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Lady of Pain vs. Artifacts

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2004 22:32:48 Simce it was been well established that The Lady has total control over Sigil and who can & cannot enter, can she negate the power of artifacts that find their way into Sigil? I haven't really seen anyone say either way with much to back it up. Anything with examples would be great.
#2
richard_k
Sep 08, 2004 1:08:27 I think maybe if the artifact was in Sigil itself she could probably just negate it. Though i spose if it was some big weapon you could fire it through a portal into Sigil, though then that brings the question of the Lady can pretty much open and close and move around the portals as she pleases. In the end i think its up to the Dm.
#3
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 08, 2004 1:46:08
Simce it was been well established that The Lady has total control over Sigil and who can & cannot enter, can she negate the power of artifacts that find their way into Sigil? I haven't really seen anyone say either way with much to back it up. Anything with examples would be great.

If the item is a threat to the city the artifact or the person with the artifact just don't get in by way of a portal, it won't open for them.

If it isn't a threat, The Lady wouldn't bother with it. There's no evidence to suggest she has that level of fine control over items in the city, but none to suggest that she doesn't. If it's not a threat though there's little likelyhood that she would bother with it at all.

There's one artifact of unknown make or origin, originally in the posession of the factol of the Believers of the Source, The Focrux, that appeared in 'Harbinger House' that cloaked that building from outside divination, including the ability of The Lady to observe what was happening within. Of course you might then treat the interior of Harbinger House as outside of Sigil in some ways since the moment you stepped outside or did anything that reached beyond the boundaries of the place The Lady would be free to act, and how... (At the end of the module the focrux was destroyed, a newborne god who had ascended to that state inside Harbinger House was shunted out of Sigil by way of the nearest portal (he hadn't done so out of malice), and those who had conspired to attain divinity themselves (for malice) were flayed).

Other artifacts: The Labyrinth Gem, created by the Lady of Pain to entrap the soul of one of the incarnations of Duke Rowan Darkwood in order to ensure that he killed himself by way of his own actions in a closed time-like loop created by The Lady.

The Shadow Sorcelled Key - said to have been an artifact capable of opening every lower planar portal in the Prime Ward (Lower Ward) at once. This actually happened around 1000-2000 years prior in the 'Clueless Rebellion' in that Ward before it was put down, with massive loss of life, by the Sodkillers and the Incanterium. The actual nature or even the existence of the key is a mystery since it is said to have vanished after the rebellion was quelled. It may simply function as a sort of universal portal key for the Lower Ward's lower planar portals, and still be subject, like all of the portals of Sigil, to the whim of The Lady of Pain, rather than being able to override Her absolute control. It may not even exist in the first place.
#4
voldenuit
Sep 08, 2004 4:11:16
There's one artifact of unknown make or origin, originally in the posession of the factol of the Believers of the Source, The Focrux, that appeared in 'Harbinger House' that cloaked that building from outside divination, including the ability of The Lady to observe what was happening within. Of course you might then treat the interior of Harbinger House as outside of Sigil in some ways since the moment you stepped outside or did anything that reached beyond the boundaries of the place The Lady would be free to act, and how... (At the end of the module the focrux was destroyed, a newborne god who had ascended to that state inside Harbinger House was shunted out of Sigil by way of the nearest portal (he hadn't done so out of malice), and those who had conspired to attain divinity themselves (for malice) were flayed).

Now I'm just curious as to how one would go about ascertaining that the artifact warded against the Lady's senses. It's not exactly as if a body can go up to her and ask, "Excuse me, Your Serenity, you didn't happen to overhear that plot we made last week to depose you, did you?"

Other artifacts: The Labyrinth Gem, created by the Lady of Pain to entrap the soul of one of the incarnations of Duke Rowan Darkwood in order to ensure that he killed himself by way of his own actions in a closed time-like loop created by The Lady.

Just as a corollary to the Sigil Spell powered by the Labyrinth Gem, there was some mention earlier back about the spell as a potential weakness of the Lady's. However, I see that as being a little unlikely, because The Lady seemed to have no reservations about leaving the final result of the spell in the hands of a bunch of mortals. I seems to me that the deus ex machinae in regards to Darkwood/Gifad/Wizard are intended more as "ironic punishment" than "self preservation".
#5
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 08, 2004 5:00:11
Just as a corollary to the Sigil Spell powered by the Labyrinth Gem, there was some mention earlier back about the spell as a potential weakness of the Lady's. However, I see that as being a little unlikely, because The Lady seemed to have no reservations about leaving the final result of the spell in the hands of a bunch of mortals. I seems to me that the deus ex machinae in regards to Darkwood/Gifad/Wizard are intended more as "ironic punishment" than "self preservation".

