Miles.
More accurately, how can you succeed at finding food and water when there is none?
You just answered your own question. When there is NO food and/or water, how can you expect to find any?
Just because a character has a certain skill doesn't mean he can use it 24/7.
Use common sense. Imagine a ranger lost amidst lava flows in the Sanction area. Would you allow him a survival check to find a rabbit? ;)
Yea, I would. Heck you never know if he'll roll a 20. Also if the guy has put lots of ranks in it and rolled high.. I could see him finding something. Heck you are there, so maybe something else will be too? I can see there being instances where no matter what you rolled you can't find anything.. say if your character was for some reason in an empty Bag of Holding or some such. But even barren lands, you could maybe find something edible like bugs in the ground. But I like to encourage people having a lot of ranks in stuff, so I dunno. I like everyone to at least have a chance, if possible. There are very few times a player has a 0% chance in my campaigns for things. Maybe have huge negatives, but rarely 0%.
Remember that life wins all terrible conditions! Maybe in a terrible desert like that, there will be a few insects to eat...
In a harder condition the CD will be even higher!
Never say, it is impossible.
Yea, I would. Heck you never know if he'll roll a 20. Also if the guy has put lots of ranks in it and rolled high.. I could see him finding something. Heck you are there, so maybe something else will be too? I can see there being instances where no matter what you rolled you can't find anything.. say if your character was for some reason in an empty Bag of Holding or some such. But even barren lands, you could maybe find something edible like bugs in the ground. But I like to encourage people having a lot of ranks in stuff, so I dunno. I like everyone to at least have a chance, if possible. There are very few times a player has a 0% chance in my campaigns for things. Maybe have huge negatives, but rarely 0%.
You're talking about game mechanics. I am talking about common sense.
There are times when the latter must win over the former. It's not as if a DM was doing it on purpose to s**** his players, you know?
(silly) examples:
DM: You are standing at the edge of a 100 ft. wide chasm. Sorry, apparently you'll have to backtrack and ..
Player: No way! I have +22 on my Jump check. I try to jump across!
DM: Let me get this straight. You're attempting to succeed at a 100 ft wide jump?
Player: Sure! I maxed out my skill. Don't see why I couldn't be allowed to use it.
DM: ok, try to beat a DC 50 ...
*****
DM: The weird artifact slowly opens a portal, a rift through space and time. Strange energies seem to pulse along its rim, as the pulsating fingers of an incorporeal being. From deep within the swirling cloud of chromatic colors that form the rift's center, a tentacle slowly emerges and ..
Player: Hold. I use my Knowledge (the planes) skill to identify what monster we're facing and from where it's coming.
DM: Uh? But the artifact just opened a passage to a previously unknown plane. How could you possibly know anything about it or its denizens?!
Player: Dunno and don't care. I maxed out my Knowledge skill and the PHB says nothing about "unknown planes". I want a skill check.
DM: Fine. Beat a DC 50 and I'll start talking.
*****
See what I mean? There are situations which the rules just don't cover.
If I was lost in the middle of an area with no food and no water, no matter how much I maxed out my Survival skill, I still wouldn't find any simply because there are NONE to find.
You gave silly examples to prove your point, but I don't personally believe they go along with the poster's situation. You are talking about a "no chance" thing... which is pretty rare..or at least I hope there aren't a lot of no chances in your campaign.
"supporting no flora and little to no wildlife." to me means yes there is very minute things and the common person or even one who has just traveled or knows a little bit is out of luck. But a person who has spent his whole life training himself to survive (a ranger with maxed out survival) and gets lucky (rolls a 20) would be able to find those little things that might sustain him for a little bit longer.
Yes I do admit that there will come times when there can't be a roll, but I try to make these as little as possible. I had a guy try to bluff a Lieutenant by saying he was the lieutenant. He had a bunch of ranks in bluff and rolled a natural 20. There was no, aboslutely, no way you can bluff someone by saying you are him.. but it did confuse the hell out of the guy trying to figure out what he was talking about.
And yes, who knows if you would find a rabbit over by a volcano. Maybe it got lost or was just running around. I'm sure its happened.
I dunno, I guess everyone does skill checks differently.
(silly) examples:
DM: You are standing at the edge of a 100 ft. wide chasm. Sorry, apparently you'll have to backtrack and ..
Player: No way! I have +22 on my Jump check. I try to jump across!
DM: Let me get this straight. You're attempting to succeed at a 100 ft wide jump?
Player: Sure! I maxed out my skill. Don't see why I couldn't be allowed to use it.
DM: ok, try to beat a DC 50 ...
*****
DM: The weird artifact slowly opens a portal, a rift through space and time. Strange energies seem to pulse along its rim, as the pulsating fingers of an incorporeal being. From deep within the swirling cloud of chromatic colors that form the rift's center, a tentacle slowly emerges and ..
Player: Hold. I use my Knowledge (the planes) skill to identify what monster we're facing and from where it's coming.
DM: Uh? But the artifact just opened a passage to a previously unknown plane. How could you possibly know anything about it or its denizens?!
Player: Dunno and don't care. I maxed out my Knowledge skill and the PHB says nothing about "unknown planes". I want a skill check.
DM: Fine. Beat a DC 50 and I'll start talking.
*****
You know what's funny, some of those examples almost sound like some of the crazy/twinkie kind of things my group just might consider. The monk from a previous campaign would most likely try the jump. Either of the wizards from my current campaign would argue the portal example. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on the liklihood of succeeding in certain circumstances, I just thought these examples were too good to pass up a chance to comment on in light of the wackiness of my group.
You're talking about game mechanics. I am talking about common sense.
