Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 npc_dave Sep 02, 2004 21:32:53	I have been reading over GAZ2 and piecing together as much as possible Suleiman Al-Kalim's campaign to unite the Alasiyan tribes and throw out the Alphatian and Thyatian occupiers. It seems as if the Alphatians occupied Surra-Man-Raa and Jaboor, and possibly the oasis at Abbashan. They Thyatians held Tameronikas, Cubia, Ctesiphon, and Tel Akbir. One or both of them(at various times), held Fabia. The rest of Ylaruam was not occupied. So Al-Kalim, from his central oasis(now the capitol), captures Parsa, Cinsa-Men-Noo, and Ctesiphon. In addition to the Makistani, it is a good bet he allied the fighting fennecs, who are probably a big key to how he pulled off what happened next. He attacks the Alphatian provinces, probably driving them away from Abbashan and besieges Jaboor. Their cavalry defect to him, his Makistani bowmen disrupt the Alphatian mage units(who would not be the best Alphatia has) until he can charge them with his horse warriors. He takes Jaboor, and the Alphatians abandon Surra-Man-Raa. Most Alphatians depart for their homeland or the Isle of Dawn. Now he spends three years besieging the Thyatians, who apparently aren't getting much support from the Emperor, despite the fact they are close. These sieges are harder, the troops are better quality, plus the Thyatians grant citizenship to Alasiyans, and after 700 years or so, the locals in Thyatian controlled lands will have some sympathies to Thyatis. With dwarven advisors, he eventually captures Fabia, Cubia, and Tameronikas. He makes no attempt to take Tel Akbir, probably too well-entrenched, too likely to attract full Thyatian might. Perhaps Thyatian citizenship wasn't extended to the Alasiyan people beyond Tel Akbir, making it easier to take the northern lands, and much harder to take Tel Akbir. Tel Akbir is certainly richer land, but that makes it more likely the Thyatians will fight. Anyone care to comment/disagree/make suggestions?
#2 spellweaver Sep 03, 2004 4:49:07	I like it. But I find it hard to believe that the Thyatians were defeated simply because they did not receive proper reinforcements from home. Where Thyatis fighting another war somewhere else at the time that might draw away resources? Or maybe Al Kalim got help? (apart from the dwarves). It says somewhere that during his quest for immortality he imprisoned several efreeti in bottles that are now scattered all across the Known World. Perhaps already in his early years did he have the favour of some powerful Djinni og immortal, who helped him? :-) Jesper
#3 chimpman Sep 03, 2004 10:14:28	Good points brought up by Spellweaver. I've always thought that it was strange that the Thyatians controlled the western half of the IoD while the Alphers controlled the eastern half of it, and yet the Alphers managed to send troops over to occupy Ylaruam. Perhaps back then the Alphers controlled the eastern and north western portions, and the reason the Thys weren't able to send more troops into Ylaruam was because they were too busy fighting on the IoD.
#4 npc_dave Sep 03, 2004 14:04:16	I like both of your ideas. Having Al-Kalim befriend a djinni early on, gives him a powerful ally that would help with "treasonous intrigue" which were used to pry open those Thyatian walls. It also makes sense that Alphatia would need a supply line from their Ylari colonies to home. However, those colonies do exist for 600-700 years, we don't need to assume that they had part of the western half of the Isle of Dawn the entire time if that conflicts with other Isle of Dawn timelines. Those colonies could be reinforced by magic or navies. But at the time of Al-Kalim, a Thyatian offensive on the Isle of Dawn that gains territory would encourage the Alphatians to abandon Ylaruam, while also making it more likely the Thyatians would have less resources to hold desert in order to take richer land on the Isle of Dawn.