Indeed, The Lady of Pain was never once in danger by any of that. Perhaps it's telling that the module rather blatantly notes that any attempt to use the spell to remove The Lady or destroy the city, etc simply wouldn't work, that The Lady would prevent it. Heh.
#6
cthulu_mt
Sep 08, 2004 7:06:43 Don't forget the Spheri of Anhilation kept in the Armory by the Doomguard put to masterful use by Vecna.

And the Dream Shaft used by A'kin to get the PC's rolling on the Faction War was probably also an artifact.
#7
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 08, 2004 7:09:59
Don't forget the Spheri of Anhilation kept in the Armory by the Doomguard put to masterful use by Vecna.

And the Dream Shaft used by A'kin to get the PC's rolling on the Faction War was probably also an artifact.

Whoops, I'd forgotten about them actually. And heck I referenced the Nightmare Shaft in a post just the other day.
#8
Skikka
Sep 08, 2004 14:24:29 "Sodkillers and the Incanterium"

Wait, who?

*feels clueless*
#9
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 08, 2004 15:38:19
"Sodkillers and the Incanterium"

Wait, who?

*feels clueless*

Incanterium: aka The Magicians, aka The Wanters. Once a powerful faction that now exists as a small sect, its members scattered and rare. They believed that arcane magic was the key to unlocking the secrets of the universe and they researched it, hoarded it, and 'ate' magic. They went through a ritual of sorts, tied to their faction beliefs, that made them almost like living rods of absorption. They survived purely on draining magical power from others, and by it they didn't eat, sleep, or age but would starve and wither away if unable to eat magic. A side effect of this made their eyes appear to be liquid orbs of silvery magic.

The Incanterium, at the height of its power in Sigil roughly 500 years before the current time, was the strongest faction and then one day it was gone. Their faction headquarters, the Tower Sorcerous, was simply gone. The tower and the vast majority of the faction were mazed by The Lady of Pain. A scant few of them (notably Alluvius Ruskin) are still extant.

The Sodkillers: As I like to call them, The Once and Future Faction. Originally a faction till it merged with the Sons of Mercy to form the Mercykillers. However during the Faction War the Mercykillers split back into their original componants after Alisohn Nilesia vanished (sold into slavery by Rowan Darkwood).
#10
factol_rhys_dup
Sep 08, 2004 19:58:09 You could bring an artifact into Sigil, but if you intend to cause some kind of Sigil-threatening mischief, the portal will simply not admit you. If you spontaneously decide to start torching the place, she'll maze you, of course. She'll appear just in time and the city will simply shimmer away for you. And I hope it goes without saying that you can't use an artifact to stop her.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2004 2:03:49 In the Well of Worlds the Abishai Ar'kle-mens tries to lean on the PCs to carry his special made orb into Sigil: "He hopes the orb will destroy the wards the Lady of Pain has established around the city of Sigil...success means the City of Doors stands open to invasion from the lower planes and available for domination by anyone strong enough to take it." pg 22

Of course it doesn't work. Now, I'm not sure if a lowly Abishai can even build something of true artifact status, but then the adventure never states how many centuries (or potentially millenia) the poor sod worked at it so who knows. The orb crumbles to dust as the PCs reach Sigil. It is suggested on page 23 that the Lady neutralizes it as the PCs go through a portal. This is speculation on my part but I've always assumed that the Lady was aware of traffic through the portals. If (N)PCs tried to bring in an item dangerous to her/Sigil I would assume she wouldn't let it in. Or perhaps turn it to dust.

One can also interpret the way she "collects the music" from Darkwood in the Faction War that she is cognizant of at least some future events that will threaten Sigil. If something were going to be a great threat to her or the city I assume she would take action long before the threat manifested.

-Eric Gorman
#12
ripvanwormer
Sep 10, 2004 22:28:44 Don't forget the Chronosphere of Lagos, which the Prolongers would so dearly like to have.

And the big tree the Athar kept in the Shattered Temple.

