Taking a break from the huge multi-generational campaign entering now into its....I don't even know year but we started with the original modules when they came out....the players have decided to take over the role of NPCs from the campaign to deal with the "Renegade Sorcerer" issue post return of the gods.
It's interesting really how the players are reacting differently to it all and I was curious if anyone could add their own two cents on how various factions react to it all in "canon" Dragonlance so I can work with the plot a bit.
I'll show how complicated the issue has become though already in my campaign.
* The White Robe Mage is one of the more sadly pathetic figures of the game as he refused to have anything to do with Palin Majere's vile "godless" magic and spent the entire dragon time as a scribe for the Knights and later as a resistance fighter against the forces of Skye.
Now a hero, he is giddily happy at the god's return and has been amply rewarded for his practicing of the old ways the entire time. He has taken a hugely hard line stance with the other mages though that the sorcerer movement needs to be stamped out.
He's using his status as a war hero to the Solamics and friendship to have the magic prohibited, labeled "witchcraft", and drawn not so blatant statements that he believes it comes from the imprisoned god Chaos and the Graygem (and its continued use might result in his release)
He's also paid for a school to be opened in the castle deeded to him by a Solamic friend to train white robes to aid the Solmanics while also teaching sorcerers are the greatest threat Krynn may yet face.
* The Black Robe of the group, and apprentice to the old player character who at present is about 27th level (he's a "mere" 18th) whose spent all of his time in his old master's tower awaiting his return, wants to create a long term solution to dealing with sorcerers. In this respect that they should be recruited as equals into the Towers of High Sorcery. Have them wear the robes, take the tests, swear allegiance to the moons, and allow them to "prove themselves" to the gods
He's confident that within a few generations their 'tame sorcerers' will dissapear for the more educated and arcane ways while they will provide a substantial boon in hunting down the REAL renegades.
* The Red Robe is a former sorcerer that is working on discovering a spell to replicate the power of the Epiphany and 'convert' her fellows while also arguing that there's no real need to confront them now and the two sides can get along.
Oddly, the character is a fanatical duelist though and enjoys hunting down sorcery to test her magic against since arcane wielders are "endangered"
Frankly, with such high level folk it'll be interesting to deal with Jenna and Dalamar (and possibly Palin since this might be one of the few things to draw them back) on an equal level. The characters were always in agreement about such things, they should be pretty shocked to find such deep divisions about it probably.
The modern era is filled with this kind of strife. You would have more difficulty, too, if a sorcerer was amongst the group.
The White Robes are cautious at this point. They believe sorcery to be harmful, but they're taking a "wait and see" approach. They're trying to convert sorcerers over to the ways of High Sorcery.
Black Robes study sorcerers to increase their own power. When a sorcerer is no longer of use, a Black Robe will kill him when opportunity presents.
Red Robes, meanwhile, are directed to study the new magic and learn from it. It seems Lunitari is curious about Wild Sorcery.
I know your situation may be a bit troubling, but I would think that it would prove for some interesting role-playing.
What happens when a sorcerer comes to them for help? What happens when a sorcerer saves their lives, or proves to be a helpful ally? How will the White Robe react if presented with the idea that killing sorcerers will lead to the Black Robes? Will your Black Robe the the voice of reason? Admittedly, that's an interesting thought in and of itself.
While you do have many diverging viewpoints, you also have the seeds for some good story potential. Remember that all wizards are brothers and sisters within their orders, and that all orders work towards the benefit of magic.
Best of luck!
I've already talked to the player and he's definitely said he's considered the possibility of his white robe not playing with a full stack anymore. After years of being ridiculed for his faithfulness to Solinari by sorcerors and the common man, he's itching for some payback.
He's asked me about how the Knights of Solmalia and the possible Church of Good might react to forming "triads" for hunting down Sorcerors of evil and whether they are forming conspiracies that disrupt the law like the Knights of Nekara...or Legion of Steel (and maybe a rogue mystic or too if the wizard is inclined to say they are just magic users of a different color)
After all, a little reminder of the Fear of Paladine (or Kiri Jonilith) couldn't hurt in this apathetic age.
Other possibilities include creating a Prestige Class of "Order of High Sorcery Inquisitor" (pun intended)
Basically, I was curious as to ideas about how the various races are reacting to it as well along with what sort of flash points might make this a big deal. The opinions of signature characters would also be welcome too in this as alot of WOTHS might also be ex-sorcerers...though I can definitely imagine a convert's fervor.
A brief return to Kingpriest hysteria might be appropriate, surprisingly WITH the mages for once.
In real life I often like to play devils advocate so I can argue anyside of the Wizard/Sorcerer debate.
Truth is though, primal sorcery nearly ripped the world apart once. This is fact.
The Wizards of High Sorcery were founded to make sure that this never happen again. This is fact.
Does this mean that it will again? I don't know, but the WoHS fear it, because the world will turn against magic again. Will every high level sorcerer a danger to the world? I don't know. Primal Sorcery was used for generations by mortals before this backlash of uncontrolable magical energy was conjured durring the second dragonwar.
What does this leave us?
