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#1ividSep 03, 2004 12:42:55 | As I am getting deeper and deeper into the world of Greyhawk, but as a third generation DM lack reliable sources and modules, I wrote together some questions, I hope you find ocasión to answer... 1. Does a adventure module or sourcebook exist that contains information concerning the lost Kingdom of the Gray Elves, Aliador? 2. What do Greyhawk players know about the Elf - Drow wars thousands of years ago? 3. Who is Dragonus really? 4. What connection is between Azalin (from Ravenloft) and Oerth? 5. When did the Orcs come to the Bone Marshes? 6. What do we know about the Troll Fenns south of the Griff mountains? 7. Do exist any rules explaining the "First Magic" used by the ancient elves? 8. Do the Drow of Oerth and Toril speak in the same language? 9. Who is Vecna II.? 10. Are there sort of original heroes for Greyhawk? I mean, are there quests that unique, special characters like Robilar or Mordenkainen (don't forget Otto!) are supposed to have completed? And did this become part of the official canon, like for example the Dragonlance or Birthright characters did? |
#2zombiegleemaxSep 03, 2004 13:02:19 | 8. Do the Drow of Oerth and Toril speak in the same language? According to Spelljammer (quasi modular setting), Yes. As well as pretty much every race although varying dialects of the original derivative, base language exist throughout the universe (and even amongst the same countries inhabiting planets one would assume.) |
#3HalberkillSep 03, 2004 15:05:24 | I'll answer what I can.1. Does a adventure module or sourcebook exist that contains information concerning the lost Kingdom of the Gray Elves, Aliador? Not that I know of, where did you get that info from? 2. What do Greyhawk players know about the Elf - Drow wars thousands of years ago? Most commoners in Greyhawk don't even know what a drow is. Whereas in other settings you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a drow, they are very rare and secretive in GH. Maybe only elf PC's or ones that have taken a skill point of knowlege history would have knowledge of the elf-drow conflict, yet they still may think drow are no longer existant. 4. What connection is between Azalin (from Ravenloft) and Oerth? Azalin was a noble of the Great Kingdom who did evil things enough to get him sucked into the demi-plane of dread. There was a Ravenloft novel that told most of his story. 5. When did the Orcs come to the Bone Marshes? Well the Glossography states that they overran the Bone March in 563 cy (about 30 years ago). Though they probably were around alot longer, but never enough to take over. 6. What do we know about the Troll Fenns south of the Griff mountains? They are the perfect breeding grounds for trolls, and every so many years their population reaches saturation and they pour out into Tenh. 9. Who is Vecna II.? That is a nickname given to someone who had the hand and eye of Vecna attached to himself, and went insane thinking that he was the real Vecna. 10. Are there sort of original heroes for Greyhawk? I mean, are there quests that unique, special characters like Robilar or Mordenkainen (don't forget Otto!) are supposed to have completed? And did this become part of the official canon, like for example the Dragonlance or Birthright characters did? Other than the pre-generated characters that came with some of the modules, not really. The whole thing about Greyhawk is that it's focused more on YOUR character as opposed to some iconic developed by marketing. Halber |
#4MortepierreSep 04, 2004 3:34:14 | 4. What connection is between Azalin (from Ravenloft) and Oerth? I am glad you asked. Azalin (or "Firan Zal’honan" as he was known back then), was the Azal’Lan of Knurl. "Azal'Lan" means "wizard-ruler" in Old Oeridian. Though a lich and evil, he ruled justly (albeit with an iron fist) his kingdom and protected it from all would-be conquerors (including the Great Kingdom) as long as he could. Till he could no more (429 CY) and had to flee. The "mists" gave him a one-way ride to Ravenloft where he "lives" still as the ruler of Darkon. 6. What do we know about the Troll Fenns south of the Griff mountains? Every 25 years (or so, it's not an "exact" timing), the mists and fogs of the fens grow thick and hundreds of trolls sweep into Tenh and/or the Theocracy of the Pale, slaying all in their path. Not even Iuz's fiends venture in the Troll Fens, though there are said to be a few hundred escaped Tenh warriors and folk hiding there. There are also half-ruined old Flan settlements said to predate the growth of fens. Some sages say that those ruins may hold books of very rare Flan lore concerning weather-affecting magic. They have been an integral part of several scenarii played in the Living Greyhawk Campaign - Pale region. 