I guess I am saying that they don't have the power right now to threaten anyone. Sorcerors or renegades. Any new recurits are only going to be apprentices and really who is going to trade all of them.
But summarized. Wizards have years of magical learning backing them up, formalized education, and the Gods ephipaning worthy mortals right and left. I suppose its likened best to the conflict between the Devils and Demons.
Sorcerers have had only a few years to develop themselves, their largest enclave was wiped out by the dragons, and are unorganized across the realms.
The Mages on the other hand are an organized body that will almost immediately start recruiting and rebuilding from square one. The gods are also willing to WORK with them.
* Wands
* Scrolls
* Staves
* potions
* Alliances with the budding Churches
* Alliances with the Knights of Solmalia
Only the Knights of Nekara pose any threat that can't be handled by many wizards tag teaming and that's probably why the Knights Auxillary exists. But no, any formalized purges will be done after a couple of decades of heavy recruiting.
I can't imagine that most black robes won't set up "Witches" for burning though
Now there has been a lot of debate about whether the Sorcerors are renegades are not but this isn't my question here. Really I was wondering if the Towers of High Socery considered them renegades what chances do the wizards have of backing it up. Really what chance do they have of backing any of it up. I guess think of it like this. Very few human wizards are going to exist at this point. As most of them became old and died in the 40 year span or so inbetween. Elves would have many wizards still. At the same time it would seem unlikely they would draw in the recurits they once did. Since they are not the only path to magic anymore.
I guess I am saying that they don't have the power right now to threaten anyone. Sorcerors or renegades. Any new recurits are only going to be apprentices and really who is going to trade all of them.
He's got a point. I know the Wizard Conclave books are set a few years after WoS, but there really aren't too many old school wizards left. It's going to take a few generations of wizards before you see them come close to rivaling the power they once held pre-SC. Right now they are sitting back trying to gather recruits and allies until they can once again enforce their intolerance upon Ansalon's arcane spellcasters. It's like the militant mullahs in the middle east with them. It's their way, banishment, imprisonment, or death.Not real open to competition, haven't they ever heard of the Free Market at work. If you offer a good that's better than the competitions, then you will gain the market share. Competition is good, it encourages progress and inventiveness.
Sorry about that I just had to vent...bad week.
And if the good secretly releases Iolanthes to destroy the world or destroys Ansalom? The Wizards intolerance is based on the idea that sorcerers are a walking set of A-bombs.
In any case, the Wizards are largely content to let them be actually. Only Nuitari wants to wipe them off the face of the Earth and without a united stand...chaos will reign.
There has been much discussion on this on these boards the past week or so. I think that if you reference any of the threads dealing with the Towers of High Sorcery, the Test, or things along that line, you might see what we have been discussing. You might find something that you enjoy as well!
Actually thats why I brought this up. All the debating about this which I have read. Also in response to Charles the Wizards were an organized body but many would of left over the 40 year period. Many also turned to sorcery and I'm guessing wouldn't change back. I wouldn't be suprised if many died. In the early days they are weaker then your average commoner. No I don't think they are any position to even threaten the weakest of renegades within their own orders.
Now whether they are going to or not is really for a different post.
Curiously, these neo-WOHS pathetic dweebs are in fact ACTUALLY JUSTIFIED in their belief magic would return.
Almost all of Palin's students no doubt changed since they were tuaght sorcery like Arcane magic and the gods are probably "free" for gifts for a while.
Realize that the gods offered Palin and Dalamar their youth back, I think honestly the gods will be offering at least magical items aplenty to lure faithful back.
Besides, oddly enough...Liches and plenty of other undead are going to swell the ranks while the elves are almost all no doubt taking refuge with the Wizards in the wake of the other option being living in a dust plain. Half elves are concievably alive too.
Dwarves too are showing they in fact have also had wizards always.Ogre Titans too are showing up.
Admittedly, its a much much much much much much much much much smaller number than before...perhaps only hundreds but hundreds of magic users being ACTIVE is alot more than any individual sorcerer could counter.
[You offer a good that's better than the competitions, then you will gain the market share. Competition is good, it encourages progress and inventiveness.]