In a world of unknowns with a lot of fear being tossed around. Wizards fear Sorcerers losing control and causing irriversable damage to the world. Sorcerers fear Wizards, their clandestine Conclave, and The Test and will fight to remain free. The Gods of Magic not only fear the destruction that forced them into forming the Conclave in the first place, but they feel mortals tapping into the raw creative forces of Krynn is Blasphemy. For some the primal magic comes easier, they love their magic, but have no talent for High Sorcery, they refuse to give up their magic regaurdless.
Mind you SORCERERS in Dragonlance are NOT BORN (Irda and Bozak not withstanding), they are made. It takes effort to learn primal sorcery, sure some people have a talent for it (high charisma) but nearly anyone could learn it. Some stumble across the ability on their own, but it still requires effort to cultivate the talent. Thus the 'I was born this way' arguement holds no sway. Though some may believe its true, its not.
So who is right? What is the answer? The problem is there isn't a clear cut answer and both sides feel passionately. There are no easy answers, just like in life. This is an asset to Role Playing, not a barrier. It is a tool for the DM to use. Use it wisely.
I'm feeling that it might be a good time for once to have a White Mage who is already a proven ally to the Solamics as well as a long term friend. The fact he's a fanatic though is suddenly going to make life VERY hard on sorcerers. I can easily see the sudden return of the gods causing a lot of fanatics to pop up.
A brief return to Kingpriest hysteria might be appropriate, surprisingly WITH the mages for once.
Matters might become worse if Thorn Knight sorcerors manage to do some damage to Solamnic holdings or people, especially if they were operating covertly. It could lead to the Knights adopting a position not unlike that which the elves have traditionally held - that any magic-user other than a White Robe is not to be trusted.
Red Robes might be, at best, tolerated. Black Robes will probably never be welcome on Solamnic lands so no change there. Any unaffiliated magic users, whether renegade wizards or sorcerors, might be considered outlaws.
But if some kind of magical terrorism happened then only wizards "certified" by the Knights might be welcome in Solamnic territory. It could create interesting conflicts for Knight players who have sorcerors as friends and allies.
Frankly, I do wonder how the Churches of Good are dealing likewise with their Mystic "Brethren" who have founded false cults all over the place including the once thought (and rightly so) dead Seeker gods.
It occurs to me that one can be a sorcerer and yet still firmly loyal to any god of good BUT Solinari.
Our first session/adventure went surprisingly dramatically today as well. It's below if interested in game details...
Game 1#: War against the Renegades-Session 1#
Basically, the first "Summit" on Primal Magic was supposed to have all the Orders of High Sorcery. Since my Krynn is a bit bigger than the 'cannon one' it's always been established the Order has hovered around 50,000 members Ansalon wide with the low during the time of the Kingpriest of about 10,000.
300 showed up to the meeting, estimates are if they can get everyone it'll probably be about 1500. About a third were personal students and friends of the Black Robe or the once and current students of the White Robe.
Neither had interest in the positions of Order head and expressed confident/blah blah in the current leadership. We had some good roleplaying as the Black Robe gave the reasonable recruitment demand/suggestion while the White Robe went into a tirade and personally signalled out every epiphany member of his robes as a near-traitor. He called primal sorcery disgusting and Dalamar nearly demanded a sorcerer's duel (ironically named) when it came to him being a practioner.
Then I dropped my bombshell and had Palin Majere showup to defend Primal sorcerers and speak about their right to exist along with all that can be learned.
It backfired rather well for our game with the White Robe basically giving his worst attacks yet.
* Palin having not exactly rescued the world from Chaos but instead delivered it on a platter to Takhasis.
* Palin living off his Uncle's name for his entire life, a man whose own loyalty to the gods was questionable
(Dalamar at this point developed a hatred for the WR)
* Palin started the plague of Primal Sorcery
* Palin even betrayed his uncle's dubious legacy by giving up magic.
He rolled a natural twenty on diplomacy and thus I gave him that the Conclave, eager to blame someone and alread stacked against Palin amongst the White Robes then turned against Dalamar and Jenna's suggestion to defrock Palin of his ability to wear the white robes and banished him from the Order. At most he could be a respected guest invited by a real mage.
On that note, the three characters were asked to handle the investigation of a Primal Sorcerer ravaging Solamia whom may be running an Academy of them.
(Palin actually lunged at the White Robe when he said the destruction of the sorcery academy at Solace was the best thing to happen to magic during the Age of Mortals before the gods return)
The Knights have grudgingly accepted the need for magic after experiencing what it was really like to live in a world without it. But their strict lawfulness will make them inclined to only accept wizards that are willing to commit to godly magic, in this case to Solinari, whom they will see as having lawful dominion over good arcane magic. Clever White Robes will play up the fact that Solinari is Paladine and Mishakal's son and make him less mysterious and more a clear member of the Gods of Good.
The other gods have yet to take a firm stance on mysticism, for that matter so do the Knights. Mishakal seems to be accepting of Citadel Mystics committed to healing and helping people. But most of them at least respect her, even revere her, after years of Goldmoon's teachings. Other Knights, like Lady Camilla Weoledge, have a definite preference for clerical magic over mysticism although they seem willing to tolerate Good mystics for now. More conservative Knights are likely to argue that Knights with Mystic class levels should become clerics, but it could take them years to turn that into actual rules for the order.