10. Are there sort of original heroes for Greyhawk? I mean, are there quests that unique, special characters like Robilar or Mordenkainen (don't forget Otto!) are supposed to have completed? And did this become part of the official canon, like for example the Dragonlance or Birthright characters did? Sure there are. Maure Castle (recently converted to 3.5 in Dungeon #112) was a location first visited by Mordenkainen .. and with less than stellar results :D Tibarian Matreyus, of Gradsul, led an expedition in 582-584 CY to explore the Amedio jungle (that's my personal favorite). Castle Greyhawk was were many now famous heroes (and villains) of EGG campaign cut their teeth. The henchmen of the Circle of Eight completed what I think was the toughest quest of all: prevent Vecna from dominating the entire Oerth pantheon! (events described in WGA4 Vecna Lives!) A group of mighty heroes (most of Furyondy) infiltrated Dorakaa to recover Earl Holmer, Knight Commander of the Shield Lands (WGR6 City of Skulls) Other heroes, recruited by Tenser, acquired the Crook of Rao in time to prevent an interplanar invasion of Oerth by Iggwilv (WG6 Isle of the Ape). The same Crook was later used by Canon Hazen of Veluna to banish most fiends from Oerth, which allowed Furyondy to reconquer territories lost during the wars. There is the famous Commandant Osson, whose actions delayed for a time the invasion of Almor by the Great Kingdom during the last war. Etc... Oerth's history is filled with heroes (and villains). Far too many to be summarized here. Of course, some of these were supposed to have been completed by players but they were deemed to "have happened" and were integrated into canon. |
#5ividSep 04, 2004 4:49:32 | Thank you very much! This info will help me making my campaigns feeling more *canonical*. There are few things that make me angrier (as a DM) as if you spent your days breaking your head about adjusting some info to the canon or invent it by yourself, and then one of the players comes up with something like *but wasn't it like this*/ *but in the novel I read those people did it...* I am currently spending my time reading the old Oerth Journals and a data I picked from the web called *History of the Great Kingdom* very worth reading (as always, can't remember where I got it from... :weep The timelines in OJ 1 and in HoGK feature many events and characters of interest, like for example the Four Elven Realms (to Halberkill: this was the point that led me to ask question 1, not that I had heard from an existing source) or Azalin's fate. The problem I am facing now is that those timelines (BTW, on Kartagane Net I found a very interesting Ravenloft timeline that features events that had to do with Oeridian history) don't show clearly where the information they list is coming from - if it was the setting of a player campaign, subject to an entire sourcebook or just an annotation in another work... Thanks again! |
#6max_writerSep 04, 2004 5:16:14 | I sent a annotated timeline to Oerthjournal some time ago that has not yet seen print. Each entry noted the source it came from and only a few were speculative dates on my part. The thing is massive (60+ pages rough guess) but all of it based on various "official" sources. Due to its size, I'm not sure if it will ever see print. I continue adding to it as new sources (mostly Dungeon or Dragon Magazine) come out. |
#7ividSep 04, 2004 5:54:17 | Such a timeline would be great!!! :D :D :D Such lists seem to exist for almost every rpg world EXCEPT WoG! Players, especially those that started when Wizard had WoG already dropped (and that was some mmh, 5 years ago, I think) desperately need it! I think people at Cannonfire are doing really GREAT work, yet I got the impression that behind every issue of Oerth Journal there is a rather chaotic ;) history of origin... Such a mag, of course, may not come up with a new issue to often and may not feature to much of the same stuff to keep it worth reading. Anyway, such a timeline should be included in an upcoming issue. Still, OJ is great and the only real thing that keeps WoG from tumbling down into oblivion. *how pathetic that sounds * |
#8zombiegleemaxSep 04, 2004 7:48:51 | Such a timeline would be great!!! :D :D :D Actually it does exist in the form of the Greychronodex - a timeline of all the canon historical references by Mr Steve Wilson. http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/tamerlain/Greyhawk/GreyChrondex41.html IIRC Steve was also the guy who came up with the more apocrophal timeline detailing the Grey Olve realms such as Aliador. These aren't offical canon, so there's little additional information about them. Still if they float your boat, there's no reason not to have them in your campaign. At the end of the day every GM is a heretic. PS: Further on some of your other questions: Azalin was the second son of the Count of Knurl and a vassal of the Overking of Aerdy. When he took power, he declared his fief effectively independant from the rule of Rauxes and conquered several surrounding fiefs in the Flinties, Bone March etc. The weakness of the incumbant Rax overking allowed this to happen (the Bandit Kingdoms were calving off from the Empire about the same time). He was undone however, when his armies marched on Innspa. His lieutenant betrayed him and he was forced to flee into the Adri, where the Mists whisked him off to Ravenloft. Which just goes to show that if you're a wizard/lich king - never trust your trusted lieutenant. The big troll swarms in the Troll Fens are called Troll Winters. The Pentress (Dour and Low?) Keeps of Tenh and Brilliant Keeps of the Pale were built to deal with the threat. I don't know where you got the First Magic reference, but in 3E terms it sounds like sorcerous arcane magic rather than wizardly magic - ie innate, rather than learned. P. |
