not Skank.
GCS
Hey, give the kid a break. He wasn't a knight yet when that happened. And since he was just back from the moon, he was bound to do foolish things :D
Besides, I don't recall Kitiara saying "no", nor telling Tanis about it when they met again years later.
As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure she was saying "yes" most of the time knowing Kit. Also she was the one who tricked him into it.
GCS
That's assuming there is such a thing in the Krynnverse.
If, as I suspect, there isn't, then Usha's actions are exactly what happened in the medieval world with women trapped inside loveless marriages - clandenstine affairs.
Of course, that's no guarantee that she told him.
Dezra Majere knows about it though.
After all, if everybody behaved in fiction like we wish they would in life, we wouldn't have a lot of drama, would we?
Cheers,
Cam
Usha's actions in Prisoner of Haven reflect an unfortunate reality in our own world that many of us will hopefully not have to experience, but which some of us may have done. I believe the subject of infidelity is never as clear-cut and easy to address as we might like, and looking at it from the point of view of an objective outsider we might fault her choices, but we shouldn't dismiss her as a character. Emotions, especially in relationships, are volatile, fragile, and often extremely susceptible to perceived hurt and wrongdoing. While I am not sanctioning Usha's infidelity, I believe that it was a very brave (and very Dragonlance-themed) decision on behalf of the author to include it in the plot.
After all, if everybody behaved in fiction like we wish they would in life, we wouldn't have a lot of drama, would we?
Cheers,
Cam
Like i have said yes we do need drama in DragonLance hence why the continent is in ruins. Though I do have to agree the author is very brave by including this in her story, knowing full well she would probably upset tons of fans. But doesn't stop me from not likeing it. I'm not saying that she is a bad author or anything I just don't like the Usha cheating on Palin, cause she was one of my fav characters, and it seems like all my fav characters get ruined, the only two who haven't were Laurana, and Corran Horn from Star Wars. The sad part is that infidelity is how we act in the real world. I should probably just shut up about it, because unless I get 5000 dollars its not going to change (Tracey Hickman said he would have it all be a dream, and not really happen if i paid him 5000 bucks).
Though what was said earlier that there prob is no divorce in DL, I think it proves everyone wrong when they say that Palin's first love was magic, by the fact he doesn't kick her out when he finds out about it. Basically, its just mentioned as a minor scandal, that has been resolved. That I don't really like, I think it was more than minor and I think there should have more to it. But like I said not much I can do about it, I just am really sad that it happened.
GCS
PS: Ulin Majere = Skank too(see a guy is a skank)
I know infidelity is a reality, but it's not one that needs to be shown as a minor thing, escpecially to the youth who read these books. The way it sounds like it's handled in the book is like it's no big deal and it can be all sorted out with a few nice paragrahs. The truth of the matter is that it breaks Trust, which is one of the conerstones of any relationahip, especially a marriage. You take out that conerstone, or damage it in any way, and the whole building becomes unstable. There's no quick and easy fix to it. If the foundation of my house were damaged it could be fixed, but it would never be the same. I just don't think that it's something that should be portrayed so lightly and easily remedied, because it's not.
EXACTLY, thank you, this is my whole problem with it. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!1!
How is Ulin, hasn't he had like two wives now both of which he had a child with and ditched? If not, then i guess i am mistaken.
GCS
And man, if i had to marry Lucy, i'd have left too.
Heck, Tanis bowed to the Dark Queen and so did Odilia. They'd probably have fooled around with her if she asked them/told them to.
For the record...Huma refused her.
Mina, however, is a child...and Chemosh (whether he loves her now or not) took advantage of her youth and inexperience. Mina may have been powerful and charismatic...but she's got one fatal flaw, she has no sense of self worth...so she is nothing on her own.
You know...her seduction...it's like the college kids come back home for summer break and steal your high school sweet hearts from you. They're wise in the realms of seduction and coersion...and you and your girls are stupid. (read: young, naive, impressionable, etc.) :D Chemosh totally played her, she fell for it hook, line, and sinker...then it came around and bit him in the ass. But, just because he loves her now doesn't make what he did alright. At least, that's how I perceived what happened. I've only just started on book 2, "Ashes"...so I'm only about 100 pages in or so.
