Having nothing better to do, I've compiled a list of the truly personally powerful people of Dragonlance (and the sourcebooks from which they're listed/detailed), which for these purposes is defined as anyone (excluding dragons and deities) having 17+ Hit Dice and/or Class Levels.
Format is as follows:
character level - Name: race class level [template] (sourcebook)
27 - Raistlin: Human Wizard 7/Black Robe 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5 [Master of the Tower] (Legends)
23 - Ariakas: Human Wizard 5/Fighter 2/Knight of the Thorn 10/Legendary Tactician 3/ Dragon Highlord 3 (WotL)
23* - Chieftain Donnag: Ogre titan Fighter 12/Sorcerer 7 (AoM)
22 - Fistandantilus: Human Wizard 7/Black Robe 10/Archmage 5 (ToHS)
22 - Hammerfall: Hill giant Barbarian 10 (WotL)
21 - Sir Liam Ehrling: Human Fighter 5/Cleric 1/Crown Knight 5/Sword Knight 5/Rose Knight 5 (AoM)
21 - Vincil da Jevra: Human Wizard 5/Red Robe 6/Loremaster 5/Archmage 5 (ToHS)
20 - Ariakan: Human Fighter 5/Knight of the Lily 10/Legendary Tactician 5 (Legends)
20 - Beldinas Pilofiro, Kingpriest of Istar: Human Cleric 13/Righteous Zealot 7 (Legends)
20 - Dhamon Grimwulf: Human (mostly) Fighter 5/Knight of the Lily 3/Rogue 3/Rogue Knight 9 (AoM)
20* - Franatik: Sivak Fighter 7/Sorcerer 7
20 - Lord Yarus Donner, High Clerist: Human Cleric 10/Knight of Solamnia - Sword 10 (Legends)
20 - Master of the Tower of Wayreth: Human Wizard 15/Archmage 5 [Eldritch Emissary](ToHS)
20 - Mina: Human Cleric 12/Righteous Zealot 8 (AoM)
20 - Mornag the Decrepit: Ogre Mage Mystic 15 (AoM)
19 - Goldmoon: Human Mystic 9/Citadel Mystic 10 (AoM)
19 - Justarius: Human Illusionist 8/Red Robe 8/Archmage 3 (Legends)
19 - Ladonna: Human Enchanter 7/Black Robe 9/Archmage 3 (Legends)
19 - Par-Salian: Human Wizard 6/White Robe 10/Archmage 3 [Master of the Tower] (Legends)
18 - Jorelia: Human Wizard 5/White Robe 8/Archmage 5 (Legends)
18 - Kitiara: Human Fighter 12/Dragon Rider 3/Dragon Highlord 3 (Legends)
18 - Palin Majere: Human Sorcerer 7/Academy Sorcerer 10/Master Ambassador 1 (AoM)
18 - Lorac Caladon: Silvanesti elf Noble 6/Abjurer 6/White Robe 6 (WotL)
17 - Antimodes: Human Wizard 5/White Robe 9/Loremaster 3 (ToHS)
17 - Dalamar the Dark: Silvanesti elf Wizard 7/Black Robe 10 (AoM)
17 - The Inquisitor: Human Cleric 12/Inquisitor 5 (WotL)
17 - The Jaguar: Human Rogue 17 (WotL)
17 - Salah-Khan: Human Ranger 5/Assassin 10/Dragon Highlord 2 (WotL)
17 - Lord Soth: Human Fighter 7/Rogue Knight 10 [Death Knight] (WotL)
17 - Tdarnk: Ogre Barbarian 8/Fighter 5 (DLCS)
* There are differing levels given for this character, I've listed the highest character level version here.
Cool list, but why would you have Fistandantilus be of lower level than Ariakas? I don't think there's nessecarily anything wrong with it it's just that I would have put Fisty as the higer ranking character.
If it were up to me, I would have placed Fisty at a higher level than Ariakas.
With the exception of Raistlin's level, all of the levels I listed were the official stats as given by Sovereign Press (of which I am not a part).-TRRW
We've been over this though... Raist's character level has to be at least 39 at his peak due to the description of the Timereaver spell.
Or the spell needs tweaking.
Or Raistlins status as the MoPaP (hehe) bypasses the rules of the spell.
Or the spell needs tweaking.
Or Raistlins status as the MoPaP (hehe) bypasses the rules of the spell.
