Two and a half years (real time, 10 years in the Demiplane) since my PCs (who count 9) begun their life-journeys from different parts of the world and 3 years since my initial infatuation with a new setting (we were fans of DRAGONLANCE and PLANESCAPE campaigns) , I have read over 10 speculations about the Dark Powers, read almost all novels,accessories, adventures,etc , have even made a couple of my own specs, I'M STILL NOT SURE.. and since you all must know, plz tell me. What exactly in the name of Zeus (yes we're from Greece) are the Powers? (i won't write down all theories cause you probably know them and will get bored, if you haven't already)
forgive me for the large introduction, i'm usually laconic
For a non-canon version, you might want to read the last Azalin novel (I can't remeber the name ATM; King of the Dead?), in which I believe they give a brief explanation of the powers.
The novel you refer to is The Lord Of The Necropolis i think, i've ordered it but it has yet to come
Skyclad, the simple answer to your question is : no one knows for sure.
As you stated yourself, there are dozens of theories, none confirmed. The creators of the original Realm of Terror boxed set may have had an idea but, if they had, they didn't see fit to share it.
And, you know what, I am glad they didn't. As long as DP = mystery, every DM out there is able to "retro-fit" them into his campaign without having to worry about wrecking canon material.
Asking here is only going to get you another dozen wild ideas but no hard fact.
That novel wasn't exactly "canon" and I wouldn't trust anything written in a novel about the DP. Even the little "chat" between Strahd and .. well, Death (for lack of a better name) in VotM wasn't exactly enlightening in that regard.
Skyclad, the simple answer to your question is : no one knows for sure.
Good,I couldn't be more satisfied knowing there is no answer.Thank you both
Oh,and something less vague (i hope). Why the hell does the Gentleman Caller messes with everything? Is it just his nature or is there some unknown relationship he shares with the Dark (or other) Powers? He may be the reason Isolde has come in the demiplane afterall.
Ingame, *if* it is known to characters (bardic knowledge check DC 50 anyone?) it's unknown what they are.
Out of game, the Dark Powers, The Mists, etc.: they are you, the DM.
Oh,and something less vague (i hope). Why the hell does the Gentleman Caller messes with everything? Is it just his nature or is there some unknown relationship he shares with the Dark (or other) Powers? He may be the reason Isolde has come in the demiplane afterall.
Eh, you just asked the second RL question to which no one has an official answer :D
That said, he is indeed the reason Isolde showed up in RL. After all, she was determined to finish him. So much so, she agreed to follow him there even knowing she was walking into a place where her normal powers couldn't help her. Fact is, I consider it a minor miracle in itself that her hatred for him hasn't turned her into a darklord yet.
As for the Gentleman Caller, he does seem to have a hidden agenda. At the very least, he has been creating offsprings in various domains throughout the years, and I doubt it was just because of some hormonal urge...
His guest star appearance in Gazetteer V seems to indicate he knows more about what's going on "behind the scene" than one might believe, and confirms he doesn't want others to interfere with what he has been doing.
IMC, I use him as a "secret agent" from Vecna that, through his actions, will eventually cause the entire realm to "crash down" (as during the GC, only worse). That's Vecna's way of punishing the DP for keeping him in a virtual jail for several years. They can continue to have fun with their carefully constructed "lab maze" but they will have to rebuild it from scratch.
(1) The world of RL is a running experiment to study how and why mortal souls can fall into darkness. This assumes the DPs are evil and have a long term interest in mortals in the planes at large. The bulk of NPCs are probably abductees from the planes to populate the "lab". Typicaly DMs describe (in their mind) the DPs as a young diety, collection of young dieites, or a powerful cabal of epic level outsiders (fiendish lords, the most powerful Aracnoloths...whatever). Outside powers/gods possibly have limited access due to the problems of facing the the experimentors on what amounts to their home turf. Adventurers are interesting pieces of the puzzle and emninetly worthy of temptation.
(2) The world of RL is a prison/hell for some of the foulest souled people born to the world. This generally suggests the DPs could be neutral or perhaps even good. The bulk of the NPCs possibly aren't "real" but just contructs of the mist to help reflect the sins of each DL. A problem with this is that some DLs like Gabby appear to have been born inside RL. Adventurers who get grabbed in "weekend from hell" scenario are taken in the expectance that they will further frustrate the Dark Lords designs. Adventurers who are "local" serve as a heroic example of what the DL failed to become. In this scenario the DPs are the jailers, remote and largely uncaring. Outside powers/gods just don't interfere in this scenario as the "prison" is doing an important job and shouldn't be lightly meddled with. Also the NPCs possibly aren't real.
(3) The world of RL is a beach head into the "planes" from some other further removed source. This suggests that the DPs is an entity (or are entities) that are either incompatible or hostile to the rest of the gods in creation. By damning the DLs it steals or copies chunks of reality to expand its presence into the "real world". I personally like this idea most just because it then means the DL are made in their gods image - trapped in a finite area with largely frustrated desires. Adventurers, so long as they don't kill or redeem DLs, are mostly irrelevant in this scenario.