#9cebrionSep 05, 2004 7:11:15 | ...And of course The Temple of Elemental Evil was originally solo'd by Robilar himself, to a disastrous end from the persective of the Circle of Eight and the forces of weal. You might just find a nod to his Robilar-ness in the form of a discarded shield within the depths(or should I say outer reaches) of the evil ediface. |
#10zombiegleemaxSep 05, 2004 7:56:21 | Disasterous for the Circle of Eight and the forces of weal you say? Since when have those two groups been synonymous? P. |
#11ividSep 05, 2004 18:00:53 | Thanx! The link is superb! That's what I was searching - more or less BTW I think first magic is mostly identical to what they call power of soul in famous DL setting... |
#12cebrionSep 08, 2004 2:39:21 | Disasterous for the Circle of Eight and the forces of weal you say? Never. They just happened to have a common enemy. More of an enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing(though Tenser, Bigby, and maybe Serten had a bit of influence there as well- I'm not up on who exactly participated in the whole imprisonment thing). I don't see one or the other making an alliance any time soon with the Iuz-Iggwilv-Zuggtmoy trio, so I would say that they were buds at the time. They still have some ties due to the ascendance of Iuz. Some goals they will always have in common. |
#13carlancoSep 13, 2004 12:30:04 | Every 25 years (or so, it's not an "exact" timing), the mists and fogs of the fens grow thick and hundreds of trolls sweep into Tenh and/or the Theocracy of the Pale, slaying all in their path. I have my campaign set in 583 CY. Does anybody knows when was the last "Troll winter"? Saludos, Gabriel |
#14MortepierreSep 14, 2004 3:09:26 | No date was given in the Iuz the Evil accessory (at least I think so). From what I can gather from the website of the Theocracy of the Pale RPGA setting, they had a Troll Winter in 593 CY. That would place the last one around the year 568 CY. Since there are no "canon" date though, place yours whenever it suits you best. My latest Nyrond campaign began in 585 CY and I made a Troll Winter happen in 586 CY to liven things up a bit in the north. |
#15thanaelSep 15, 2004 10:42:44 | 3. Who is Dragonus really? Never heard of that? where's it from? 4. What connection is between Azalin (from Ravenloft) and Oerth? others already ansewered this. The Book is King of the Dead by Gene deWeese. Read the book, it's actually quite good. 9. Who is Vecna II.? Check the Vecna Lives! adventure. 10. Are there sort of original heroes for Greyhawk? I mean, are there quests that unique, special characters like Robilar or Mordenkainen (don't forget Otto!) are supposed to have completed? And did this become part of the official canon, like for example the Dragonlance or Birthright characters did? While it`s true that GH mostly leaves the current adventures to the players, there are quite some GH luminaries who have completed some quests. Check out Randy Taylor's great Greyhawk Module Notes for notes on what adventure where completed and how. Most pre-generated characters from those adventures have risen to some fame. Warnes Starcoat who recently joined the circle of eight recovered the crook of rao from the isle of the ape after it was lost there by tenser and consorts i believe. Rakehell Chert recently rose to fame in Onnwall, and was also in the party to return the crook. Check out Powerful Personages of Oerth for some highlevel personages (and sources). Then there are the Heroes of Old, mostly from Gygax' gaming group: Robilar, Mordenkainen, Erac's Cousin, Melf, the old Circle/Citadel of Eight and their henchmen. They completed some of the old adventures, i.e. ToEE, Castle Greyhawk, Maure Castle, etc... and others. There's some nice fiction of Robilar adventuring with Mordenkainen in the Oerth Journals. The articles where titled Robilar Remembers. There was another article featuring Erac's Cousin's adventures. Here's a link to the articles: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~monax002/Council/OJ6/city.html http://www.tc.umn.edu/~monax002/Council/OJ5/erac.html And last not least although by far not canon, still worth a mention is Gord the Rogue from the great novels. Read about them here or better get them on ebay. (The ones by Gygax mind you, first 2 are by Tsr, last 5 by New Infinities. No Rose Estes please!) |
#16ividSep 16, 2004 2:01:25 | Thank you! The lists are really useful! Dragonus was a mysterious man that appeared to the Grey Elves and showed them the essence of the new magic. He vanished after changing into a Platinum (?) Dragon. I wonder if he is a god. |