There are times when the latter must win over the former. It's not as if a DM was doing it on purpose to s**** his players, you know?...If I was lost in the middle of an area with no food and no water, no matter how much I maxed out my Survival skill, I still wouldn't find any simply because there are NONE to find.
Even in the most bleak and remote places there is life. In the harshest deserts, coldest mountains, deepest depths of the sea, etc. In the desert there are going to be things like snakes, scorpians, bugs. Given a high enough roll and enough ranks in Survival anyone, not just a ranger, can find enough of these to sustain him his for a short time. Water is a little different, you can survive a short time off the blood of your kills, perhaps you'll find a cactus or or water stoiring vegetation, and remember, while not recommended, one can always survive a short time drinking their own urine. There are always ways to survive in inhospitable environments, especially if one is trained to, just look at the bedoine.
Even in the most bleak and remote places there is life. In the harshest deserts, coldest mountains, deepest depths of the sea, etc. In the desert there are going to be things like snakes, scorpians, bugs. Given a high enough roll and enough ranks in Survival anyone, not just a ranger, can find enough of these to sustain him his for a short time. Water is a little different, you can survive a short time off the blood of your kills, perhaps you'll find a cactus or or water stoiring vegetation, and remember, while not recommended, one can always survive a short time drinking their own urine. There are always ways to survive in inhospitable environments, especially if one is trained to, just look at the bedoine.
Yeah but it the Burning Lands a natural area ? I mean look at it; the place is all screwed up. Does the Burning Lands even support life ? The desert had plants that contain water so I could see the check being made there; but the Burning Lands is supposed to be scorched right ?
~~~
Yeah but it the Burning Lands a natural area ? I mean look at it; the place is all screwed up. Does the Burning Lands even support life ? The desert had plants that contain water so I could see the check being made there; but the Burning Lands is supposed to be scorched right ?
~~~
I thought it was a giant salt flat, like that place near Salt Lake City where they do race car testing.
I thought it was a giant salt flat, like that place near Salt Lake City where they do race car testing.
Your right I remember the description now. Guess I was wrong; but still where would one find any kind of water on a salt flat ?
Your right I remember the description now. Guess I was wrong; but still where would one find any kind of water on a salt flat ?
Here's something interesting I found on salt flats:
The link was: http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/sabkha.htm
Sabkha is an arabic name for a salt-flat that has come into general use in sedimentology following classic research in the United Arab Emirates of the Arabian Gulf in the 1960s and later. They are flat and very saline areas of sand or silt lying just above the water-table and often containing soft nodules and enterolithic veins of gypsum or anhydrite. A thin crust of halite and gypsum may be present in some parts. Many ancient evaporites show sedimentary feature of sabkhas, such as gypsum nodules.
So with some salt flats, water can lie just a few feet below the surface, ready for the taking. So there's your survival check in an area that otherwise displays no visible water.
Here's something interesting I found on salt flats:
The link was: http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/sabkha.htm
So with some salt flats, water can lie just a few feet below the surface, ready for the taking. So there's your survival check in an area that otherwise displays no visible water.
Thanks for clarifying for those on the thread(including myself) and thanks for the link.
~~~
Thanks for clarifying for those on the thread(including myself) and thanks for the link.
~~~
No prob. You could even use all those funky geology terms sprinkled throughout the web page for any nerdy PCs with ranks in knowledge (geography), just so they sound even more nerdy ... erm knowledgeable. :D
Eh, well yeah. My players will probably just fly over it on Giant Eagles anyway.
Miles.
Yeah, thanks for the info. That was the first thing I'd thought of when I read about the Salt Plains, but I must have missed the part about it being just over the water. I'm still confused as to how there can be no flora. I mean, if there's water just under the surface, wouldn't that support plant life?
Eh, well yeah. My players will probably just fly over it on Giant Eagles anyway.
Miles.
Plant life generally will not grow in a heavy salt area. That's why when you really wanted to screw your enemy back in the days of yore, you'd sow the ground with salt after to beat the snot of them. That way it would be generations before they could plant any sort of crops.
The wastelands leading up to a certain volcano would have a MUCH harder DC to overcome for people looking for food and water who were not prepared for the journey IMHO. Going out there without supplies is tantamount to suicide.
Miles.
Actually, Frostdawn, the flora and fauna section you're referring to deals with the area south of Hurim. The Burning Lands is north of Hurim, and is salt plains. The two areas have different flora and fauna sections. In fact, the major trouble with the Burning Lands as opposed to the area south of Hurim is that there is no shelter of any sort: no caves, no sand dunes, nothing. The heat is deadly, unless the party has brought some sort of shelter.
Miles.
Ahh, ya got me there, I got the areas mixed up.
What our group did was take the cooling rods from the ruins, leaned them against each other, wrapped them in blankets, and essentially made air-conditioned teepees during the day. That, and the group cleric allocated enough resist elements spells to allow for everyone to cross without too much trouble. Most travel was done at night. From there, it was simply a matter of rationing out their supplies, which wasn't bad since the trip took 3-4 days IIRC. If things get too bad for your players, and you don't want to kill them off with the terrain, I guess you could try something like a sinkhole that gives way under them. From here, you could incorporate a small cave system, that might lead to a watersource, thereby allowing the group to restock water supplies. Just a thought. I did something like that, mostly to test my group, since I intentionally tried to seperate them to see how they would handle that kind of dynamic. It also allowed for some interesting little side encounters before they made it back to the surface.
thanks for the info lordofillusions, if that is your REAL name!
First Name: Lord
Middle Name: Of
Last Name: Illusions
:D
~~~