Know no one knows all about the Gentleman Caller either except that he "stirs the pot", is chased by an angel, and seems to have big plans. His big plans might be nothing more than escaping while leaving his nemis Isolde stuck in RL for ever. Depending on the model you choose some other roles leap out to me as appropriate to incorporate as a DM.
(1) In the first model he might be auditioning to join the experimentors, stealing the secrets they've uncovered for his own use an as incubus, or trying to figure out who the experimentors are on behalf of other planar powers.
(2) In the second model he might be trying to effect a jail break, or see which fallen mortals get caught up (so that those he pulls into damnation might avoid their fate to continue to cause trouble in their homeworlds).
(3) In the third model he may be looking to enhance his own power by learning the secrets of the DPs or even stealing their power. He might also have been left no recourse fleeing to RL desperate as it was to escape retribution from Isolde
-Eric Gorman
I have some of the 3rd edition S&S/Arthouse books (CS, DMG, DoD & that booklet which comes with the DM screen), but I never read anything on this figure.
Thanks in advance!
Nice one.Something like the "shadows of the gods"(yours being more independent and less vengeful) of the Manusa lore.
Montepierre, Vecna hasn't arrived in the demiplane yet in my campaign (we're just before the Requiem) but even if he had, the Gentleman seems quite far more interesting than that. It is strange though, just how does an incubus always escapes trouble ( not Isolde,the phantom flyers are good at that). Even for a demon he can't be too powerful for a couple of domain lords (if they have noticed him) like Azalin to get him. An incubus is very elusive, intelligent and resourceful but not very strong (even in the demiplane where skeletons can be terrifying)
Well, glad to have chosen two most mysterious subjects, even happier no answer exists.More will come in the future be sure.Thanks
Montepierre, Vecna hasn't arrived in the demiplane yet in my campaign (we're just before the Requiem) but even if he had, the Gentleman seems quite far more interesting than that. It is strange though, just how does an incubus always escapes trouble ( not Isolde,the phantom flyers are good at that). Even for a demon he can't be too powerful for a couple of domain lords (if they have noticed him) like Azalin to get him. An incubus is very elusive, intelligent and resourceful but not very strong (even in the demiplane where skeletons can be terrifying)
My point exactly. In Gaz V, he threatens to pay a visit to Azalin himself if the latter continues to interfere in "his business". Even if he was an augmented demon, he wouldn't stand a chance against a darklord lich (although his reality wrinkle would allow him to escape Darkon if it came to that). So, my guess is that:
a) he is even more powerful than we suppose
OR
b) he acts as the proxy for someone stronger than he is
Back in 2E, I remember reading that the GC had been intended more as a plot device than a "real" NPC character. That suggests that even back then, the authors of the RL campaign didn't want their "pet" to lower himself to the point of melee combat with PC.
By making him a proxy (as per the 2E Planescape rules) for Vecna, I simply found a way to express that in game-mechanics for my campaign. That doesn't mean other RL DMs have to go the same way. I was just offering a possibility. Whatever works for you in your campaign is fine of course.
Oh, and it's Mortepierre ("deadstone") ... ;)
a) he is even more powerful than we suppose
OR
b) he acts as the proxy for someone stronger than he is
Good idea ,never thought about a proxy.Can it work in here? I mean sure Vecna is a demigod but shouldn't he have truly ulimited power or people believing in him to have a proxy? Or maybe the DP allow it.(the proxy-gods-souls thing is a mess for me,our planescape DM never allowed us to read his books)
By the way,how can i get the gazzetteers here in Greece?
Q: Where is this "Gentleman Caller" (sounds like an alias of some kind of escort-service client BTW) mentioned?
I have some of the 3rd edition S&S/Arthouse books (CS, DMG, DoD & that booklet which comes with the DM screen), but I never read anything on this figure.
Thanks in advance!
Understandable. In 3.XE accessories, he has rarely been mentioned by his "nickname".
He was "born" back in 2E. You can find bits and pieces of info about him in the following accessories (among others):
- VR Monster Hunter Compendium (volume III)
- The Evil Eye
- Carnival
For a good description, turn to Gazetteer V, p.81-82
Good idea ,never thought about a proxy.Can it work in here? I mean sure Vecna is a demigod but shouldn't he have truly ulimited power or people believing in him to have a proxy? Or maybe the DP allow it.(the proxy-gods-souls thing is a mess for me,our planescape DM never allowed us to read his books)
By the way,how can i get the gazzetteers here in Greece?
I don't see why not.
First of all, Vecna is a lesser god now (ever since the events of Die Vecna Die!). Second, someone/something becomes a proxy when invested by the god, not because of the strength of belief of worshippers. His/her/its powers come directly from the deity, although he would certainly enjoy temporal powers among believers aware of what he/she/it is. That doesn't mean those powers won't be twisted a bit by the DP, but they will still be there.
The way I see it, the GC visited Cavitius and struck a bargain with Vecna, becoming his proxy. Later, Vecna managed to break free but the GC was left behind .. with a task that resolves around paying back the DP for daring to hold Vecna captive.