Or, people can just deal with a level 39 character. Sheesh, what's everyone's big "OMG Raist can't be over level 26" kick? Let the man have his power.
-TRRW
Or, people can just deal with a level 39 character. Sheesh, what's everyone's big "OMG Raist can't be over level 26" kick? Let the man have his power.
Huh? I didn't say anything like that. Those are just options. If it were up to me Raistlin would be level ~60 by the time he confronts Takhisis.
We've been over this though... Raist's character level has to be at least 39 at his peak due to the description of the Timereaver spell.
-TRRW
Normally I'd agree. Many people here had placed Raistlin and Fistandantilus at roughly the same power levels, with Raistlin being several levels higher than Fistandantilus. Given Fistandantilus' now official level of 22, I can guarantee you that Raistlin will be nowhere near level 39, despite the description of Timereaver. I'd be surprised if, when we receive his official stats, Raistlin is even in the 30s.
Regardless, this thread is about all the level 17+ characters of Krynn ... so let's try and leave discussions of Raist's level in that other thread, deal?
Going by the 'end/peak of their powers', then....
Kith Kanan- Silvanesti (it is what he was borne as) level 12 Ranger/Level 10 Noble
Huma- Level 7 Knight of the Crown/Level 12 Paladin (note, I use Paladin's as a Prestige Class so that it becomes a calling by hte gods, not a chosen character class).
Truth is, I think there is too much multiclassing when it comes to giving character descriptions to the point it is becoming obscene to me. A "Level 3 this/level4 that/Level 2 other thing/Level 5 that too" is just becoming bad character development.
If we go by 2nd edition,
Par-Salian is lvl 18
Justarius is lvl 17
Ladonna is lvl 17
After Raistlin, I imagine the highest level Heroes of the Lance are Caramon and Tanis.
If we go by 2nd edition,
Par-Salian is lvl 18
Justarius is lvl 17
Ladonna is lvl 17
Are any of the above three statted out in Towers of High Sorcery? I won't be getting my copy for another few days and I lack patience.
Didn't someone mention Jenna of the Red Robes being in that book? AFAIK this would be the first D&D statting out of Jenna.Are any of the above three statted out in Towers of High Sorcery? I won't be getting my copy for another few days and I lack patience.
Yes, Jenna's in the Towers of High Sorcery sourcebook. She has levels in the new spell broker PrC as well as a certain template that is introduced in the book.
Cheers,
Cam
Hey Cam...it's after the release...would you please let us know what level she is...and what template it is you are talkin about?
Master of the Tower. Nifty little template. I'll leave the 'splainin' to others.
Hey Cam...it's after the release...would you please let us know what level she is...and what template it is you are talkin about?
She's a wizard 5/wizard of High Sorcery (Red Robes) 6/spellbroker 5. She has the Master of the Tower template, too, so her total CR is 17.
Cheers,
Cam
You'll have to bump down the HD limit if you want Jenna on the list
There you go illithranos.
You'll have to bump down the HD limit if you want Jenna on the list
Damn.
Meh, I'll keep the minimum at 17 HD ... maybe after her Wizards' Conclave adventures Jenna managed to gain a level ... unless of course her level as listed already takes that into account.Damn.
Yes, it does. She's not Master of the Tower of Wayreth until after that book. You could go by ECL, in which case Jenna would be ECL 18...
Cheers,
Cam
Yes, it does. She's not Master of the Tower of Wayreth until after that book. You could go by ECL, in which case Jenna would be ECL 18...
Cheers,
Cam
Duh. That's what I get for posting at 3 am in the morning.
Hehe, if I went by ECL, Donnag would be 29th.
Brings up an interesting point. Dalamar used to be Master of the Tower of Palanthas, he isn't anymore, obviously. Should he have this templet and lose the benifits, or lose it all together and transfer any LA he would have had into levels (accounting why he's so much higher than Jenna). Just idle curiosity.
Eh? Dalamar is so much higher? Did Dalamar get a level boost in ToHS? 'Cause there's only one level of difference between Dalamar and Jenna, unless you're talking spellcasting levels (I'm guessing spellbroker doesn't have a full spellcasting progression).
I am still wondering if the novels are going to coincide with the gaming side of dragonlance concerning the ogre titans... Cheif donnag is listed as a titan, yet in Richard's minotaur trilogy their has been no mention of the events in rise of the titans...
