Here's a rarity for this game...a crunchy thread devoted to debating the nature of chaos as Krynn's overgod (and "leader" of the pantheons) while the High God is thus THE God of all or Iolanthes simply a greater god with extremely powerful abilities.
I tend to make Chaos a Greater God and like Ymir or Kronos, simply the higher level of a powerful chain of being that nevertheless took the other gods by storm since they couldn't deal with his power SHORTLY.
Besides, that wasn't "crunchy" and its open for discussion. They had on these boards Gilean and Mina's rebuttal to it as well.
Gilean's response was Iolanthes was destroyed when he was possessed by Chaos who was the High God's equal and thus they were fighting an avatar of the Dark Side so to speak rather than their deluded and insane brother.
Humongous Overdeity (Insane, Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 10,000d12 + 500,000 (620,003 hp)
Initiative: Always goes first
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: So high you've got to roll 3 d20s in a row to hit him
Base Attack/Grapple: Never misses/Always wins
Attack: Never missing Stomp (Damage = death*)
Full attack: 2 Never missing Stomps (Damage = death)
Space/Reach: Small Krynnish town/half a countryside
Special Attacks: Unmake creation
Special Qualities: Immune, Damage Reduction 500/Special (see vulnerable), Spell Resistance 9,001
Saves: Automatically makes them
Abilities: Whatever he wants (usually picks Str 500, Dex 10, Con 100, Int 50, Wis 25, Cha 2)
Skills: Every skill known (plus some unknown) at +666
Feats: Toughness, plus 3,333 more.
Environment: Wherever mortals need stomping
Organization: Solitary (Unique)
Challenge Rating: 1,000
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: + 2,000
Insane subtype: Chaos is treated as though under the effect of an insanity spell at all times.
Unmake Creation (Su): Anything Chaos strikes is instantly nullified, as per the shadow wight ability, with no save.
Immune (Ex): Immune to all kind of damage you can think of, including but not limited to all physical and magical attacks.
Vulnerable (Ex): Chaos can only be harmed by an unlikely series of events, detailed below.
1. Must be struck by a magical dagger (any kind will do);
2. Wielded by a kender (any kind will do);
3. In the Abyss;
4. Drop of blood must then be collected in shards of the Graygem
* As in dead, destroyed, crushed, smashed, squished, reduced to a footnote, etc.
a catholic interpretation? How do u figure?
Open admissions of the writer. :-)
I'm not sure WotC has any particular policy on the Appendix, though, and the answers to it by Gilean and Mina are unofficial work by one of the Appendix's authors.
Matthew L. Martin
a catholic interpretation? How do u figure?
A grand supreme creator deity. Of course this concept extends to Christianity in general, Kabbalah, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and even some sects of Neopaganism, as well as several religions I'm sure I've forgotten.
In other words, trying to distance yourself from religious overtones in D&D is bunk, particularly in Dragonlance where the deities take such a particularly active role in existence.
a catholic interpretation? How do u figure?
I see it as more Miltonian by way of Tolkien, actually. Chaos as Lucifer among the other angels, or Melkor among the other Valar, etc etc.
Cheers,
Cam
I see it as more Miltonian by way of Tolkien, actually. Chaos as Lucifer among the other angels, or Melkor among the other Valar, etc etc.
Cheers,
Cam
I freely admit the Tolkien homage element, but I only read Paradise Lost once--back in 1993-1994--found it a struggle to get through, and didn't take much away from it.
Milton's poetry may have inspired elements of Tolkien's mythology, but all three of us are drawing on the same fundamental tradition in this case. (Not that I put myself in the same class as either one of them. :-) )
Matthew L. Martin
I'd also liked to know whether Paladine and the others have a relationship, however distant with the HG from this point or not.
I'm pretty sure he'd be Lawful, Iltharanos.
Huh? Why would the God Chaos be Lawful?
Oh man, better lock this topic too, we're straying into info that springs from a novel, and that being a big no-no, we shouldn't talk about the relationship chaos has with the rest of the dragonlance setting. Especially since the majority of information regarding Chaos as a personified individual springs from the backs of some novels, unlike a certain zealot who not only has stats in a core game book but plays a large part in the whatsit-called, history of the game setting and, y'know, serves as one of the major fulcrums on which the over-reaching flow of the setting turns upon.
So much Sarcasim in such a small space, just makes ya smile
But Gilean and co., along with Takhisis and co., saw things totally differently. Such was the power and majesty of both Chaos and the High God that each god saw them in a very different light. To Reorx, Chaos was the "father of all and nothing," maker of the other gods. To Takhisis, Chaos was not "evil," per se, but merely a primal force that order must overcome.
As for stats, I'd make Chaos a Divine Rank 20 deity, and make the High God a Divine Rank 30 overdeity. Both are eternal facets of Creation; without either, the Balance could not exist.
--who knows; perhaps Chaos and the High God are merely two halves of the same being NB
They also indicated that there was, long ago, a bunch of gods who created everything of which the World Serpent (Ahrimane and Jariheri), The Lady of Pain, and a few others were members
Where was this High God mentioned? I've read all the early dragonlance stuff and through the War of Souls and I don't recall any other sort of higher power than Chaos.
DL5 Dragons of Mystery, which was the original Dragonlance sourcebook. Material from there was reprinted in Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home; he's also mentioned in DRAGONLANCE Adventures, Time of the Dragon, Tales of the Lance, the DRAGONLANCE: FIFTH AGE Dramatic Adventure Game, and in passing in The Legend of Huma. The most detail comes from the Appendix to Dragons of a Vanished Moon (hardcover edition only), although some of that's been adjusted in the creation mythos in the DRAGONLANCE Campaign Setting, which also mentions him.
Matthew L. Martin