#5 npc_dave Sep 03, 2004 14:07:14	And don't forget that fighting fennecs have the special ability to reroll a dice(either friend or foe) once a day. A brigade of fennecs on the battlefield ought to translate to at least one reroll on the WarMachine tables, or a few in Battlesystem, or whatever mass combat system you use.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2004 15:17:17	Don't forget the factor that conversion may have played. You're dealing with a religious movement as much as a nationalist movement. Al-Kalim was a very charismatic leader with an optomistic spiritual message. It probably resonated as much with native Alphatians and Thyatians as Ylari. Alphatia and Thyatis are amoral societies where much of your life's situation depends on class status, where the lower classes are born to serve. Al-Kalim was offering something better. Dumping reinforcements into a losing battle only to see a significant number of them desert and join the other side probably became very old to both empires very quickly. I imagine the only way Thyatis kept hold of Tel Akbir was by keeping it under martial law, locked down very carefully. Another possibility is that Alphatia, or some remnants of the Alphatian military stationed in Ylaruam, may have aided the Ylari after their defeat. Possibly as a term of surrender, or maybe just to spite the Thyatians. ("If we can't have it, they can't either.") R.A.
#7 Cthulhudrew Aug 16, 2005 3:54:25	I've been searching through the old threads to find some fodder for the FAQ, came across this thread, and had to respond. I've been thinking about these things for a while now, myself, for various reasons (notably, a story/series of stories I have been pondering writing about Al-Kalim's history). I came up with some ideas of my own about the campaign (notably pinning down a more specific locale for the village of Kirkuk, based on its history as given in the Gaz), but it is really interesting to read your theories. Dave, have you come up with any more ideas/theories on the progression of the campaign in Ylaruam? I'd love to hear them.
#8 npc_dave Aug 16, 2005 20:14:18	No, I didn't progress beyond this discussion, although I really liked all the ideas that people suggested. I basically wanted to integrate Ylari materials as late as the lupin article with what was originally in GAZ2. Running a military campaign during Al-Kalim's time would be quite interesting. Although I initially disliked GAZ2 because it didn't detail the ruling elite, it has grown on me over the years. Whenever the PCs visit Ylaruam, I can always find interesting plot hooks just by leafing through the book. I placed Kirkuk central-west Ylaruam along the caravan road/trail, west of the capital.
#9 Cthulhudrew Aug 17, 2005 0:39:49	Although I initially disliked GAZ2 because it didn't detail the ruling elite, it has grown on me over the years. Whenever the PCs visit Ylaruam, I can always find interesting plot hooks just by leafing through the book. I completely agree. While there are still areas where I wish it had more detail (NPC rulers, cities/towns, sites), I have found that it has grown on me a lot as well. The amount of detail they put into Kirkuk is incredible. I placed Kirkuk central-west Ylaruam along the caravan road/trail, west of the capital. That's where I initially had it, but finally decided that the suggested location (borderland region near the foothills of the Altan Tepes) worked the best, given a) the east-west trade route through the village, b) the ruins of a Thyatian fort in the village, and c) the history of the village. The map mentions that the village was liberated from Thyatis by Al-Kalim in 829 AC, which puts the Kirkuk Campaign after the Jaboor Campaign (828), and in the period of campaigns against Thyatis, culminating in the Siege of Tameronikas in 830 AC. It just seems more likely that Al-Kalim and his armies stayed in the southeastern portion of Ylaruam during those campaigns, rather than trekking back northwest. (Not impossible, of course, given their mobility. I'm not much of a military historian, but it occurs to me suddenly that the British army pulled all the way back to Portugal for around a year when their initial drive into French-occupied Spain didn't go well.)
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2005 7:25:00	Dumping reinforcements into a losing battle only to see a significant number of them desert and join the other side probably became very old to both empires very quickly. I imagine the only way Thyatis kept hold of Tel Akbir was by keeping it under martial law, locked down very carefully. R.A. Another reason why Thyatis held on to Tel Akbir and Biazzan could have been because of geography. While the Thyatian colonies were probably bordered, for the most part, by the escarpment to the north (running from Ctesiphon to just west of Tameronikas), access to Biazzan is restricted to one or two mountain passes, and Tel Akbir is reached over land by the relatively narrow stretch of land between the mountains and the Western Sea of Dawn. The escarpment would have been a long border to defend, made all the more difficult by the activties of sympathisers to Al-Kalim's cause (many of them converts to the Eternal Truth, for reasons cited in other posts in this thread). Once it became clear that the colonies could not be held, I would think that the Thyatian armies would have fallen back to the passes in the west, and fortified a line south of Tameronikas. There, Al-Kalim's forces would have been easier to repulse, and that would probably have been where the border was drawn. Just my $0.02 Geoff