Over on the dragonlance.com boards, there was mention by people that had talked with RK that the ogre titans would make some sort of appearance in the third book of the trilogy.
Brings up an interesting point. Dalamar used to be Master of the Tower of Palanthas, he isn't anymore, obviously. Should he have this templet and lose the benifits, or lose it all together and transfer any LA he would have had into levels (accounting why he's so much higher than Jenna). Just idle curiosity.
The Master of the Tower template states that an Ex-Master of the Tower does indeed lose all benefits of the Template, including level adjustments.
Wait wait wait...Ariakas is a Knight of the Thorn?! How'd *THAT* happen?!
He's not really a Knight of the Thorn, he just has levels in the prestige class to reflect the fact that although he is a wizard he receives his power from Takhisis in a way similar to that of a cleric. He is in essence, the prototype for the later Knights of the Thorn that would be created by his son. Thus it is an elegant solution to the quandary of whether Ariakas was a Cleric or a Wizard ... turns out he's something of both.
Wait wait wait...Ariakas is a Knight of the Thorn?! How'd *THAT* happen?!
I always encourage folks to read the whole thread first before they freak out, Jacen.
Cheers,
Cam
I always encourage folks to read the whole thread first before they freak out, Jacen.
Cheers,
Cam
Dude, I did read the whole thread; it never mentioned anything about Ariakas, except for his class levels.
Dude, I did read the whole thread; it never mentioned anything about Ariakas, except for his class levels.
Ah, right! I'm confusing this thread with another one - my bad. Still, now you know.
Cheers,
Cam
Also, you spelt Vincil's first name incorrectly...
Wow. I never pictured Antimodes as that powerful.
Also, you spelt Vincil's first name incorrectly...
Yeah, I didn't peg him as that powerful either when I read Soulforge.
Oops, just fixed Vincil's name.
Yeah, I didn't peg him as that powerful either when I read Soulforge.
*lol* I've always found the disparity between how a person is described in game terms and how that person is in a novel to be quite funny.
If we'd been going by game terms, it would have taken Sir Marto several dozen axeblows to kill Vincil, not one, and Vincil's magic items would have made even that a difficult proposition. In his game stats, Vincil had some spells prepared that would have blown the knights to smithereens had he thought to cast them.
Obviously, the needs of a story dictate that Vincil, Leciane, or any other mage can't just go around casting forcecage or prismatic wall whenever they require it, but still, it is funny how different character in game stats and in a novel can be so different.
*lol* I've always found the disparity between how a person is described in game terms and how that person is in a novel to be quite funny.
True, but most events in novels can still be simulated using existing game mechanics.
If we'd been going by game terms, it would have taken Sir Marto several dozen axeblows to kill Vincil, not one, and Vincil's magic items would have made even that a difficult proposition.
Well, we're given Vincil's stats on p. 117 of the ToHS and his listed AC is 15 (protective magic items included in that AC and no real defensive spells prepared) and he's got 70 hit points. If Sir Marto was say:
a 15th level fighter,
Strength 18,
with a masterwork battleaxe, and
weapon focus & weapon specialization (battleaxe), plus
power attack,
he'd have a +21/+16/+11 attack with that axe normally. With power attack 6 and wielding the axe two-handed, Sir Marto would have:
+15/+10/+5 melee with 1d8 + 20 on a regular hit, or
+15/+10/+5 melee with 3d8 + 60 on a critical hit.
If Marto got lucky (which seems the case from the battle), with a crit he could do enough damage to drop Vincil in a single blow (Marto as statted above caps out at 84 points of damage maximum on a critical hit at power attack 6).
In his game stats, Vincil had some spells prepared that would have blown the knights to smithereens had he thought to cast them.
And he did blow the knights to smithereens! Quite a few knights were burned, incinerated, frozen and dismembered in the fight. Game-wise, I'd say that Vincil simply ran out of offensive spells and his defensive spells were waning if not entirely expended (there were only 7 wizards versus 150+ Solamnic Knights, Ergothian soldiers, and Istaran Knights of the Divine Hammer) when Marto got in his lucky (i.e. critical hit) strike.
Figured I'd update this list started waaay back now that our poster boy (Raistlin) has been statted out.
Still not sure if I should add in the "alternate" characters into the list, but I probably eventually will.