The Gods of Good haven't gotten around to taking a stance on mysticism yet. It doesn't seem like the Gods of Neutrality have either. The Gods of Evil however aren't exactly big believers in the right to freedom of belief so I fully expect them to try and compel evil mystics into becoming clerics asap. Sargonnas for example seems to be wasting no time reclaiming his minotaurs. I'll be surprised if the Knights of the Skull can carry on long without coming under pressure from one or more of the Gods of Evil.
The Gods of Magic strongly oppose sorcery, so they are not likely to endorse a compromise solution no matter what the Conclave wants. They want to return all arcane magic on Krynn to it's former focused state (i.e. under their control) and Palin can kiss their magic wands. If they can repeat what they accomplished in the ancient past, the more focused magic becomes the less powerful wild magic will become until it fades to the point where it is no longer possible.
Frankly, I do wonder how the Churches of Good are dealing likewise with their Mystic "Brethren" who have founded false cults all over the place including the once thought (and rightly so) dead Seeker gods.
I also hope that the Seeker cult is being ressurected using mystics. My vision of the Seekers is having the idea of polytheistic iconoclasts, representing serene, aloof and perfectly silent divine figures. I figure if you're going to "seek the new gods" find ones that don't have the inconveniences of the old religion. Namely walking around and throwing flaming mountains at you. ;)
There is a strong pressure by a couple freelance designers on the Whitestone Council to turn mysticism into Chaos-accessed magic like sorcery. I don't think that makes any sense though. Mysticism is the magic that was used to make life and souls, and therefore came from the High God. How can Chaos be involved accessing that?
I think that mystics are proof that mortals are the heirs to the gods, not their servants, as prophesied in the Disks of Mishakal (Time of the Twins, Chapter 1). In eastern religions, there is often a many-fold path to enlightenment. I do not see why Krynn cannot have a two-fold path. One is that faith which leads to revealed knowledge. The other path is that of thought, which leasds to discovered knowledge.
I also think that Majere and Zivilyn have been encouraging mysticism from the dawn of time, as evidenced by their monastic orders. I see monks as proto-mystics, with Goldmoon being the founder of the full flowering of mysticism. I thus think that Mysticism could be incorporated and accepted into any of the divine religions. The clerics serve as the ordained and official power of the faith, the monks spend time on the reflections of the divine, and the mystics serve as the mendicants and devout laity. The heresies occur of course, when the mystics take on the trappings of clerical position and power (as with the Seekers).
There is a strong pressure by a couple freelance designers on the Whitestone Council to turn mysticism into Chaos-accessed magic like sorcery. I don't think that makes any sense though. Mysticism is the magic that was used to make life and souls, and therefore came from the High God. How can Chaos be involved accessing that?Well, the connection is a logical one. After all, the people of Krynn went through more than three centuries without divine magic under conditions in which they desperately needed it. It is a little bizarre that nobody discovered Mysticism during that time, and yet Goldmoon somehow managed to do so within a fear years of the gods' disappearance.
A possibility comes from the game statements that mysticism doesn't work in earlier ages because "ambient magic" is unavailable, linked to Paladine/Valthonis's explanation of the way magic works in the appendix of Dragons of a Vanished Moon.
During the god's absence the ambient Belief (mystic) energy that normally flowed to the gods was instead bottled up behind Takhisis's necromantic barrier. This "ambient energy" then accumulated to the point where it became accessible to mortals.
Now that the gods are back however, at least some of that energy is flowing to them, which they are in turn feeding back to their clerics. The long term effect of that may be to reduce the availability of ambient energy for mystics to utilize.
That may be why most of the gods don't seem to feel too worried about mysticism beyond the actions of individual mystics to draw worshippers away from them. Mishakal has been quite friendly to the Citadel Mystics and her clerics work alongside them.
Cheers,
Cam
There is a strong pressure by a couple freelance designers on the Whitestone Council to turn mysticism into Chaos-accessed magic like sorcery.
Terry, I think you will find that the Whitestone Council had nothing to do with that association. The Whitestone Council works in a professional manner, especially when working with Sovereign Press, and we try our best to live up to their vision on the future of Dragonlance.
My solution, which I of course think is a better one, is that the gods don't actually grant magic to mortals. Instead they awaken their inner magical potential through the revelations contained in such teachings as the Disks of Mishakal. When people do not follow the teachings and gain those insights, they do not gain the clerical powers.
This would solve the pesky kingpreist dillema too. As a young man he followed the wisdom and teachings of paladine and became spiritually powerful. Later in life, when he was no longer doing Paladine's will he nevertheless remained a spiritually insightful and moral individual. He simply had his goodness twisted through bad counsel and his own fear. He was still a holy man despite his heresies.
Goldmoon herself was able to bring about mysticism because she and others were clerics of the gods. Before Goldmoon, there were no clerics to discover mysticsm and its spiritual teachings.
It is like asking your mailman to give you spiritual insight. Unless he has had an extensive philosophical and religious education, coupled with long hours of meditation and study, he isn't going to offer you any insights that are very profound.
As it stands, as I've pointed out in the other thread, there is no way Paladine would have supported what the Kingpriest and his church was doing and still gave full spellcasting and powers. Mortals could do evil things because they think its right, but Paladine would have stepped in and cut off powers once he saw the evil acts being done in his name. I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise.
