Dragonhelm: Tell us about Coryn. She seems very powerful for such a young age. Is she the next Raistlin?
Niles: Coryn's ultimate potential remains unknown. The idea for the character came from Margaret Weis, who originally termed her a magical "Mozart"--that is, someone whose natural talent just amazes and frustrates other, older and more experienced practioners, who had to work much harder to attain their skills. I don't believe she will succumb to the lust for power that so consumed Raistlin. She does have a role to play, including a romantic subplot, in the Empire trilogy.
Didn't Raistlin once comment that Palin was more powerful than him because the young White Robe had been able to cast a spell (on Chaos) that not even Raistlin had managed to master?
Raistlin told Palin that he had the potential to become the greatest wizard on Ansalon, especially if he apprenticed under him (Raistlin). The spell he cast was out of Maguis' spellbook, and it was one that not even he (Maguis) was able to cast. Then we get a look at the "real" future of Krynn from Tas where Palin is not only head of the White Robes but of the Conclave within 30 years. That tells me that he was able to attain a goodly amount of power in a fairly short amount of time, not only that but earn the respect of the conclave, and overcome misgivings that he might become another Raistlin.
Anyway as to the topic of a Wiz/Sor more powerful than Raistlin...I would love to see it. It would be darn hard to write a more loved/hated character though. While mechanically there could definately be someone more powerful eventually, I don't think it will ever be written to the level of Raistlin. That's the catch. Mechanically yes, literally no.
We'll probably see more of her there.
And unless Coryn challenges a god and travels through time, she won't "overshadow" Raistlin one bit.
Why is there so much desire for such high level characters? Raistlin was cool, now leave him be. Margeret Weis has already made Mina incredibly "uber" anyway; do we really need another powerful female spellcaster that destroys everyone in her path just so Weis can indulge in her feministic urges? Aren't Mina and Goldmoon enough already for Weis?
You sir are offensive.
I mean in terms of storyline it is very possible for someone to become more powerful than he was, but just would not want to see it.
Exactly. We place certain characters on pedestals, either because they are cool, the first, or for any number of reasons. In American history, we feel there was no greater president than Washington. In rock music, none is greater than Elvis.
With Raistlin, he was the first major mage in DL that we got to know, and he did some impressive stuff. It isn't just power. There's ambition, and all the various qualities that makes Raistlin so great.
Coryn may very well someday reach a power level similar to Raistlin. Maybe she will surpass him someday. Yet the mark that Raistlin sets by which we judge all other mages isn't set by arcane spellcasting power. It's set by his ambition and goals, and his very personality.
By right of being the first, no mage will ever compare. And that's something you just can't replicate with rules.
To be frank, I think there is no character in ANY roleplaying world close to me that was so mercilessly exploited as Raistlin was!
The DL Chronicles made R interesting, the DL Legends made him an eternal heroe of fantasy literature, more than maybe any other DL character could have aspired. Yet, there had to follow far too much reappereances and deep-in-views of this figure to keep him the enigma he still was. *I must say that I at first didn't read the WoS novels just because my book retailer told me R was featured again. I don't understand why they focus so much on the original WoL people... That gives kind of a Rand all Thor feeling...*
I think I am not the only reader/player who felt it difficult to understand the WoS plot and the unnecessary reapperance of the old gods. Yet I managed to get along with my favourite setting once more...
But, darn, I really would want them to be a bit more imaginative than to resurrect the same old mummies every time once more.
Besides, I think a Dalamar like he was after the Blue Lady's War would be an excellent follower to Raistlin's level of power and ambition. But a person that has yet DISCUSSED WITH GODS has nothing more to aspire...
Then we get a look at the "real" future of Krynn from Tas where Palin is not only head of the White Robes but of the Conclave within 30 years.
In the "real" future visited by Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Jenna, not Palin, is the head of the Conclave.
Why is there so much desire for such high level characters? Raistlin was cool, now leave him be. Margeret Weis has already made Mina incredibly "uber" anyway; do we really need another powerful female spellcaster that destroys everyone in her path just so Weis can indulge in her feministic urges? Aren't Mina and Goldmoon enough already for Weis?
Because I for one love the idea of being able to weild god-like powers. Also it would not make much sense for a level one to take on a Mature Dragon much less the Queen of Darkness.
Also coming from a D&D background I just need to see the people level up. It is a natural outcome of adventuring. If someone stayed the same level through 3 books then I would be disappointed.