I think it would be cool if Tarholt (the dwarven gemstone trader from Krynn) had the Greygem of Gargath and didn't know it, but that doesn't exist anymore officially and anyway it had a god in it. But it would be nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2004 22:32:48	Simce it was been well established that The Lady has total control over Sigil and who can & cannot enter, can she negate the power of artifacts that find their way into Sigil? I haven't really seen anyone say either way with much to back it up. Anything with examples would be great.
#2 richard_k Sep 08, 2004 1:08:27	I think maybe if the artifact was in Sigil itself she could probably just negate it. Though i spose if it was some big weapon you could fire it through a portal into Sigil, though then that brings the question of the Lady can pretty much open and close and move around the portals as she pleases. In the end i think its up to the Dm.
#3 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 08, 2004 1:46:08	Simce it was been well established that The Lady has total control over Sigil and who can & cannot enter, can she negate the power of artifacts that find their way into Sigil? I haven't really seen anyone say either way with much to back it up. Anything with examples would be great. If the item is a threat to the city the artifact or the person with the artifact just don't get in by way of a portal, it won't open for them. If it isn't a threat, The Lady wouldn't bother with it. There's no evidence to suggest she has that level of fine control over items in the city, but none to suggest that she doesn't. If it's not a threat though there's little likelyhood that she would bother with it at all. There's one artifact of unknown make or origin, originally in the posession of the factol of the Believers of the Source, The Focrux, that appeared in 'Harbinger House' that cloaked that building from outside divination, including the ability of The Lady to observe what was happening within. Of course you might then treat the interior of Harbinger House as outside of Sigil in some ways since the moment you stepped outside or did anything that reached beyond the boundaries of the place The Lady would be free to act, and how... (At the end of the module the focrux was destroyed, a newborne god who had ascended to that state inside Harbinger House was shunted out of Sigil by way of the nearest portal (he hadn't done so out of malice), and those who had conspired to attain divinity themselves (for malice) were flayed). Other artifacts: The Labyrinth Gem, created by the Lady of Pain to entrap the soul of one of the incarnations of Duke Rowan Darkwood in order to ensure that he killed himself by way of his own actions in a closed time-like loop created by The Lady. The Shadow Sorcelled Key - said to have been an artifact capable of opening every lower planar portal in the Prime Ward (Lower Ward) at once. This actually happened around 1000-2000 years prior in the 'Clueless Rebellion' in that Ward before it was put down, with massive loss of life, by the Sodkillers and the Incanterium. The actual nature or even the existence of the key is a mystery since it is said to have vanished after the rebellion was quelled. It may simply function as a sort of universal portal key for the Lower Ward's lower planar portals, and still be subject, like all of the portals of Sigil, to the whim of The Lady of Pain, rather than being able to override Her absolute control. It may not even exist in the first place.
#4 voldenuit Sep 08, 2004 4:11:16	There's one artifact of unknown make or origin, originally in the posession of the factol of the Believers of the Source, The Focrux, that appeared in 'Harbinger House' that cloaked that building from outside divination, including the ability of The Lady to observe what was happening within. Of course you might then treat the interior of Harbinger House as outside of Sigil in some ways since the moment you stepped outside or did anything that reached beyond the boundaries of the place The Lady would be free to act, and how... (At the end of the module the focrux was destroyed, a newborne god who had ascended to that state inside Harbinger House was shunted out of Sigil by way of the nearest portal (he hadn't done so out of malice), and those who had conspired to attain divinity themselves (for malice) were flayed). Now I'm just curious as to how one would go about ascertaining that the artifact warded against the Lady's senses. It's not exactly as if a body can go up to her and ask, "Excuse me, Your Serenity, you didn't happen to overhear that plot we made last week to depose you, did you?" Other artifacts: The Labyrinth Gem, created by the Lady of Pain to entrap the soul of one of the incarnations of Duke Rowan Darkwood in order to ensure that he killed himself by way of his own actions in a closed time-like loop created by The Lady. Just as a corollary to the Sigil Spell powered by the Labyrinth Gem, there was some mention earlier back about the spell as a potential weakness of the Lady's. However, I see that as being a little unlikely, because The Lady seemed to have no reservations about leaving the final result of the spell in the hands of a bunch of mortals. I seems to me that the deus ex machinae in regards to Darkwood/Gifad/Wizard are intended more as "ironic punishment" than "self preservation".