By becoming spiritual through Paladine, and later being a cleric without a deity (but still maintaing he follows Paladine's will), this frees up the whole speculation.
I'm not a big fan of msyticism being part of wild magic also, because than why aren't people worried about it causing magical storms. Its never been around long enough to know it won't, so I don't understand why people wouldn't be afraid for it also. I understand sorcery has show precedence with it causing magical storms, but if I was a cleric/wizard I would be worried about mysticism just as much as sorcery, with it being a complete unknown.
I'm not saying the relationship isn't professional. However I remember the arguments on the boards about this before it was official. It is definately one of those things that went from fanon to canon.
*sigh*
Terry, the association of Chaos and ambient magic was not our idea. I wish you would believe me when I say this, for it is the truth.
Sovereign Press had already come up with the idea prior to it being thought of separately on the boards. The DLCS was not in print at the time, so it may seem to you that the boards came before the DLCS. Rest assured, the idea came from Sovereign Press first.
The Whitestone Council has made some suggestions from time to time, but we never pressure Sovereign Press.
If you would like to discuss this further, then please e-mail or PM me off-list.
That being said, let's return to topic, if we could please.
The first place the idea saw print was actually in a footnote on Don Perrin's "Report on Afflicted Kender" in Bertrem's Guide to the War of Souls, Vol. II, released in November of 2002--only five months after Dragons of a Vanished Moon.
I don't much care for the idea myself, but let's keep the facts straight, please.
Matthew L. Martin
The DLCS was not in print at the time, so it may seem to you that the boards came before the DLCS. Rest assured, the idea came from Sovereign Press first.
The first place the idea saw print was actually in a footnote on Don Perrin's "Report on Afflicted Kender" in Bertrem's Guide to the War of Souls, Vol. II, released in November of 2002--only five months after Dragons of a Vanished Moon.
I don't much care for the idea myself, but let's keep the facts straight, please.
Matthew L. Martin
Sorry, forgot that it saw print there prior to the DLCS being printed. I don't always see things on my end in the order that they are released.
My point wasn't so much which came first so much as it was giving credit where due, and not making accusations that the Whitestone Council was somehow pressuring Sovereign Press. It simply isn't true.
Yes, we've seen some things we've come up with in the past see print. Jamie created noble draconians years ago, and now they've seen print. I came up with the term "darklance", and now that's an official alternate name for abyssal lances. And so on and so forth. The Chaos connection, though, does not fall into this category.
You see, the Whitestone Council and Sovereign Press work as a team. We're like one big family. It 's a fantastic relationship, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Whatever the case, I've made my point, and it's time to get back to the discussion at hand.
I, for one, love the Chaos/wild magic relationship. It explains so many things, such as why mysticism wasn't discovered in the Time of Darkness. Had it been accessible, then there's a chance in peoples' games that someone could discover the mystical power of healing prior to Goldmoon and the return of the gods. That would have invalidated Goldmoon and the blue crystal staff.
So in that regards, it keeps continuity, rather than having to go the route of the retcon.
I also like it as it gives some flavor to the magic conflict at hand. Why do the WoHS despise sorcerers? Because their magic is tainted by Chaos, and is dangerous.
I'll paraphrase a bit from the DLCS (page 99).
Mysticism is the power of life itself, strengthened by an individual's heart and soul. It's considered more natural and nurturing. In a way, Mysticism is like the Force. It's living energy, created by all living things.
Normally, mysticism is at such a low level of energy that it cannot be harnessed. However, the release of the energy of Chaos into the world acts as an amplifier of sorts. This amplifier then boosts Mysticism and Wild Sorcery to levels usable by mystics and sorcerers.
I see the power of Chaos as an amplifier. Cam's theory is that it adds a bit of "taint" to the magic as well. Dragons and other creatures who tap into wild sorcery naturally use Wild Sorcery without any Chaos effects, while mortals use Chaos-tainted Wild Sorcery.
While it's a valid point, it's not a perspective I wholly agree with. If the power of Chaos is unleashed in the world, it's going to affect all ambient magic, not just the type mortals use.
Personally, I prefer the idea that Wild Sorcery is there, and that some creatures have a natural connection to it, while others need it boosted for them to use. The flipside argument, of course, is why some need it boosted why others don't.
Whatever the case, ambient magic is tied to the power of Chaos. Whether there's an actual "taint" or not remains to be seen. The real magic, though, will be how the stories of the various spellcasters in Krynn play out.
I have read the three books of a vanished moon, at least I think that's what they are called (The one's with mina, yes?) but I haven't read anything that comes after that. I've read some things like the Draconian series, and the Blood War for the Minotaurs (not sure on names at all).
Does anyone have any names of books so I can get up to date?
Thanks
Some thoughts though on things...
The Three Moon Gods are probably thinking that sorcery is only currently uncontrolled and that eventually chaos's essence will run out. Leaving it abundantly around will only allow it to destroy the world with only a few wielders while its gradually being "bled off" by weaker mages casting a few fireballs.