Now what I do hate is for said uber level characters to cotinuously be popping up in the books *cough* Elminster *cough*. As I have said before one of the reasons I like Raistlin so much is because he did die. This does not mean I want to see another mage become more powerful than him it just means that I associate better with someone who is mortal.
"I'll show you all one day! You laugh at me and mock me now, but one day you will be worshipping me!"
Well, not exactly like that, but you get the general meaning.
I think the reason Raistlin appeals to many people who read the books is because he is sort of like a nerd who gains godlike power.
"I'll show you all one day! You laugh at me and mock me now, but one day you will be worshipping me!"
Well, not exactly like that, but you get the general meaning.
Egad, he's Bill Gates!
Raistlin is a "Boo hoo, my childhood was bad, I'll show them all!" justification for his own evil.
Fistandantilus just does it. No whining.
Now that's what I like.
:D
So this new mage is being touted as powerful, but I don't think it would be right for her to be anywhere near Raistlins level, its just to soon.
I doubt that they will make her that powerful, but even if they do: It's been nearly a century since Raistlin was at the height of his power. Plus no one complained about Palin being set up to be "the most powerful wizard who ever lived".
Additionally, if she's based on Mozart...well, she'll peak in her twenties, and be dead by her thirties...
In the "real" future visited by Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Jenna, not Palin, is the head of the Conclave.
No....Dalamar was most definately the head of the Conclave.
Spoiler Space:
From Dragons of a Fallen Sun:
"...Even Dalamar will be here! Think of that, Caramon! The Head of the Conclave coming to your funeral."
Egad, he's Bill Gates!
Cept Bill just looks like a nerd, but is not really one.
Actually, personally, I've never liked Raistlin. I much prefer Fistandantilus.
Raistlin is a "Boo hoo, my childhood was bad, I'll show them all!" justification for his own evil.
I was a huge fan of Raistlin when I was younger. My first contact with Raistlin was playing him in DL1 - just after Dragons of Autumn Twilight had been released.
To me - he - has always been a player character, first. Just as Krynn has always been a game setting, first.
Unlike I expect the large majority of you here, my contact with Krynn was not shaped by the novels until I had a firm grasp on my concept of the world from the persepctive of a player (later DM).
So you see, I liked *my* Raistlin.
In the novels, I preferred Tanis. He was conflicted, selfless when he needed to be and understood that he couldn't just do whatever it is that he wanted to do (unlike Sturm, who was too much of a selfish "island" for my tastes). Tanis recognized people needed him. He was - most of the time - responsible and wholly admirable.
I was upset when he died; moreover, when he died in a relatively pointless way. Steel wasn't worth his life and he owed his son and Laurana better than that.
(I'd be a lot happier with another Tanis. DL could use another hero like him.)
In any event, I suppose Raistlin has been rehabilitated a bit since he died
As the Master of Past and Present, Raistlin was a munchkin without a conscience. And I Liked him about as much as you'd expect with that sort of label.
Raistlin as a conflicted red robe, with a strong sense of justice? That was a far more interesting Raistlin.
Which is another way of saying, I prefer Tracy Hickman's Raistlin over Marg Weis'. I'm in the minority, but I don't find evil nearly as fascinating or admirable (in a begrudging sort of way) as I once did when I was younger.
I look forward to Mina getting a sword in the heart, too.
Actually, personally, I've never liked Raistlin. I much prefer Fistandantilus.
Raistlin is a "Boo hoo, my childhood was bad, I'll show them all!" justification for his own evil.
Fistandantilus just does it. No whining.
Now that's what I like.
Amen.
You sir are offensive.
Tsk Margeret, you really have to stop posting under pseudonyms. Now go back to writing the next novel, where Mina is going to become the dark queen, only to have someone become the next paladine, and then have kitiara, crysania and goldmoon return as well. And then tasslehoff can come back out of his hole and save the world again.
Tsk Margeret, you really have to stop posting under pseudonyms. Now go back to writing the next novel, where Mina is going to become the dark queen, only to have someone become the next paladine, and then have kitiara, crysania and goldmoon return as well. And then tasslehoff can come back out of his hole and save the world again.
Well Serena, I said if the time ever came, I would defend your honor, and so it has......
Mr. Sitara, first Maragret is not Serena, as a matter of fact Serena is a male, not a female. Second of all what you said was very offensive. These boards are not to come and attack authors. They are to come and ask questions about the gaming material. Also just because there are a lot of female heros in DL doesn't make anyone a feminist, and even if she is, so what! Its her world not yours, you don't like it don't read the books.
