Diabolus and the Demiplane of Nightmares - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Diabolus and the Demiplane of Nightmares

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2004 19:57:29 Hey there fellas (and ladies),

So in order to find out some information to make my search easier, I figured I'd go to the best source of Mystara knowledge known to man. (That being an off-handed compliment.)

1. So I need to know where the diabolus first appeared, and where they might have appeared besides their original place and the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix.

2. Can you also tell me where I can find more information on Mystara's Demiplane of Nightmares than what is provided in the Rules Cyclopedia.

I so wish I didn't have to sell most of my Mystara stuff a couple years ago.

Thanks guys!
#2
kheldren
Sep 08, 2004 2:28:19 1. Going on memory here - but I think it was the Master DM's book, if not then the gold Immortal boxed set.

2. Probably not - except that it is not a plane. (NB this is memory based on the gold-box Immortals set - the best info source for this.)
The D&D multiverse allows for the shifting of dimensions (all spacial dimensions).
We currently occupy dimensions 1, 2 & 3.
We could shift to 2, 3 & 4 - which looks very odd - we appear 2-dimensional to people in 1, 2 & 3 - check out the Astral plane description in the gold-box Immortals rules.
Carrying on you get 3, 4 & 5 then 4, 5 & 6, 5, 6 & 7 etc.
Or you should - in fact you don't - trying to shift into dimension 6 or above pulls the person (all dimensions) into the Dimensional Vortex - something that appears as a vast maelstrom. Without going into more detail, there is a barrier stopping travel up the dimensions.
Now the creation of this barrier had side effects, the main one being that life started evolving going the other way - i.e. having home dimensions 5, 4 & 3. (In practice this is identical to 3, 4 & 5).
Because it has it's own set of life etc this dimension set has a name: The Dimension of Nightmares.
Because it is very different (very different evolution) creatures from the Dimension of Nightmares tend to look very wierd etc. and (when wandering in the normal dimensions) they have a collective label "Nightmare Creatures".

So what could be called the plane of Nightmares should actually be referring to the Dimension of Nightmares.

I hope ths helps, but the original Immortals rules had all of the outer planes info and boy could it get complex.

If you really want to wierd out your players the astral plane should do it nicely - you remain in dimensions 1-3, but your perceptions all get shifted one notch - to 2-4 so you look 2D in a 3D world (and getting area of effect spells to target is a pain and takes practice). Just to confuse Nightmare creatures are in 3-5 but see in 2-4 and there are a few native astral creatures wandering around in 2-4.
#3
havard
Sep 08, 2004 9:32:45 The whole dimensions thing got dropped in WotI, which IMO was okay, since I never really understood it any way. Basically, the Dimension of Nightmares is a place filled with things that are generally horrid-looking to the human eye, most of them are also evil. Brain Collectors, Malfera and Diaboli are AFAIK the only known creatures who are officially native to the Dimension of Nightmares. Beholders and other aberrations have also been suggested as creatures from the Dimension of Nightmares.

I notice that the original poster referred to the Demiplane of Nightmares rather than the Dimension of N. It was changed to Demiplane in the AD&D version of Mystara so it would fit with the AD&D cosmology. OD&D Dimensions are paralell Multiverses, containing a number of planes. Those kinds of Dimensions are still around in WotI, only the whole talk aboiut various planes having a varied number of dimensions has been dropped. It was confusing to have to concepts with the same name anyways.

The Diaboli are the equivalent of humans and demi-humans in the DoN. In spite of their demonic appearance they are not evil. In fact humans appear just as horrid-looking to the diaboli as the other way around. In the Almanac Timeline, a group of Diaboli settled in Norwold, though I'm not sure what happened to these in the Net Almanacs....

Håvard
#4
Vatras
Jan 10, 2009 9:38:19 Diabolus appeared first in the Immortals box (the golden rules set). That set is also the only source of information about the dimension of nightmares I am aware of (and which is not much). This is a place made from the 3rd, 4th and 5th dimension, while we live in a 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension place. The concept of warped dimensions was used only in the gold set, later editions of D&D and AD&D dropped it as being too complicated.
#5
havard
Jan 11, 2009 7:11:39
Diabolus appeared first in the Immortals box (the golden rules set). That set is also the only source of information about the dimension of nightmares I am aware of (and which is not much).

The Dimension of Nightmares also appears in Wrath of the Immortals. In the AD&D version of Mystara, it was renamed the Demiplane of Nightmares, hinting perhaps to some connection with Ravenloft?

So the sources of the Dimension of Nightmares would be:

Classic (BECMI) D&D Sources
D&D Master Rules (Malfera monster entry)
D&D Immortal Rules - Gold Box (Dimension of Nightmares and Diablo Entries)
D&D Wrath of the Immortals (Dimension of Nightmares and Diablo Entries + Harrow, see below)
IM3 - The Best of Intention ( Harrow, a Diabolus Immortal NPC)
PWA3 (Diaboblus community in Norwold)

AD&D2e Sources
Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (Reference to Demiplane of Dimension)
Mystara Monsterous Compendium (Diabolus for 2e)
Savage Coast Monsterous Compendium (Malfera for 2e)

3E Sources
Dragon # 327 Winning Races: Diaboli (Bringing Diaboli into 3.5E)