It's also possible that the gods of Magic see it as an opportunity to get control over some of the powers of Chaos for themselves. Solinari may want to drain Iolanthes power from him if its a continuous steam while Nuitari may want it all for himself to make HIM the master now.
(Nuitari as the "king of darkness" would have to expand his interests though)
***
Here's how our second session went...
To spare you the adventure "crunch bits" the three robes proceeded to eliminate an 18th level sorcerer who'd apparently gone insane from Chaos magic use while finding a CG/NG academy of sorcerers from 1st to 9th level of about fifty students.
The White Robe killed the 18th level then tried to persuade the sorcerers to become "real magicians" but failed so he said they'd have to have their powers removed by force. Frankly, I was surprised by the slaughter but 25 were killed and they would have lost had not the Black Robe poisoned their strongest after they rebuffed the attempt. A few more were captured to be subjected to 'life drain' or go with the Red and whites.
The rest however were allowed to flee being first level kids out of a burning building and the Black Robe cast an illusion of Raistlin Majere over himself before appearing to them and saying that they had to learn the ways of wizardry to gain revenge on the evil ones here and reform the Towers to protect the rights of the innocent as in here.
With the new Towers info, I immediately had the action condemned though...the White Robe expelled and the Red Robe severely censured. The Black Robes chided him for letting the kids get away even as Dalamar personally thanked him for the seven or more recruits they'd gotten from his action.
Now what he most despises, the White Wizard has gone renegade and the short campaign will focus on the players communicating via truce and scrying while he raises an army go forth and annihilate sorcery. He's already met a woman named Mina whom he's persuaded should help him destroy the "traitors" to the One God who are drawing their power from her river of souls...i.e. blatantly lying to her (all part of Chemosh's plot to convince the Knights of Nekara that they need divine backing to become "The Knights of the Skull Wand")
I imagine his former friends in the Knights of Solmalia are going to be seriously torn over what to do about him even as I'm sure rumors of his actions will not help matters...he might try to blame Palin though for his crimes and maintain a false facade as a non-magical sage.
Good is Good with a except when, and Evil is Evil along with a maybe
It's an odd quote that basically summed up how my RPGing game group developed around the Black Robe travelling with the disgraced (now Regenet of the Land) Knight of Somalia and Revered Son of Paladine.
I find it fits well the setting of the game to make sure that people remember that "Evil isn't good" and "Good isn't evil" but people can be certainly short sighted or have moral values that aren't necessarily wrong.
Oddly enough, I often times have to defend the elves as good though since people keep thinking them so haughty and selfish.
But in general I keep the following things in mind with my favorite Players' Wizard Valance and the former alcoholic turned paladin George being pointers out that "Balance" often means accepting alittle of what isn't good to live in a world of many shades.
Traits of Charles' Dragonlance campaigns....
1. We know that the Knights of Takhasis are nobler than though evils. I won't address them as it was done well enough in Second Generation.
2. The Elves I always point out have about a THOUSANDTH the corruption of humans with no elf allowed to dwell in poverty, starvation, or abusive relationships. They protect themselves and rightly judge races by their standards as you judge them. A great deal of their distaste is largely because they can't save the world and humans have repeatedly pointed out they don't want the elvish 'ideal world'
3. Minotaurs, again we know their good points.
4. Nuitari is always whom I basically play as very similiar to Raistlin. A gentlemen and a scientist. He doesn't care about promoting corruption for its own sake and is fiercely protective of his worshippers.
Largely his worst attribute is the fact he gives his mother the benefit of the doubt along with the fact that he honestly hates most mortals for what they've done to the 'wise.' He could have stopped Raistlin at any time but believed the end would be an end to the corruption...either who won.
5. Solinari I always play as too sympathetic for his own good. He's naive in his belief that magic will ever be accepted and everyone is ultimately good at heart (his belief about his brother).
Nuitari is usually RIGHT that renegades are evil incarnate and monsters that will thrash everything around them and endanger all reality.
6. Lunitari is a flake. She gave magic to Raistlin with Nut because she wanted to see what might happen.
7. Kiri Jonialith is a zealot. He believes in everything paladin ever said and in my campaigns, it was revealed that HE was supplying the Kingpriest's spells. He's not evil but honestly believes that the greater good occasionally requires busting a few heads...
What is a few generations of misery and sorrow if the benefit is great for good?
8. Morgion's clergy believe that they are punishers of evil. Morgion believes the gods have all defied the High God (before Chaos was revealed not to be him) and thus they should be punished.
He thus thinks he serves the valuable role of tempter and tester of faith along with punisher of the wicked.
9. Chemosh....well he's never been any good in my campaigns. Sorry, but he's Orcus
10. Zebby is a child unjustly persecuted for a banishment not her own. She was a creation of a plane of hell that never got the chance to be otherwise.
No evil is unmotivated in my campaigns nor do they free you from the flaws of ignorance or fanaticsim.
Not so much his clergy but Kiri himself. His followers have always preached that good is not the equal of evil but its superior. They have always been more tolerant of extremism in the service of good than most as well.
Kiri didn't support the corruption in the church obviously but considered it something to deal with after the evil races were annihilated and the neutral had been converted (he didn't approve of murdering them of course or dwarves/other races....however he could convince the Kingpriest otherwise when the time was right...he was far too overconfident in Ishtar's glories)
1. Mishkahal is a goddess whom has always been a tad bit too gentle and redemptive for her own good but her husband's 'death' will now make her force to become more militant and the effects on her consciousness this may have might be considerable.