I was just surprised that Raistlin wasn't maxed out in the Black Robe PrC. I thought he'd be level 30, with 10 levels of that PrC. Everything else looks just about right. Good job on the write up.
He wasn't that committed to the Order of the Black Robes. He was more interested in his own path - which is why he's got levels in loremaster and archmage.
Cheers,
Cam
TJ
I think its cool that they stated salh-khan to be honest with you. Black dragon highlord who had his face blown off by a wizard. Never heard a whole lot about him. Does it say much about him in the new supplement book?
TJ
He wasn't that committed to the Order of the Black Robes. He was more interested in his own path - which is why he's got levels in loremaster and archmage.
That does make sense. So how come, after all of his time spent reading books, his Loremaster discontinues at 8? Is this to represent the fact that his life was so short, so he never really completed anything (short of Archmage)? I must say, 27 is still a surprisingly high number given his short life. He was an ambitious little bugger.
That does make sense. So how come, after all of his time spent reading books, his Loremaster discontinues at 8? Is this to represent the fact that his life was so short, so he never really completed anything (short of Archmage)? I must say, 27 is still a surprisingly high number given his short life. He was an ambitious little bugger.
It wasn't his short life so much as his drive to only do as much as he needed to before moving on to deeper and more powerful things. Raistlin got what he needed from the Orders, and from books, and then from the high arcana. It's best not to think of prestige classes as things you have to complete, but as representative of the amount of commitment, energy, or interest the character has in that narrow field of skill.
Cheers,
Cam
Salah-Khan's the Green Dragon Highlord. Lucien's the Black Highlord. Some products mix these around a little - Lucien is often listed as the White while Salah-Khan is listed as the Black, but these inconsistencies were sorted out in the War of the Lance sourcebook.
Really? I know some of the things I have are very dated. But I know it mentioned him in the old 2ed ?companions of the lance? box set as being the black dragon highlord. Yuo know the one that has the raistlin siting on a log with caramon behind him talking to him with the rest of the heros siting by a campfire. And also in the novel "The Black Wing" it specifically mentions him in the that book and how he managed to to decieve his way to the top. And I though an ogre guy was the green dragon highlord? So who is Lucien?
tj
So who is Lucien?
Lucien's a half-ogre from Takar who became the Black Dragon Highlord because of his experience with the ogres and his skill at being a mercenary captain. The ogre highlord you're thinking of is Hullek Skullcrusher, the successor to Salah-Khan after the War.
All of these minor inconsistencies were ironed out in the War of the Lance sourcebook. That product supercedes the old 2nd edition Tales of the Lance boxed set in all respects.
Cheers,
Cam
Cool list, but why would you have Fistandantilus be of lower level than Ariakas? I don't think there's nessecarily anything wrong with it it's just that I would have put Fisty as the higer ranking character.
I found that odd also. No disrespect to Ariakas but Fistandtilus, (I hate 'Fisty'), in my opinion based on their roles in the novels, easily outranks Ariakas in both power and stature.
Interesting.
I found that odd also. No disrespect to Ariakas but Fistandtilus, (I hate 'Fisty'), in my opinion based on their roles in the novels, easily outranks Ariakas in both power and stature.
Interesting.
Fisty's still the better caster (22 levels), since Ariakas only has 15 caster levels, despite having one more character level. If it were up to me Fisty would have more character levels ... but it isn't. ;)
It wasn't his short life so much as his drive to only do as much as he needed to before moving on to deeper and more powerful things. Raistlin got what he needed from the Orders, and from books, and then from the high arcana. It's best not to think of prestige classes as things you have to complete, but as representative of the amount of commitment, energy, or interest the character has in that narrow field of skill.
Cheers,
Cam
Wow that was really good Cam, It is really deep and I never thought about PrCs like that... Thank you.
Ah, right! I'm confusing this thread with another one - my bad. Still, now you know.
Cheers,
Cam
just tell him to read the book (WotL right?)
there's a very specific reason he has thorn knight levels before there's thorn knights ...
*wolf hopes he's got the right npc, he needs to get back to work ... writting lesson plans*
Does it give these guy stat???
Lord Soth would have a few levels of Noble, and at least 6 levels of fighter. Then he would have entered the Knighthood, hence a at least one level of Crown Knight (mabey two or three), followed Knight of the Sword at least three levels, then Rose Knight levels. After reviewing his story he would have at least 5 Rose levels. While the story leads me to think 9 levels of Rose, he was high up in the order but not the top guy, yet. I would even suggest a level or two of Legendary Tactician for him.