Havard
#6
dekesler
Oct 31, 2011 10:49:47 There is also mention of the Dimension of Nightmares in GAZ3 The Principalities of Glantri. The Craft of Illusion, One of the Seven Secret Crafts, revolve around the making use of the Dimension of Nightmares.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2004 19:57:29	Hey there fellas (and ladies), So in order to find out some information to make my search easier, I figured I'd go to the best source of Mystara knowledge known to man. (That being an off-handed compliment.) 1. So I need to know where the diabolus first appeared, and where they might have appeared besides their original place and the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix. 2. Can you also tell me where I can find more information on Mystara's Demiplane of Nightmares than what is provided in the Rules Cyclopedia. I so wish I didn't have to sell most of my Mystara stuff a couple years ago. Thanks guys!
#2 kheldren Sep 08, 2004 2:28:19	1. Going on memory here - but I think it was the Master DM's book, if not then the gold Immortal boxed set. 2. Probably not - except that it is not a plane. (NB this is memory based on the gold-box Immortals set - the best info source for this.) The D&D multiverse allows for the shifting of dimensions (all spacial dimensions). We currently occupy dimensions 1, 2 & 3. We could shift to 2, 3 & 4 - which looks very odd - we appear 2-dimensional to people in 1, 2 & 3 - check out the Astral plane description in the gold-box Immortals rules. Carrying on you get 3, 4 & 5 then 4, 5 & 6, 5, 6 & 7 etc. Or you should - in fact you don't - trying to shift into dimension 6 or above pulls the person (all dimensions) into the Dimensional Vortex - something that appears as a vast maelstrom. Without going into more detail, there is a barrier stopping travel up the dimensions. Now the creation of this barrier had side effects, the main one being that life started evolving going the other way - i.e. having home dimensions 5, 4 & 3. (In practice this is identical to 3, 4 & 5). Because it has it's own set of life etc this dimension set has a name: The Dimension of Nightmares. Because it is very different (very different evolution) creatures from the Dimension of Nightmares tend to look very wierd etc. and (when wandering in the normal dimensions) they have a collective label "Nightmare Creatures". So what could be called the plane of Nightmares should actually be referring to the Dimension of Nightmares. I hope ths helps, but the original Immortals rules had all of the outer planes info and boy could it get complex. If you really want to wierd out your players the astral plane should do it nicely - you remain in dimensions 1-3, but your perceptions all get shifted one notch - to 2-4 so you look 2D in a 3D world (and getting area of effect spells to target is a pain and takes practice). Just to confuse Nightmare creatures are in 3-5 but see in 2-4 and there are a few native astral creatures wandering around in 2-4.
#3 havard Sep 08, 2004 9:32:45	The whole dimensions thing got dropped in WotI, which IMO was okay, since I never really understood it any way. Basically, the Dimension of Nightmares is a place filled with things that are generally horrid-looking to the human eye, most of them are also evil. Brain Collectors, Malfera and Diaboli are AFAIK the only known creatures who are officially native to the Dimension of Nightmares. Beholders and other aberrations have also been suggested as creatures from the Dimension of Nightmares. I notice that the original poster referred to the Demiplane of Nightmares rather than the Dimension of N. It was changed to Demiplane in the AD&D version of Mystara so it would fit with the AD&D cosmology. OD&D Dimensions are paralell Multiverses, containing a number of planes. Those kinds of Dimensions are still around in WotI, only the whole talk aboiut various planes having a varied number of dimensions has been dropped. It was confusing to have to concepts with the same name anyways. The Diaboli are the equivalent of humans and demi-humans in the DoN. In spite of their demonic appearance they are not evil. In fact humans appear just as horrid-looking to the diaboli as the other way around. In the Almanac Timeline, a group of Diaboli settled in Norwold, though I'm not sure what happened to these in the Net Almanacs.... Håvard
#4 Vatras Jan 10, 2009 9:38:19	Diabolus appeared first in the Immortals box (the golden rules set). That set is also the only source of information about the dimension of nightmares I am aware of (and which is not much). This is a place made from the 3rd, 4th and 5th dimension, while we live in a 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension place. The concept of warped dimensions was used only in the gold set, later editions of D&D and AD&D dropped it as being too complicated.
#5 havard Jan 11, 2009 7:11:39	Diabolus appeared first in the Immortals box (the golden rules set). That set is also the only source of information about the dimension of nightmares I am aware of (and which is not much). The Dimension of Nightmares also appears in Wrath of the Immortals. In the AD&D version of Mystara, it was renamed the Demiplane of Nightmares, hinting perhaps to some connection with Ravenloft? So the sources of the Dimension of Nightmares would be: Classic (BECMI) D&D Sources D&D Master Rules (Malfera monster entry) D&D Immortal Rules - Gold Box (Dimension of Nightmares and Diablo Entries) D&D Wrath of the Immortals (Dimension of Nightmares and Diablo Entries + Harrow, see below) IM3 - The Best of Intention ( Harrow, a Diabolus Immortal NPC) PWA3 (Diaboblus community in Norwold) AD&D2e Sources Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (Reference to Demiplane of Dimension) Mystara Monsterous Compendium (Diabolus for 2e) Savage Coast Monsterous Compendium (Malfera for 2e) 3E Sources Dragon # 327 Winning Races: Diaboli (Bringing Diaboli into 3.5E) Havard
#6 dekesler Oct 31, 2011 10:49:47	There is also mention of the Dimension of Nightmares in GAZ3 The Principalities of Glantri. The Craft of Illusion, One of the Seven Secret Crafts, revolve around the making use of the Dimension of Nightmares.