2. Majere is a god that privately considers himself the REAL god of knowledge and enlightenment. He's far too crafty for his own good and the clerics of him along with monks are often prone to involving themselves in politics where they don't belong.
Frankly, its the juxtoposition of his arrogance and Kiri's reckless idealism that destroyed the dream of Ishtar more than anything.
He privately supported Raistlin with the Gods of Magic because he believed Takhasis' death would benefit all and Raistlin could/would destroy the rest of the evil gods or at least prove more tractable.
3. The fisher king is one of the few gods that actually doesn't care for the war between good and evil whatsoever and actively disdains his father's efforts along with his brother. The cleric prefers the oceans and family above all things.
To protect one's own community, individuality, friends, and family is far more important to him than these cosmic games of idiocy. He only supported the Knights of Solamalia vaguely and that was in the hope they WOULDN'T become a tool of long range good but wiser local lords and friends of the people.
But I've always felt that essentially the character works best when he's trying to reach some ephiphany and all that stands in his way is ignored.
Nuitari's agent in the black robe wants the Graygem where the thing will be placed in a magical Crown of Iron. All three gods of magic are working on it but they intend to present it to the new "King of Darkness"
Luitari intends to place it on her moon again though.
The Knights of Nekara have their own agenda though and that is to release even MORE sorcery out into the world and have developed rituals that anyone can develop the power of sorcery who is present before the gemstones very easily.
It sounds like fun.
What the players don't realize is the fact that Chaos is still at large. He intends to spark the magical conflict the White Robe is intending to win so that "Arcane magic" and "Chaos sorcery" will interact on large levels and damage the magical sphere enough that the spell that holds him trapped will shatter.
Ishtar was his attempt at government building of an ideal state lead by a kindly priestly monarch. I imagine, unlike Kiri, Majere learned his lesson and tries to understand the world far more than change it. Helping one soul at a time achieve peace with the world.
The god I had most fun with in my campaign though was Morgion. Morgion in my games has always been the god of not just disease in my games but largely the god of decay of the soul. Priests of Morgion shy away from congregations of the rich and powerful, unless they have an especially jaded audience but prefer the quantity of those suceptible to vice. Prostitution, their "Black Lotus" dens, information brokering (with all the resultant blackmail), and physicians who seek to prolong life even to the point that Chemosh's time comes ill. Though its risky, many preach to those dying of plague even when they haven't started it.
Morgion is the god misuse of Freedom as well when I have my players hear his teachings were I to summarize him post Takhasis.
Branchlea's bards in my game are also another interesting source of information as the minstrels are part of a tradition that they are trying to revive of spreading news of the land. I do have it a common practice of them to be guilty of libel and secret society practices but I never did get to do anything interesting with him.
***
The campaign's adventures after the Island of Chaos are over and working well...
The Black Robe went to his Master Valance whose constructed a new tower in the grove in Palathas. He's started an Academy of High Wizards in the place and accepts any who can make it through the grove wearing one of the magical strings that are tied to a single tree he's planted outside. The current crop includes Ogre Titans who are given permanent forms without need for elf murder, Draconians, and Gnomes whom he hope will bring back the power to their species. Valance in our games is about just a famous wizard as Raistlin and he should be given he's the 'main campaign's almost continuous character'
Their conversation was brief but to the point that any magic was good magic if it increased wizards fear and respect. Sorcerers served their purpose in keeping people afraid of magic until their numbers were rebuilt and all the lost books of magic were tracked down from all the REAL renegades.
Ulin Majere as the new White Robes head then brought the Red Robe news of what the Renegade White Robe was up to with Mina. Having just read Amber and Ashes he's used knightly records to track down many of the hedge wizards in Solmania to then sick Mina on them as they become then Krynnish vampires. He's proceeded then to have his White Robes auxillary friends track them down almost immediately thereafter to destroy, he rationalizes this blackest of black deeds as needed to suitably blacken the name of sorcery...and Solamnia is now in an uproar to track down the vampire scourge with inquisitors, torches, and the like.
Tracking down the location of the Graygem to the former home of the Irda, now a hideous jungle of wackiness I had fun with the Black Robe and Red robe recruiting Usha Majere and Linsha as their guide and represenative nothing nefarious was afoot. As usual everyone was uncomfortable with the Black Robe being so....nice. The Black Robe did well to make the game epic as he let the Knights of Nekara know it was here and they dispatched a huge force instead of the paltry few high level investigators before.
The Renegade White Robe, knowing he couldn't beat them along with the Order's wizards then had all of his mercenaries pledge their souls to Chemosh along with the enslaved hob goblins he'd promised to lead to a new land. Mina killed them all almost immediately then by poison as they celebrated their conversion and he raised them all as undead...higher forms for the more sincere their conversion (she'd done some good recruiting). He had to murder his pupil though at that point to keep his secret identity
To make a long story short, huge battle with the knights while the REAL folk went after the gem. I was horribly mysterious as when they reached it, they found the Graygem was almost empty. The soul of Iolanthes had been stripped almost bare of any of its power....where it had gone...who knows.
