Dark Sun Online - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dark Sun Online

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2004 4:10:02 http://www.darksunworld.com/ they're making a new dark sun online game if you didn't know
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 19, 2004 9:26:07 I still wonder how legitimate that project is, and how long it will be until WotC sues... And it's not *all* that new.... DSO's been around for what.... a couple years now? :P
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2004 11:41:21 WoC mite wont the game to take off as its
1 no work for them and
2 if its a hit they can then ask for a share
3 they can have a biger base to sell books to if they redo the seting
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2004 12:21:57 If they would only direct all that effort into making a Neverwinter Nights module featuring Dark Sun...

As a side note, they also have the old Dark Sun PC games for download in that page. Along with the illegal use of copyrighted images, its incredible they are still up.
#5
eric_anondson
Sep 19, 2004 12:23:03
WoC mite wont the game to take off as its
1 no work for them and
2 if its a hit they can then ask for a share
3 they can have a biger base to sell books to if they redo the seting

Whether it is no work for WotC is irrelevent. WotC won't want it to succeed if this website doesn't have a license to WotC intellectual property. If this website is working with WotC IP without WotC allowing it, WotC is LEGEALLY required to shut it down! If WotC wants to maintain ownership of their Dark Sun property, copyright laws require WotC to challenge all infringements. If these guys do not have a license from WotC to use Dark Sun IP, they are infringing on WotC's copyright.

Luckily, the website includes this disclaimer:
"©2003 The Avatar Patch ©2003 The Hasbro ©2003 Wizards of the Coast. All Rights Reserved. DarkSun logos, graphics, media and game content are registered trademarks or trademarks of Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast.* Special thanks to Hasbro for permission to re-develop DarkSun Online."

So, there we have it. Hasbro is allowing this group to "re-develop" Dark Sun Online. If Hasbro is granting these guys the right to work with Dark Sun IP, WotC does want these guys to succeed. It is silly to think that if it is a hit, IMO, WotC would then ask for a share. WotC already would have arranged to get a share of the profits, probably by charging a flat fee for the license to use Dark Sun IP. That's the standard practice for WotC.

It will be interesting to see this come through and go live. Frankly, I would hope they'd ditch the mind flayer. ;)

[edit] There are significant issues with regards to use of WotC art. This website is using a non-Dark Sun art piece. The mind flayer from the 3.0 MM. I sincerely doubt that this website had been granted the right to use WotC's 3.0 art of the mindflayer. With that problem, I sincerely doubt that they were given the right to use WotC art and logos for everything else. Even the official Dark Sun fan site (athas.org) wasn't given the right to use Dark Sun art and logs. Athas.org had to create their own!

This is probably a case of just mistaking how much they have rights to use.[/edit]

Regards,
Eric Anondson
#6
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 19, 2004 14:06:52 There's also the chance that they put up the copyright notices at the bottom of their page in the belief that putting it there is enough to avoid legal action - which it isn't. In fact, they are stating that Hasbro and WotC have given them permission to do this, which may very well not be true. Combined with their free downloads of two games that are not public domain/free yet, along with the use of art that they most likely do not have the permission to use - I really doubt at all that they have any permission to do any of what they are doing, and the copyright notice is most likely as legally invalid as everything else on the site.
#7
Kamelion
Sep 19, 2004 14:10:26 I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall the Athas Online guys mentioning that they had Hasbro's blessing some time ago on these boards. Or am I way off on this one?

Likewise, I thought that those games were "abandonware" - free to use due to being so old. Didn't Jon used to have them on his old site?
#8
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 19, 2004 14:23:52 Last I checked, by all rights, the two Dark Sun games *should* be abandonware, but still aren't. The-Underdogs seems to support this: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. When software becomes abandonware, they are very quick on that site to getting them available as a download. I believe that WotC/Hasbro are refusing to let these games go into being abandonware.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2004 14:43:53 From the CD Acess page:

"6 Complete Games. Behold! The Key to Endless AD&D Adventuring. Includes AD&D Dark Sun I & II (AD&D Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and AD&D Dark Sun 2: Wake of the Ravager), Ravenloft I & II (AD&D Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession and AD&D Ravenloft II: Stone Prophet), AD&D Forgotten Realms: Menzoberranzan and AD&D Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse. Bonus: also includes Dark Sun: Crimson Sands Online"

Oddly enough, Genie's Curse can be downloaded for free at the Underdogs.
#10
Kamelion
Sep 19, 2004 15:26:02 What does our friendly neighbourhood mallard have to say about this one?

*Busts out Cake Of WiZO Summoning and offers it around*

This normally gets their attention. Cake anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

:D
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2004 18:11:07 thing is pc cant run the games as is now to bad i dont have a old pc
#12
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 19, 2004 18:35:23 Last I checked, it does run in dosbox, and there is an installed for windows that gets around the disk-swapping problems.
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 20, 2004 10:46:12 Very nice. I remeber playing these gams a VERY (extremely) long time ago. They where good games.