So 6 fighter, 1 crown, 3 sword, that is 10 to bedome just a Rose knight. I could see him having 17 levels (7 being Rose Knight). Then add 1 level for Noble, by birth and at least 1 level for Legandary Tactician, now he is at 19 and it all fits his back story.
Then he turned undead. That only is worth a couple of levels. To further my case against his low rating, I do not think he stopped earning levels upon undeath, he kept going out andkilling things.He became the Dark Queen's toy and one of her (or Chemosh's) champion. He rocked Ravenloft when he went there, and while he admitted that Raist was his better in the second set, he did not back down to Lord Ariakas when they met. He knew more magic than a standard Death Knight should, had more power than the standard Death Knight. I think that his standing in the ranks of the dark forces and amount of power he had would be worth at least a couple of levels.
Hence is Lord Ariakas is going to be rated as a 23,then Lord Soth should be rated at least 20 to 22 levels.
Just a thought about one of the great powers that gets over looked a lot. I feel that he went from a powerfull champion of good to a leading champion of evil and only got more powerfull from there.
I welcome your feed back.
Oh and a quick thought on the Dracos debate, Fist was the most powerfull wizard in history before Raist, but Draco removed himself from history. hence he could have been stronger than both. After all he erased himself to where a Greater Goddess could not touch him. I would but him (with templates) in the upper 30's to lower 40's, after all he did not follow any of the rules.
I know you gathered your information from various books, and I have not always agreed with some source books. I only ask for you consideration the following.
Lord Soth would have a few levels of Noble, and at least 6 levels of fighter. Then he would have entered the Knighthood, hence a at least one level of Crown Knight (mabey two or three), followed Knight of the Sword at least three levels, then Rose Knight levels. After reviewing his story he would have at least 5 Rose levels. While the story leads me to think 9 levels of Rose, he was high up in the order but not the top guy, yet. I would even suggest a level or two of Legendary Tactician for him.
So 6 fighter, 1 crown, 3 sword, that is 10 to bedome just a Rose knight. I could see him having 17 levels (7 being Rose Knight). Then add 1 level for Noble, by birth and at least 1 level for Legandary Tactician, now he is at 19 and it all fits his back story.
I'm guessing the reason he lacks any Knight of Solamnia levels is because he traded them all in for Rogue Knight levels.
Then he turned undead. That only is worth a couple of levels. To further my case against his low rating, I do not think he stopped earning levels upon undeath, he kept going out andkilling things.He became the Dark Queen's toy and one of her (or Chemosh's) champion. He rocked Ravenloft when he went there, and while he admitted that Raist was his better in the second set, he did not back down to Lord Ariakas when they met. He knew more magic than a standard Death Knight should, had more power than the standard Death Knight. I think that his standing in the ranks of the dark forces and amount of power he had would be worth at least a couple of levels.
Hence is Lord Ariakas is going to be rated as a 23,then Lord Soth should be rated at least 20 to 22 levels.
Just a thought about one of the great powers that gets over looked a lot. I feel that he went from a powerfull champion of good to a leading champion of evil and only got more powerfull from there.
I welcome your feed back.
Lord Soth as a 17 HD character is official, but it was as of the middle of the War of the Lance. Whether or not you believe Soth travelled to Ravenloft (M&W say he never did), it's more than likely he managed to acquire a few levels during his decades there. So an 20 HD Lord Soth seems reasonable for his Age of Mortals stats.
Eh? Dalamar is so much higher? Did Dalamar get a level boost in ToHS? 'Cause there's only one level of difference between Dalamar and Jenna, unless you're talking spellcasting levels (I'm guessing spellbroker doesn't have a full spellcasting progression).
Yes the Spellbroker PrC has full spell progression and a buttload of bonus item creation feats. :fight!:
~J
I am still wondering if the novels are going to coincide with the gaming side of dragonlance concerning the ogre titans... Cheif donnag is listed as a titan, yet in Richard's minotaur trilogy their has been no mention of the events in rise of the titans...
Spoiler Space
Actually there is a little tidbit in there in that that Golgren has figured out that the titans need elves to maintain their abilities and he is sorta acting as their supplier but also using it to exert power over them.