The Graygem of Gargath was empty and chaos' power had been spread all over Faerun, coating the very planet with its essence and there was room for two greater deities to be made from Chaos' power and then some besides.
The situation in Solamnia degenerated badly as the Church stepped in and ended the persecution of sorcerers in the land even as they excommunicated the White Robe. The relations were strained but somewhat mitigated by the sorcerers proving insturmental in finding the Beloved of Chemosh and putting an end to them.
The Knights of Nekara had been badly hit by the matter though and the Renegade White Robe along with Mina had been both branded outlaws to hunt down and destroy.
The game began after this 'Opening scrawl' with him refusing an offer from Solinari for redemption as he explained that obviously he had no way to return to his vaunted position (he called it respect of his peers) so he would sacrifice his soul to bring an end to the scourge of wild magic.
Mina and Chemosh then introduced the renegade to the possibility of harnessing all of the Grey magic coating the world and diverting it to a purpose.
Chemosh intended to use it to raise himself to the status of greater god by beginning a plague the likes of which the War of the Lance would seem childsplay.
The White Robe intended to use it to wipe out all sorcery in the Realms.
He intended to betray Chemosh further by absorbing it all into himself and becoming a god that would then annihilate his patrons and similiar mad schemes that the player roleplayed extremely well as simple insanity.
Back at the towers of High sorcery, the players returned to find that hundreds had rejoined the Orders out of sheer FEAR and being hunted by the Legion of Steel's sorcerer allies.
A compact was then signed that made truce with the leaders of the various sorcerer's movements throughout Krynn and devoting themselves instead to tracking down all the various renegades throughout Krynn that had started to emerge as the hundreds of spellbooks free would make more than enough problems for years.
The White Robes' faction was forced to disregard their war on penelty of being made Renegades themselves even as the hatred the WR's have for sorcerer's is considerable. The Black Robes simply promised to make their assassinations private (in private of course) and not part of a greater pogrom.
The Black Robe was dispatched one last time as they discovered that the individuals were seen in the vicinity of Skullcap. Apparently, they were going to attempt to ressurect the spirit of Fistandalius by once more entering the abyss and filtering through CHEMOSH all the power therein with a Cleric of Black and a Wizard of White (this has no game effect but it shows Chemmy's sense of humor)
Moving the Tower to the Plane of Dust, they began harnessing all the power therein as Nuitari privately instructed the Black Robe to let them complete the ritual as he'd then assasinate the White Robe and take over the spell to transfer the power to Nuitari and make HIM king of the evil gods.
Privately Solinari and Lunitari then contacted the Black Robe after speaking with the Red Robe and said that a world ruled by their brother would be the end of magic as chaos' power would eat him alive.
Needless to say in the Plains of Dust a massive battle ensued with the undead armies Chemosh created and the wizards of High sorcery working with sorcerers recruited to clash with the undead (The Knights of Nekara who attacked-of course-died horribly earlier).
The White Robe completed his spell but the Black Robe then REASONED with him as he then sacrified himself for the magic and diverted it not to Nuitari but to all THREE moons as the power then spread across Krynn to result in a renassiance of refined arcane magicians. Hundreds of sorcerers felt ephihanies as the identities of those with potential became known to the Conclave
Chemosh quickly departed the place as Mina crawled away. Palin Majere proceeded then to adopt once more the mantle of sorcery as he knew it was too dangerous now to leave unattended as they decided to construct a new tower of high sorcery on the premise which would ALSO train normal sorcerers....a punishment to Nuitari for his treachery.
When I start our next campaign, I'm going to also say the elves have settled around the tower....which has become, because of the magic, a verdant valley.
The "original" party of characters that we'll be returning too are
Valance, 27th level Wizard (Black Robes elf LE)
Regent George of Solamnia 21st level Knight of the Rose (Human LG)
The Speaker of Paladine Athos 23rd level Cleric (LG)
Melissa Whitebow (she changed her name AGAIN) 18th level Illusionist/3rd level fighter (N)
These conversions are probably not to exactitude but I gave leeway since they've been playing since the original set
Our last game was when Valance stole the Torbil for presentation to Raistlin Majere, his 'friend' and mentor (I have him at 36th level) to allow him to read before Takhasis enters the world. He'd be a greater deity then and able to face the gods.
Raistlin sacrificed himself and thus Valance simply returned the book.
(In Gilean's defense, demons of Takhasis had invaded his realm and used a magical weapon to disable him already)
We'd preferred not to disturb "canon" and thus we made our personal vows to alter it in our brain that the Heroes of the Lance were often at work or with us and unnoticed
:-)
We've started up our current game at present anew with essentially just a "giant gap" for the Age of Mortals after a BIG showdown with the Battle against Chaos.
Chaos' avatar showed up in the undiscovered (by normal Ansalomians) continent of Zentilur (basically our homebrewed Oriental Adventures land populated almost entirely by half-elves, dragons, half-dragons (this was before we knew they couldn't exist on Krynn), and Ogre Magi and the players ended up having to battle the thing to the last.
Chaos' avatar was destroyed even as the Regent of Solamnia drove the Sword of Vinus Solamnius (our version of Caliburn) into the things mouth and killed it...thus destroying a substantial portion of Chaos' power.