#5 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 08, 2004 5:00:11	Just as a corollary to the Sigil Spell powered by the Labyrinth Gem, there was some mention earlier back about the spell as a potential weakness of the Lady's. However, I see that as being a little unlikely, because The Lady seemed to have no reservations about leaving the final result of the spell in the hands of a bunch of mortals. I seems to me that the deus ex machinae in regards to Darkwood/Gifad/Wizard are intended more as "ironic punishment" than "self preservation". Indeed, The Lady of Pain was never once in danger by any of that. Perhaps it's telling that the module rather blatantly notes that any attempt to use the spell to remove The Lady or destroy the city, etc simply wouldn't work, that The Lady would prevent it. Heh.
#6 cthulu_mt Sep 08, 2004 7:06:43	Don't forget the Spheri of Anhilation kept in the Armory by the Doomguard put to masterful use by Vecna. And the Dream Shaft used by A'kin to get the PC's rolling on the Faction War was probably also an artifact.
#7 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 08, 2004 7:09:59	Don't forget the Spheri of Anhilation kept in the Armory by the Doomguard put to masterful use by Vecna. And the Dream Shaft used by A'kin to get the PC's rolling on the Faction War was probably also an artifact. Whoops, I'd forgotten about them actually. And heck I referenced the Nightmare Shaft in a post just the other day.
#8 Skikka Sep 08, 2004 14:24:29	"Sodkillers and the Incanterium" Wait, who? feels clueless
#9 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 08, 2004 15:38:19	"Sodkillers and the Incanterium" Wait, who? feels clueless Incanterium: aka The Magicians, aka The Wanters. Once a powerful faction that now exists as a small sect, its members scattered and rare. They believed that arcane magic was the key to unlocking the secrets of the universe and they researched it, hoarded it, and 'ate' magic. They went through a ritual of sorts, tied to their faction beliefs, that made them almost like living rods of absorption. They survived purely on draining magical power from others, and by it they didn't eat, sleep, or age but would starve and wither away if unable to eat magic. A side effect of this made their eyes appear to be liquid orbs of silvery magic. The Incanterium, at the height of its power in Sigil roughly 500 years before the current time, was the strongest faction and then one day it was gone. Their faction headquarters, the Tower Sorcerous, was simply gone. The tower and the vast majority of the faction were mazed by The Lady of Pain. A scant few of them (notably Alluvius Ruskin) are still extant. The Sodkillers: As I like to call them, The Once and Future Faction. Originally a faction till it merged with the Sons of Mercy to form the Mercykillers. However during the Faction War the Mercykillers split back into their original componants after Alisohn Nilesia vanished (sold into slavery by Rowan Darkwood).
#10 factol_rhys_dup Sep 08, 2004 19:58:09	You could bring an artifact into Sigil, but if you intend to cause some kind of Sigil-threatening mischief, the portal will simply not admit you. If you spontaneously decide to start torching the place, she'll maze you, of course. She'll appear just in time and the city will simply shimmer away for you. And I hope it goes without saying that you can't use an artifact to stop her.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2004 2:03:49	In the Well of Worlds the Abishai Ar'kle-mens tries to lean on the PCs to carry his special made orb into Sigil: "He hopes the orb will destroy the wards the Lady of Pain has established around the city of Sigil...success means the City of Doors stands open to invasion from the lower planes and available for domination by anyone strong enough to take it." pg 22 Of course it doesn't work. Now, I'm not sure if a lowly Abishai can even build something of true artifact status, but then the adventure never states how many centuries (or potentially millenia) the poor sod worked at it so who knows. The orb crumbles to dust as the PCs reach Sigil. It is suggested on page 23 that the Lady neutralizes it as the PCs go through a portal. This is speculation on my part but I've always assumed that the Lady was aware of traffic through the portals. If (N)PCs tried to bring in an item dangerous to her/Sigil I would assume she wouldn't let it in. Or perhaps turn it to dust. One can also interpret the way she "collects the music" from Darkwood in the Faction War that she is cognizant of at least some future events that will threaten Sigil. If something were going to be a great threat to her or the city I assume she would take action long before the threat manifested. -Eric Gorman
#12 ripvanwormer Sep 10, 2004 22:28:44	Don't forget the Chronosphere of Lagos, which the Prolongers would so dearly like to have. And the big tree the Athar kept in the Shattered Temple. I think it would be cool if Tarholt (the dwarven gemstone trader from Krynn) had the Greygem of Gargath and didn't know it, but that doesn't exist anymore officially and anyway it had a god in it. But it would be nice.