Maragret is one of the nicest women I have ever met, and she is always there for her fans. There is no need to come on and attack her writeing style. If you don't like female heros, don't read the books. Go back to the 50s where your mind set is, with males always having to be in charge and women work in the kitchen all day. Times have changed, and I personally enjoy haveing not only Male heros but Female heros as well. Take you foul words elsewhere please.
Thank you,
GCS
P.S. True Blue I look forward to your response for me defending Maragret, and Serena!
Edit: So I can say I was somewhat on topic:
Raistlin (as a red robe) is, to me, what a mage should be. I can't see going into something as taxing as the use of magic - especially in Krynn, where one often trades one's health for such power - without the attainment of even more power as the end goal. Which is precisely what I interpret Raistlin's goal to be: to become as powerful as possible. And if that means taking up the black robes, so be it.
In my mind, Raistlin can never be surpassed, because he represents what mages are all about. Just like whenever I think of a paladin, Sturm comes to mind, when I think of what a mage should be Raistlin comes to mind. In a way, whether or not a character in this, that or a third book is mechanically more powerful doesn't really matter.
Anyways, Green you seriously like jump on people if they even say "boo" to a person you term a friend. And i'm starting to think you've only met these people like once and they all are apparantly good friends of yours heh. But this isn't a bash, my point is that you need to chill just a little. There's no need to jump on people and accuse them of misconducts if they say like one little thing.
Although Sitara probably didn't write the best of responses though. I do think its kind of stupid. But sheesh stuff like that is what starts conversations going anyways, so none of that stuff bothers me too much. I watched what happened on the FR boards and them people just got nasty. Thats why we have no more novels, not little bitty tidbits that people say they don't like. But.. *sigh*.. I guess people can say all that stuff adds up.
I guess to try to at least mention the topic I've always liked Raistlin was exactly. I don't think there needs to be another one like him anytime soon and I was glad when I read about Dalamar and he actually cared about the world, even if he would like to own it. He was more "human" than I think Raistlin was and thats why I liked him. I know some people don't (heh I think you said you don't Green) but I always have. Even when Kitiara backstabbed him, you saw a little emotion and hurt from him. I like people who have human failings more because I can relate to them.
I think, if there WoS hadn't existed, it would have been Dalamars obligation - as he's the last REALLY known and beloved DL character and featured in most of the important novels.
Then, I wouldn't search for a archmage on Ansalon. Such a character could only develop after the war of souls. In the time before, the dragons would not let him or live...
Why should such a godlike mage not come from Taladas or Adlatum?
In Taladas, most of the Magic Schools remained untouched by the Dragon's Wars...
BTW I strongly oppose to the idea that the next important *World Crusher* should be a woman! NOT because of any *men go to war and women stay at home* paranoia ;) but because most of DL women are of the same character type. I really loved the dualism between Laurana and Kith, but the newer warladies are too much like them. DL lacks of promising characters in the recent years and this could make it worse... :embarrass
I guess to try to at least mention the topic I've always liked Raistlin was exactly. I don't think there needs to be another one like him anytime soon and I was glad when I read about Dalamar and he actually cared about the world, even if he would like to own it. He was more "human" than I think Raistlin was and thats why I liked him. I know some people don't (heh I think you said you don't Green) but I always have. Even when Kitiara backstabbed him, you saw a little emotion and hurt from him. I like people who have human failings more because I can relate to them.
I agree, I don't think we need another person like Raist anytime soon, and i believe there will always be atleast 1 super mage on a world, if one leaves another comes to replace the one as seen here... Fisty leaves.. Raist comes... Raist leaves... Palin comes.... Palin leaves.... Coryn comes. Coryn will have her time in the spot light for awhile. But my two reasons for not thinking she'll even be around too long are these. One shes got this love interest part in the up coming Solomnia trilogy, i think that will effect her, and how she views magic. Two, which is the more important of the two... Maragret likes her wizards to suffer(her words not mine... also her words...) if they don't suffer than they become too powerful.
I don't fully agree with that line of thought but I can understand it. Plus I think that as much as Maragret says she loves all her characters equally I believe you have a special attachment to your first main characters. As they set the world up for you and got you started. Its like they were your children, and every character after them is either a niece or nephew or a grandchild.. great grand child.. so on and so forth. You still love them, but not as much as your children they are a part of you as much as your children were.
So I think Coryn will grow strong, but not taking on the Gods strong, plus I think the Gods are getting to the point where they are tired of being challenged left and right. First you have the King Priest, and Raist, and Chaos, and even Tak. I think they are going to try to keep the power of the people of Krynn in check for a little bit.