To the GC, it's a win-win bargain.
Being the proxy of Vecna means he has enough powers to avoid defeat at the hands of Isolde (if the latter ever catch him).
Being a fiend means he can travel around RL without hindrance (since he can even cross a closed domain border), thus being ideally suited for the task Vecna wants him to perform.
Finally, if he ever succeeds and RL comes crashing down, he will be free to roam the multiverse again but this time as the proxy of a dangerous god, not as a simple fiend
As for getting RL accessories, have you tried Amazon.uk? Or Leisure Games? They deliver anywhere in Europe if I am not mistaken
Still have to get my hands on the gazetteers. Is he somewhat related to the male outcast sorcerer the vistani fear so much?
You might say that. According to canon lore, the GC is the father of the only Dukkar currently in existence (Malocchio). Event described in The Evil Eye 2E module.
You might say that. According to canon lore, the GC is the father of the only Dukkar currently in existence (Malocchio). Event described in The Evil Eye 2E module.
Another one for that.Is Malocchio really a Dukkar now? I mean, sure he has wiped off all vistani in and around Invidia and still does,he's a halfdemon too, but since the vistani trapped him eventually in his borders and he can't wreak havoc anymore shouldn't we consider the Dukkar title history now?He is not a threat for the demiplane's fabrics anymore. In my campaign,he is no more a dukkar (actually one of the players might turn to be the next one)
The only thing holding him back is the Vistani spell that currently binds him to Invidia. Gaz IV made clear that Malocchio is looking for a way to break that spell. The second it happens, he'll grab the first darklord he can and teleport them both out of RL, thus crashing down the place.
I would say he still is.
The only thing holding him back is the Vistani spell that currently binds him to Invidia. Gaz IV made clear that Malocchio is looking for a way to break that spell. The second it happens, he'll grab the first darklord he can and teleport them both out of RL, thus crashing down the place.
How exactly does that spell work? i've read the Evil Eye, some things from the setting but have no gaz's. (btw,you know why a signature doesn't show?)
How exactly does that spell work? i've read the Evil Eye, some things from the setting but have no gaz's. (btw,you know why a signature doesn't show?)
Gaz IV doesn't give a full write-up of that spell unfortunately. Probably because DM & players alike have a tendency to take on anything with game stats, and Malocchio is here to stay (at least till the ToUD)
Long story short, simply consider that Invidia always has a closed border where Malocchio is concerned, one that not even his fiendish-born powers can bypass or overcome. Infuriating when one can Teleport at will...
As for signatures, I don't know. Mine doesn't seem to show anymore either
As for signatures, I don't know. Mine doesn't seem to show anymore either
You need to edit your profile options to show sigs. Just put a checkmark on it and voila! :D
-Eric Gorman
His ability (or lack thereof) to jump around the core is irrelevant IMO to his status as Dukkar, the great and legendary "train wreck in the making" of the Vistani.
On the contrary. According to Vistani lore, the Dukkar is someone who will "bring about the destruction of the entire Vistani people".
In The Evil Eye, the text states that the Vistani cannot allow Malocchio to "roam free".
Moreover, the one and only effect of the Vistani spell cast on Malocchio is to "bind" him to the boundaries of Invidia.
And we know from various sources that IF Malocchio was free, he could teleport himself anywhere, including outside RL, with "passengers" (including darklords)
From all that, it's pretty obvious that the main danger comes from Malocchio's ability to move around. Bind him to one place, and you contain his evil.
Certainly, the fact that he is immune to the divinations of the Vistani and is waging his private war against them are bad news. But the worst thing he can do is make the whole of RL crash down by allowing a darklord to escape its domain/jail.
Inajira's fortunes would soon change, as the Grand Conjunction briefly returned Strahd to the prime plane. The plot of how Inajira would get his book back is integral to the module, but suffice it to say that it was eventually destroyed by coming into contact with the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind. As Strahd and Azalin decided to put aside their differences to stop the PCs from reversing the Grand Conjunction, Inajira intervened to buy them time, stating "if I can't go home, no one will!" The Grand Conjunction was reversed, sending all the darklords (well, most of them) back to their domains. Inajira was taken to the demiplane as well, and is now making a new Book of Keeping. Once it is complete, he plans to take his revenge on Strahd.
what book will he be described in in the current release (I know that's his picture in the DMGs section on Fiends)?
He is fully described in Gazetteer I
On the contrary. According to Vistani lore, the Dukkar is someone who will "bring about the destruction of the entire Vistani people".
In The Evil Eye, the text states that the Vistani cannot allow Malocchio to "roam free".
Moreover, the one and only effect of the Vistani spell cast on Malocchio is to "bind" him to the boundaries of Invidia.
Oh I don't deny that his most dangerous ability is currently neutralized. I read the first post as implying he isn't the Dukkar anymore because he really isn't a threat to Vistani at large. To that I disagree. I don't expect him to be bottled forever.
Given that Hykosa's prophesy also set the grand conjunction in motion (which also brought down the house on RL) it seems that Dukkars do indeed threaten to disolve the core.
-Eric Gorman