It's not handled like that at all. Have you read the book? It's one of the major subplots. Usha agonises over her feelings for ages, we get a glimpse at how her marriage deteriorated.
Afterwards, she regrets the decisions, sort off. Dezra is absolutely furious, and sees it as a betrayal of the family.
For the record...Huma refused her.
Mina, however, is a child...and Chemosh (whether he loves her now or not) took advantage of her youth and inexperience. Mina may have been powerful and charismatic...but she's got one fatal flaw, she has no sense of self worth...so she is nothing on her own.
You know...her seduction...it's like the college kids come back home for summer break and steal your high school sweet hearts from you. They're wise in the realms of seduction and coersion...and you and your girls are stupid. (read: young, naive, impressionable, etc.) :D Chemosh totally played her, she fell for it hook, line, and sinker...then it came around and bit him in the ass. But, just because he loves her now doesn't make what he did alright. At least, that's how I perceived what happened. I've only just started on book 2, "Ashes"...so I'm only about 100 pages in or so.
Well having finished it, basically you are right! I say you are right in every shape and form on this Brim.. from the story to the college kids, thats how life is. Doesn't keep her from being any less of as skank though. Even Chemosh realizes she is eventually too!
GCS
The way it sounds like it's handled in the book is like it's no big deal and it can be all sorted out with a few nice paragrahs.
It's not handled like that at all. Have you read the book? It's one of the major subplots. Usha agonises over her feelings for ages, we get a glimpse at how her marriage deteriorated.
Afterwards, she regrets the decisions, sort off. Dezra is absolutely furious, and sees it as a betrayal of the family.
I think your talking about somthing different. What he meant by it all being sorted out in a few paragraphs was Palin, and Usha talking about it and Palin finding out about it.... as in A&A its mentioned as ... "There was appearently a scandal involving Palin's wife, but it had pretty much been settled." or somthing to that affect.
Reading Wizard's Conclave now, I once again see Palin's love he HAS ALWAYS had for Usha, and how his love for her is so strong, he probably forgave her, and said he understood, since he had his love for magic. Though I'm sure it is a wound for him that will never heal. Much like Dalamar's marks for his betrayal.
GCS
For the record...Huma refused her.
Mina, however, is a child...and Chemosh (whether he loves her now or not) took advantage of her youth and inexperience. Mina may have been powerful and charismatic...but she's got one fatal flaw, she has no sense of self worth...so she is nothing on her own.
You know...her seduction...it's like the college kids come back home for summer break and steal your high school sweet hearts from you. They're wise in the realms of seduction and coersion...and you and your girls are stupid. (read: young, naive, impressionable, etc.) :D Chemosh totally played her, she fell for it hook, line, and sinker...then it came around and bit him in the ass. But, just because he loves her now doesn't make what he did alright. At least, that's how I perceived what happened. I've only just started on book 2, "Ashes"...so I'm only about 100 pages in or so.
A SPOILER posting would have been nice!!!!!
It's not handled like that at all. Have you read the book? It's one of the major subplots. Usha agonises over her feelings for ages, we get a glimpse at how her marriage deteriorated.
Sorry, I haven't read the book. I was only going by what GCS and others were saying. There didn't seem to be any remorse expressed by anyone on her part. Sorry, but there are few things that fire me up more than infidelity...well maybe blatant stupidity.
A SPOILER posting would have been nice!!!!!
Sorry, I haven't read the book. I was only going by what GCS and others were saying. There didn't seem to be any remorse expressed by anyone on her part. Sorry, but there are few things that fire me up more than infidelity...well maybe blatant stupidity.
Its not really a spoiler if you think about it. That is if you have read the cover, the Prologue, which was released online and was a link from here. And also if you had read any interview with Maragret, not to mention other threads on this board. As for the other part I already stated what I meant.
GCS
Ah, but Amber and Ashes is a Mina book, not a Palin/Usha book, so we can't expect it to go into it.
If Palin or Usha ever feature in a future book, I think we'll see a more detailed resolution of it.
Hmm...at the conclusion of the Linsha Trilogy, I wonder if Linsha will return to Solace at some stage...what will her reaction be?