And if the good secretly releases Iolanthes to destroy the world or destroys Ansalom? The Wizards intolerance is based on the idea that sorcerers are a walking set of A-bombs.
In any case, the Wizards are largely content to let them be actually. Only Nuitari wants to wipe them off the face of the Earth and without a united stand...chaos will reign.
Uh...they never let Choas out. Never even came close. Ther worst they did, according to the gods of magic, is they inadvertently unleashed a magical storm that lasted about one hundred years. Of course the sorcerer that is hiding his identity from the wizard in my group takes that bit of history with a grain of salt, due to the fact that it cannot be confrimed by anyone but the wizards and their Timereaver spell. Convenient huh. The Irda with their use of High Sorcery and innate sorcery, not Primal Sorcery, let loose Chaos. According to Cam, Primal Sorcery doesn't work unless Chaos is there to fuel it, and that it stopped working sometime shortly after the first three wizards set up the Orders. Of course I've never read or heard that except anywhere but here. (No offense Cam) My personal opinion is that it fell into disuse and then was lost until Taky reintroduced it. Of course, that's just the way I see it.
Sorcerors (and mystics) are mostly on their own. This may provide a heady sense of independence, but it also means that you don't get any backup from a higher power.
You also cannot rule out the impact of Epiphany. Coryn is an example of a young person, with a bunch of levels of sorceror, who switched classes to wizard. There are also other young sorcerors from Palin's Academy that are aligning with the WoHS. Epiphany means that those who are not just low-level beginners can switch classes and become wizards.
The gods are going to work that angle heavily. Some, like Mishakal, are already making serious inroads among mystics. Simple bribery and the promise of magical knowledge and items can have a major impact on people's thought process.
According to Cam, Primal Sorcery doesn't work unless Chaos is there to fuel it, and that it stopped working sometime shortly after the first three wizards set up the Orders. Of course I've never read or heard that except anywhere but here. (No offense Cam)
This is in the DLCS, in a sidebar with the header "Influence of Chaos". Should be right after the mystic in Chapter Two. It's also where it states that both sorcery and mysticism were brought into being by the Graygem, rather than sorcery alone.
Cheers,
Cam
This does raise the question of how long it takes for wild magic to decline once focused magic becomes widespread. Will these powers again begin to fade now that godly magic is again being practiced in the world?
This does raise the question of how long it takes for wild magic to decline once focused magic becomes widespread. Will these powers again begin to fade now that godly magic is again being practiced in the world?
If it does, it probably won't be for hundreds and hundreds of years. Last time, the Graygem wasn't even broken open - this time, Chaos stepped out into the world and was manifest within it for quite some time, all things considered. At this point, barring something stripping those energies from the world entirely, ambient magic will continue to be available to mortals to use as sorcery and mysticism.
Cheers,
Cam
I mean if I remember right Mishikal has basically welcomed them with open arms right? Why would she do this if thier magic is Chaos magic?
Also would the Wizards want to hun them down too as they are using Chaos Magic that would have the same effect on the world as Sorcerers?
Plus won't eventually with Chaos held in the Greygem, the Chaos magic go away?
Or is there a way to "use up" all of that magic?
If not technically hasn't this type of magic been around the whole time then?
Wow that was a lot more questions than i meant for it to be. Hope I can get some answers.
GCS
To make as many into clerics as possible
or
She doesn't see the danger
or
She's a short sighted fool
[Also would the Wizards want to hunt them down too as they are using Chaos Magic that would have the same effect on the world as Sorcerers?]
Reactions
"It's the clerics problem"
"They know sorcery better than they know mysticism"
"let's deal with one thing at a time"
"Sorcery is often used for a tad bit more destructive stuff"
"DIE FOOLS!"
[Plus won't eventually with Chaos held in the Greygem, the Chaos magic go away?]
Potentially, its also possible that the Graygem's continued existence means that chaos will continue to fill the world with chaos magic. Another possibilty is paths are forming directly to it that will never go away.
[Or is there a way to "use up" all of that magic?]
"Possibly."