I'm still waiting on my DS mod for NWN. :D
#14
jon_oracle_of_athas
Sep 20, 2004 11:38:04
I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall the Athas Online guys mentioning that they had Hasbro's blessing some time ago on these boards. Or am I way off on this one?

Hey, Athas Online is my site and in no way affiliated with the people you are referring to. You want a lightning bolt or a flensing bolt for your error?
#15
Kamelion
Sep 20, 2004 11:58:37
Hey, Athas Online is my site and in no way affiliated with the people you are referring to. You want a lightning bolt or a flensing bolt for your error?

Not you, dingbat! These other guys what stole your name ! :D.
#16
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 20, 2004 16:58:28
Not you, dingbat! These other guys what stole your name ! :D.

Umm, Kam, they are Dark Sun Online, not Athas Online.

I also don't think they've done *anything* at all, since 2003, possibly not even since the beginning of '03.

I believe GFORCE99, who posts here, is part of them, IIRC.
#17
Kamelion
Sep 20, 2004 17:56:17 Well, I guess I can expect a zap or a flense sometime soon for being dim, in that case ;)
#18
greyorm
Sep 20, 2004 19:03:59
Last I checked, by all rights, the two Dark Sun games *should* be abandonware, but still aren't. The-Underdogs seems to support this: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. When software becomes abandonware, they are very quick on that site to getting them available as a download. I believe that WotC/Hasbro are refusing to let these games go into being abandonware.

Actually, while WotC retains the rights to DarkSun itself, and all its trademarks, what they do not control is any product produced under contract with an outside vendor. As such, whether or not the game gets classified as abandonware is not something they do not have any control over, that would be entirely up to the company who developed the game software, as they retain rights to that product. What this means is that if WotC wanted to rerelease the DarkSun games, they could not; they would have to gain the permission of SSI in order to do so.

[Note: this is the way it generally works -- obviously I'm not privy to actual contractual details between SSI and TSR, which may have given the rights to the game over. Check out the wackiness regarding who owns the rights to "The Bard's Tale" for an idea of how complex copyright issues can become.]
#19
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 20, 2004 19:08:34
Actually, while WotC retains the rights to DarkSun itself, and all its trademarks, what they do not control is any product produced under contract with an outside vendor. As such, whether or not the game gets classified as abandonware is not something they do not have any control over, that would be entirely up to the company who developed the game software, as they retain rights to that product. What this means is that if WotC wanted to rerelease the DarkSun games, they could not; they would have to gain the permission of SSI in order to do so.

[Note: this is the way it generally works -- obviously I'm not privy to actual contractual details between SSI and TSR, which may have given the rights to the game over. Check out the wackiness regarding who owns the rights to "The Bard's Tale" for an idea of how complex copyright issues can become.]

Didn't SSI get absorbed by TSR, and thus inherited by WotC? If so, then technically, yes, WotC would still have the rights to decide.
#20
greyorm
Sep 21, 2004 11:18:35 Nope. SSI was acquired by Ubisoft.
#21
jon_oracle_of_athas
Sep 22, 2004 17:41:28 Hmm. IIRC somebody from Dark Sun Online contacted me last fall about testing the game and providing some feedback, however never heard from that somebody since.
#22
nytcrawlr
Sep 22, 2004 17:45:27
Hmm. IIRC somebody from Dark Sun Online contacted me last fall about testing the game and providing some feedback, however never heard from that somebody since.

I think they all fell off the face of the earth to be honest.
#23
zombiegleemax
Sep 23, 2004 10:31:46 Well, something is being done with Wot[ blessing.