We knew that Sir George would be in his 90s when the Age of Mortals truly began and frankly it was good to let the man die with his "boots on" so to speak. We also knew we wanted to skip over the "Age of Dragons" largely.
It's a noble thing to kill a Hero of the Lance who survived this entirety of long things. It was still kinda sad since he was still pushing seventy and played him like Sean Connery out for one last battle.
***
The issue of the Politics of the Conclave in our game started up thus and made the issue a very interesting one personally as Valance, the "Loyal Oppositon" to Dalamar in the Black Robes (the character has specifically stated his 24th level mage does not want the leadership of the Conclave even if he does want to play politics alittle more than he usually has been) started our new game off with some of our former henchmen who are stepping up to become PCs.
Here's The Codex for a New Age that he drafted up for wizards to follow, I'll post it verbatim.
Friends, Rivals, Respected Enemies, lend me your open hearts. The grace of the Moons has returned to us and restored the greatest of loves to us. Some of you may look at me slightly askance and mutter amongst yourselves for you never lost magic in the first place, at least not for very long.
Takhasis Dead Dragon taught us Necromancy and Sorcery to fill the void left behind and prepare to raise our order into her own image. There is no shame in having taken up the practice for all of us were thoroughly fooled on some level.
I also note that many faces here are of those who never knew the original magic of the Moons. Elves, the few Dwarves who grace us, half elves, and young humans are mostly those who remain of those who could recall the original days when we had our vast libraries and magical objects to compensate for our lost power. Many more of you mortals though are coming to your power for the first time and see now the three moons looking down upon you who refine our magic.
In a very real way, we must do as the clerics did after the Cataclysm and now. We must come to an age where we are unknown and figures of legend. We must teach the ways of magic without the respect and fear we've had before and we must do so against powers that will occasionally rival our own. Unlike the War of the Lance, the mystics and the renegades along with the sorcerers are numerous and quite simply...we have to show our way is better despite not being as quick or easy.
I propose thus the following things be accepted not into law but the heart of every magius who travels these realms. Memorize each and hold them in your heart.
1. Watch for the potential of magic in every mortal you encounter. In days past we would choose from those who suited our tastes and prolictivities. Instead, we must do our best to see that every mortal who can become a wizard of power must do so. Know no prejudice for subrace, creed, or species.
If you cannot take them on as an apprentice, mark well their person and location to pass onto others
2. The title of Master Magius will now be bestowed not only for accomplishments but upon those who teaches an apprentice to the full rank of completion of the Test. We must value the wisdom and counsel of those whom lead others to greatness as much as the great themselves.
[b]3. Recover all objects of power and lost lore. Countless objects were thrown away as useless yet are rechargable or simply had their magic drained away for a time by Takhasis. Similarly, books of arcane magic fell into the hands of innumberable beings whom have no respect for the Conclave's law. Do your best to see they return to us. No longer can we simply horde our tools for ourselves and thus objects should also remain "Conclave property" to be lended and shared as seen fit.
As a note, some items are clearly made for warriors or other professions. These items should be simply made sure to be in the hands of "wizard friends" if I am to use a term from my own...former...people.
4. Make no war* on sorcerers. The looks on the faces of many decry the deep and bitter feelings of those who did not take up the practice versues. those whom did. In truth, we are too weak to wage such a war. For some there are moral reasons and even the Moons seem divided on the issue. It is also possible for them to become as us.
For that reason, we must decry for now to simply be aware sorcery is not our concern. At best we shall promote magic by showing them dearly how well ours is superior.**
5. Work to improve the respect and awe magi recieve as well as relations with others. While I myself come from an age when wizards knew only they could only rely on each other, such is now not affordable. The White Robes have made peace with the Knights of Solamnia and it is my position we must as a whole do the same as best we can to each create individual ties for ourselves with powerful groups.
The Knights of Nekara are sorcerers but it is possible someday they could sport Black Robes anew and be bent to our will. The Legion of Steel has many red and white robes amongst it. The Elven people are in dire need of magic of all kind. Let us each aid our nations, aware that as we form these subgroups that our first allegiance is as always to magic.
6. Let us Expand. Too long have we huddled here in Wayreth and it took a renegade to restore Palanthas to us. Schools must be opened across Krynn and new towers raised to be enchanted over time and power laid upon them. Under the sea and in new continents, the principles of the Test and our order must encompass all nations.***
We shall stay united from a central authority here but further "sub-conclave heads" will be chosen by the main to head these orders.
I believe these represent a hope for magi Krynn wide. I believe that we must do this if we are to become the power we have the potential to be again and even beyond.
-Valance the Black
* As an in-game note, this was actually code to Black Robes. War would be official conclave sanctioned attacks on them all, as the disastrous White Robe had done. Valance is making careful note to express that murdering individual sorcerers one by one is entirely acceptible.
** This is further extension of the code. You can show them so by killing them with it.
*** A personal note was that Valance has always bitterly despised Taladas and has often taken minotaur apprentices to work to undermine their own magical traditions and spread the cult of the Black Robes.
Ironically, were not they all have joined the Conclave after travelling from Silvastani, they'd themselves be considered renegades.