Along the lines of Dalamar caring for the world, of course he cares for a world he wants to rule. Whats the point in ruling a dead world? Hence why Raist sacraficed himself, well part of it. He knew he could win, but whats the point in ruling over a dead world? So if Raistlin is just as "human" as Dalamar was, he may not have shown it as much, but he did care for the world. This is also proven with his help in Summer Flame and in the WoS. So sure he was more human after he "died" but he still was very human. Personally I saw very "human" characteristics in Raist in chronicals. they just weren't exactly the best of human nature.
I think one of my fav points of Dalamar is even though he is Silvanesti, he shows how much better than the rest he is by not careing if he spends time with "the lesser races". He doesn't see himself soiled by humans. Maybe thats cause he has always been weaker than a human close to him, or maybe he just is cooler than other elves. I dunno. But I give him props for that.
My last thing is a question. Even if Coryn or any other mage manages to make it as powerful as Raistlin became, will it really matter? My guess is that you'll just have people argueing that Raist could have taken out such and such, even though they both tried to take over the world and become a God. Does anyone else think thats what would happen? Even if this person succeeded in becoming a God?
GCS
PS I shall attempt to not be so jumppy. Especially if it will lower the rebuddles by you True_Blue my friend
I absolutely hate that Raistlin was included in Dragons of Summer Flame and the War of the Souls. It bugged me to no end and is one of the only parts I hated about the books. Raistlin should have stayed dead at the culmination of his power. I seriously believe they just wanted to milk just a little bit more notoriety out of him ("Hey Raistlin is in these books!"). This would be about my only big criticism of Weis and Hickman. I believe the Chronicles and Legends are the best books out there personally.. and then the Death Gate Cycle they wrote. But adding Raistlin again and again just annoyed me to no end. And he was all nice... and all that. And to me, that wasn't Raistlin. I don't care so much if he came to terms with himself or whatever at the end of the Legends...he should have died or whatever there and its done. God it bugs me..
And Yea I guess you are right Green, Raistlin does show certain human characterizations. The whole "no one likes me" I'm sure appealed to a lot of people especially because he becomes a badass. heh But the whole time he was with Crysania, I kept on saying "just do something for christ's sake". I find is lack of care for anything but magic..amazing.. I guess. I saw that as a little less human since he literally had nothing else. But I guess that happens to people a lot also. I think my main reason I thought he was less human was his total control. He only lost control maybe like twice in situations.. and then he still usually overcame it. I guess I like to see mistakes (sounds wrong huh? =p) but everyone makes mistakes and I like to see them.
Raistlin (through absorbtion of Fisty) has HUNDREDS OF YEARS of experience. Thus, I'm not going to really be of the mind that he is actually going to be surpassed.
After all, there are many prodigies but only one Mozart
A professional author always moves the story forward, and does not shove things down reader's throats. When characters die, they die. They don't come back every other novel. That is why margeret will never join the ranks of geroge R Martin, or Robin Hobb, who are the two best authors in the states, and dominate the fantasy market.
And it is obvious to anyone reading that margeret is intent on making sure mina becomes the dark queen, (if the dq doesn't come back that is...again...). She seems intent on repeating similar themes. Also, no doubt goldmoon is going to come back whae that happens. And so on and so forth (see my previous posts.)
Also, Serena is a female's name. Perhaps you shoudl have your friend check her sex again to make sure. Idiots.
Shut up Green Cloaked Sorc.
A professional author always moves the story forward, and does not shove things down reader's throats. When characters die, they die. They don't come back every other novel. That is why margeret will never join the ranks of geroge R Martin, or Robin Hobb, who are the two best authors in the states, and dominate the fantasy market.
And it is obvious to anyone reading that margeret is intent on making sure mina becomes the dark queen, (if the dq doesn't come back that is...again...). She seems intent on repeating similar themes. Also, no doubt goldmoon is going to come back whae that happens. And so on and so forth (see my previous posts.)
Also, Serena is a female's name. Perhaps you shoudl have your friend check her sex again to make sure. Idiots.
Why should he shut up...You won't...
Hmm....You seem to act as if you know a lot about what a professional author does.....hmmm....you got any novels published under your belt? Likely not....so quit bashin the ones who do. Armchair novelists always hack me off. Also...discussion of novels is prohibited on these boards, which includes the critiquing of a novel's author.
And yes...I am a guy. I am well aware that Serena is a female name. Wait...just for you...Ill check.....Yes a guy.
Trolls
Shut up Green Cloaked Sorc.