Maybe some of by bias against Palin shows(Because I actually don't like him.. not since he took the Test have I liked him) but I personally do believe it is his fault. I know a lot of you wouldnt agree, but I think its horrible what he did to his family.
I can't believe Green Cloaked Sorceror said that Usha should have never done anything because Palin was doing everything for her . If I'm not mistaken, he practiced magic because of how it felt for him, not because of other stuff. yes he liked to help others, hence the white robe, but ultimately the magic burned in his blood and not searching for it was an option he didn't accept. It wasn't said anywhere that he absolutely had to be the person to find the new magic.
Another thing I have a problem with is when people tell everyone what they would do in a situation without ever being in that situation. There have been literally hundreds of times that someone has said what they would do, but when the situation comes around, they look at it a different way and decide to do something else. I don't think there a very many people here on the boards who can relate with what Usha went through. I can't even fathom having to go through that with a person i loved, so I don't try to judge her. Yes cheating is morally wrong, but I also think that people can make bad judgements and be forgiven for them. Especially ones that aren't so clear cut. Many of you may see this as clear cut, but I don't. Emotions and feelings are very tricky. Trying to spend my whole life with someone who I loved, without them ever being around and having a first love(magic) would maybe make me accept happiness when it was thrown literally at my feet. Id unno, as I said I havent been in the situation, but I do think its trickier than "this is wrong, you deserve to rot in hell for it".
And now after all the events that happened to Palin.. barely spending time with his family, his addiction for magic, etc.. he expects everything to be fine with his wife because he just now realizes that his wife should be the most important thing in his life? Psshh.. there's room for forgiveness.. but he cannot expect everything to be just as he left it 30 years before or whatever. People grow..and not always in ways expected.
I dunno I'm sure this reply will get Palin defenders going, but thats ok. As I said before, I don't like him anyways. The coolest part of his story I personally think is what is going on with him now. I'm glad he learned this "lesson" and is at home with his family. Not every hero needs to turn out well, honorably, or perfect. I think this kind of controversy adds flavor to the otherwise chivralous world.
However, it should be noted that Usha never knew any other humans when she was growing up, and was probably rather naive in relationship terms.
Therefore she probably had an idealised view of love, one which is very rarely fulfilled.
But I agree Palin's pursuit of magic was done for himself, mainly. Look at his reactions to his brothers and father in "The Legacy".
A SPOILER posting would have been nice!!!!!
Well, seeing as how that information is given on the sleave of the book, I didn't think it was necessary. Sorry.
Reading Wizard's Conclave now, I once again see Palin's love he HAS ALWAYS had for Usha, and how his love for her is so strong, he probably forgave her, and said he understood, since he had his love for magic. Though I'm sure it is a wound for him that will never heal. Much like Dalamar's marks for his betrayal.
So basically Palin is a sucker for Usha ? What book did this(Usha cheating.) occur in ?
~~~
Prisoner of Haven (Age of Mortals series)
His first love was magic, yes until he met Usha, then he fell totally for her, it was said so in Summer Flame. It also said in Summer Flame that HE was going to be the one to bring Magic back into the world. Tak, in the form of Fizban said it was upto him to find it, though this could also be interperted as the people of Krynn, but who knows. It proved that Palin all along love Usha more than magic, by giving it up when the Gods came back.
Anywho who knows, I still don't like it but thats not going to change it. Just hope they go into it deeper, and let us see how the two repented to each other and forgave eachother.
GCS
Check out her picture on the cover of Prisoner of Haven. Usha is three years older than Palin!
If my wife still looked like that in her sixties, I'd be a sucker for her too...
:D
So basically Palin is a sucker for Usha
Check out her picture on the cover of Prisoner of Haven. Usha is three years older than Palin!
If my wife still looked like that in her sixties, I'd be a sucker for her too...
:D
Bah. That's why if you're a virile human male you don't ever go for human females. You go for the elven babes. Sure their people are racist xenophobes, but doesn't that make the chase all the more exciting? One of the best parts is that you know your elven wife will never get fat (when's the last time we saw a fat elf?), and even when you're 99 years old and three-quarters dead, your elven wife will still look as good as when you first laid eyes on her back when you were 19.
(Note: Usha born 359 AC - current year, 422 SC, that makes her 63)