"It may exist forever."
"Chaos might be able to supply it from his prison. Palin was a wizard not Reorx recall."
[If not technically hasn't this type of magic been around the whole time then]
Yes since the Graygem has always been around but its been extinct for most of the time. High Sorcery was also what wizards were originally taught but it was ruled too destructive.
I mean if I remember right Mishikal has basically welcomed them with open arms right? Why would she do this if thier magic is Chaos magic?
Each god will react differently to sorcery and mysticism. The gods of balance will see ambient magic as a balance of sorts to focused magic. The gods of magic see sorcery as a threat (especially with the magic storm), so they're very concerned. Note that Lunitari is finding some fascination with it.
Mishakal is a goddess of healing. I could see her trying to heal the rift between focused and ambient magic-users. While many mystics at the Citadel of Light will convert and become clerics, not all will. Mishakal is just happy that they kept her teachings going for all these years, and since they follow her teachings (even if they don't gain power from her), she feels they are safe.
Each god will act on his own portfolio and goals. What areas they control will determine how they react to ambient magic-users.
The reactions of the other good gods may be mixed. Branchala would look favorably on bards, and I'm certain Majere would be okay with mystics who were into meditation and the perfection of one's self. Kiri-Jolith and Habbakuk may only go after evil mystics, and would work to honor the works of their father.
As for the evil gods, again that depends on their portfolio. Sargonnas would focus his wrath on mystics who took away from his worship. Morgion wouldn't care either way, really, so long as there are those who spreads disease. Chemosh would probably be a bit upset at this upstart "necromancy" magic, as it touches upon his domain. Hiddukel wouldn't want his own followers to go towards mysticism, but would probably encourage it in areas where it may disrupt the worship and plans of other gods.
Also would the Wizards want to hun them down too as they are using Chaos Magic that would have the same effect on the world as Sorcerers?
The WoHS are interested in arcane magic. They're leaving the mystics to the Citadel of Light, especially since they've got so much on their plate the way it is.
Plus won't eventually with Chaos held in the Greygem, the Chaos magic go away?
The power of the Greygem was just a portion of Chaos' power. This time around, his full power has been unleashed onto Krynn. It may eventually fade away, but that would be millions of years down the road.
Arcane magic was brought into the world through the intervention (i.e. intrigues) of the three Gods of Magic. Wild magic however is highly unstable, being derived from Chaos and the threat of chaotic magic running amok might have turned the rest of the three pantheons against Arcane magic had not the three magical deities introduced a system to bring order to it so that it wouldn't threaten to wreck the world.
Thus the Gods of Magic need to be mindful of how Arcane magic behaves in the world. The other gods might prove just as happy if no Arcane spellcasters lived on Krynn. So in order to preserve their beloved art, they feel a need to make sure it doesn't destroy the Balance.
It wouldn't take millions of years to drain away the wild magic and bring it all under Focused control. It took far less time than that after the gods first established the Orders of High Sorcery during the Age of Dreams. By the Age of Might wild magic was virtually absent.
Mystics are another issue. By their very nature they detract worship from the gods, which is partially bad. However, they can also apply their spiritual powers to furthering the aims of gods.
This is the case with Mishakal and the Citadel Mystics. The majority of them revere her anyway because of Goldmoon's teaching. Thus they also further her goals in the world and being a tolerant (Neutral Good) goddess she doesn't feel threatened by them and instead wants to guide them towards achieving her aims.
More lawful gods, like Kiri-Jolith, are likely to discourage mysticism, but because he is also good he will probably do so by helping his clerics gain greater prestige in society and letting mysticism wan on it's own.
Evil gods are too controlling to tolerate mysticism. They want to be worshipped, not to encourage independence. So evil gods may take action against mystics, as well as instructing their clerics to do so. I would be astonished if one of them didn't try to convert, subvert or destroy the Knights of the Skull sometime very soon.
But again, the game materials ascribe mystic powers to ambient magic, and again that energy was absent before the Chaos War and Takhisis's creation of her necromantic barrier. As the energy of faith begins to flow back to the gods the ability to access mystic powers may decline.