A professional author always moves the story forward, and does not shove things down reader's
reader's should be readers'
throats. When characters die, they die. They don't come back every other novel. That is why margeret
margaret is misspelled and needs to be capitalized as it is a person's name. Margaret as it were.
will never join the ranks of geroge R Martin, or Robin Hobb, who are the two best authors in the states, and dominate the fantasy market.
George, not geroge. The "R" should be "R." Also, his name is George R.R. Martin, not George R. Martin.
And it is obvious to anyone reading that margeret
Margaret
is intent on making sure mina
Mina, let's not forget to capitalize those people's names!
becomes the dark queen, (if the dq doesn't come back that is...again...). She seems intent on repeating similar themes. Also, no doubt goldmoon
Goldmoon
is going to come back whae that happens. And so on and so forth (see my previous posts.)
The above underlined word does not exist in the English language.
Also, Serena is a female's name. Perhaps you shoudl have your friend check her sex again to make sure. Idiots.
It's spelled should.
heh...you gave me a sig opportunity, I'll give ya one back
Iltharanos- (n) 1.A poster on the WotC Boards that rocks. 2.A poster on the WotC Boards that is hilarious. 3.A poster on the WotC Boards that is right.
heh...you gave me a sig opportunity, I'll give ya one back
:heehee
Just so I'm not totally off-topic, I admit to not liking Coryn. However, we have only seen her in one novel and thus there's not much development of her character, as of yet. Doubtless she will be further fleshed out in the coming Empire trilogy, and we can only hope that as she continues to be fleshed out that she will prove worthy of the mantle of Head of the Order of the White Robes. Whether she will ever prove worthy of Raistlin's place in Dragonlance history is unlikely, at least with us old fogeys.
In her adulthood, Coryn has traveled the world, though she makes her home in Palanthas -- indeed, she dwells in the great manor that was Jenna's home and laboratory, until the Red Lady made the tower and Wayreth Forest her permanent home. Coryn has used her powers to aid the lords of Solamnia in their fight to restore justice, peace, and prosperity to their ravaged homeland. But she is not a patsy of these lords, and indeed, she has been known to expose corruption and treachery even at the highest levels of the knightly brotherhood.
Coryn is skilled at all types of magic, though she has made a specialty of brewing potions. As befitting one who wears the white robe, she is generally altruistic, and she often helps unfortunate souls simply because she can and because it seems to her to be the right thing to do. She is not above making money -- she earns a hefty profit on each specialty potion she brews for her many wealthy clients -- but she takes little care with her funds and has not amassed anything like a fortune.
Although generally virtuous, Coryn is not a prude, and she has not taken a vow of chastity. She is a beautiful woman -- her olive skin and long black hair, legacy of her aboriginal roots, are considered exotically attractive in the north. Although she chooses her lovers with care, she does, occasionally, make such a choice.
I notice he has no complaints about Tasslehoff, or the fact that Palin was basically a retread of Raistlin's life (at least early on).
1. Palin - hey, he blastered Chaos and became the darkest white cloakever (for a time)
2. Magus - expert in changing alignment and childhood friend of the one and only Huma
3. Galan Drakos - chaotic evil resource for any campaign in the Age of Might and the only one that really has NO friendly attitude (no such gully dwarf blessing sopera)
4. Raistlin - most intriguing character ever, with a story that could have developed in one of the most loved fantasy tales since the Lord of the Rings; later spoiled for merchandising.Absólutely unique style.
5. Dalamar - so promising youth, so deceptioning old battleaxe. No matter, for all those who thought that a black cloak should lead the Conclave
6. Par Salian - seen in many WoL adventures, nice old man; his laboratory holds many secret for kender mices.
7. The Obsidian Warlock - Fifth Age Taladas Magic Icon, not featured in any novel up to date, I think
8. Coryn - lovely girlie, esteemed to be one of the next main protagonists?
9. Lord Ariakus - don't forget he was a high mage AND a cruel conqueror
10. Gandalf the Grey - once introduced into a kenderhome campaign and clubbed to death by ignorant and misunderstanding player characters :D
I gather James O'Rance and the others who authored the unofficial Taladas 5th Age material intended this to be the same character as the Shadow Sorcerer, albeit "incognito" under another identity on Taladas.
Anyway, Serena, its you who are trolling. You started it, so stop *****ing already.
I never said I was a professional author, I merely pointed out who is the best in the field of fantasy fiction. grrm and hobb (a female I might add) are the best. However, their novels cater to mature readers, not childish idiots like you. Kapeesh?
Weis is hardly in their league. It seems she is not creative enough for new ideas, thus she keeps bringing back the same old tired characters. Pathetic.
*Click*