http://www.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=64

Too bad it isn't Dark Sun.
#24
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Sep 23, 2004 13:51:43 Yea, last rumor I heard about D&D Online tho, was it was losing support fast, and will be yet another MMORPG bug to hit the zapper. If not, all the better - but Turbine, WotC and Atari have been rethinking their position on this, and are closly watching the releases of the two big MMORPG powerhouses about to hit the market - EverQuest 2 and World of Warcraft. Depending on their success (or lack of) to determine if the market will be able to handle another MMORPG. Turbine, I believe, already closed down a couple of their other MMORPG projects within the last couple months.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2004 4:10:02	http://www.darksunworld.com/ they're making a new dark sun online game if you didn't know
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 19, 2004 9:26:07	I still wonder how legitimate that project is, and how long it will be until WotC sues... And it's not all that new.... DSO's been around for what.... a couple years now? :P
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2004 11:41:21	WoC mite wont the game to take off as its 1 no work for them and 2 if its a hit they can then ask for a share 3 they can have a biger base to sell books to if they redo the seting
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2004 12:21:57	If they would only direct all that effort into making a Neverwinter Nights module featuring Dark Sun... As a side note, they also have the old Dark Sun PC games for download in that page. Along with the illegal use of copyrighted images, its incredible they are still up.
#5 eric_anondson Sep 19, 2004 12:23:03	WoC mite wont the game to take off as its 1 no work for them and 2 if its a hit they can then ask for a share 3 they can have a biger base to sell books to if they redo the seting Whether it is no work for WotC is irrelevent. WotC won't want it to succeed if this website doesn't have a license to WotC intellectual property. If this website is working with WotC IP without WotC allowing it, WotC is LEGEALLY required to shut it down! If WotC wants to maintain ownership of their Dark Sun property, copyright laws require WotC to challenge all infringements. If these guys do not have a license from WotC to use Dark Sun IP, they are infringing on WotC's copyright. Luckily, the website includes this disclaimer: "©2003 The Avatar Patch ©2003 The Hasbro ©2003 Wizards of the Coast. All Rights Reserved. DarkSun logos, graphics, media and game content are registered trademarks or trademarks of Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast.* Special thanks to Hasbro for permission to re-develop DarkSun Online." So, there we have it. Hasbro is allowing this group to "re-develop" Dark Sun Online. If Hasbro is granting these guys the right to work with Dark Sun IP, WotC does want these guys to succeed. It is silly to think that if it is a hit, IMO, WotC would then ask for a share. WotC already would have arranged to get a share of the profits, probably by charging a flat fee for the license to use Dark Sun IP. That's the standard practice for WotC. It will be interesting to see this come through and go live. Frankly, I would hope they'd ditch the mind flayer. ;) [edit] There are significant issues with regards to use of WotC art. This website is using a non-Dark Sun art piece. The mind flayer from the 3.0 MM. I sincerely doubt that this website had been granted the right to use WotC's 3.0 art of the mindflayer. With that problem, I sincerely doubt that they were given the right to use WotC art and logos for everything else. Even the official Dark Sun fan site (athas.org) wasn't given the right to use Dark Sun art and logs. Athas.org had to create their own! This is probably a case of just mistaking how much they have rights to use.[/edit] Regards, Eric Anondson
#6 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 19, 2004 14:06:52	There's also the chance that they put up the copyright notices at the bottom of their page in the belief that putting it there is enough to avoid legal action - which it isn't. In fact, they are stating that Hasbro and WotC have given them permission to do this, which may very well not be true. Combined with their free downloads of two games that are not public domain/free yet, along with the use of art that they most likely do not have the permission to use - I really doubt at all that they have any permission to do any of what they are doing, and the copyright notice is most likely as legally invalid as everything else on the site.
#7 Kamelion Sep 19, 2004 14:10:26	I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall the Athas Online guys mentioning that they had Hasbro's blessing some time ago on these boards. Or am I way off on this one? Likewise, I thought that those games were "abandonware" - free to use due to being so old. Didn't Jon used to have them on his old site?
#8 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 19, 2004 14:23:52	Last I checked, by all rights, the two Dark Sun games should be abandonware, but still aren't. The-Underdogs seems to support this: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. When software becomes abandonware, they are very quick on that site to getting them available as a download. I believe that WotC/Hasbro are refusing to let these games go into being abandonware.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2004 14:43:53	From the CD Acess page: "6 Complete Games. Behold! The Key to Endless AD&D Adventuring. Includes AD&D Dark Sun I & II (AD&D Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and AD&D Dark Sun 2: Wake of the Ravager), Ravenloft I & II (AD&D Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession and AD&D Ravenloft II: Stone Prophet), AD&D Forgotten Realms: Menzoberranzan and AD&D Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse. Bonus: also includes Dark Sun: Crimson Sands Online" Oddly enough, Genie's Curse can be downloaded for free at the Underdogs.
#10 Kamelion Sep 19, 2004 15:26:02	What does our friendly neighbourhood mallard have to say about this one? Busts out Cake Of WiZO Summoning and offers it around This normally gets their attention. Cake anyone? Anyone? Bueller? :D
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2004 18:11:07	thing is pc cant run the games as is now to bad i dont have a old pc
#12 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 19, 2004 18:35:23	Last I checked, it does run in dosbox, and there is an installed for windows that gets around the disk-swapping problems.
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 20, 2004 10:46:12	Very nice. I remeber playing these gams a VERY (extremely) long time ago. They where good games. I'm still waiting on my DS mod for NWN. :D
#14 jon_oracle_of_athas Sep 20, 2004 11:38:04	I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall the Athas Online guys mentioning that they had Hasbro's blessing some time ago on these boards. Or am I way off on this one? Hey, Athas Online is my site and in no way affiliated with the people you are referring to. You want a lightning bolt or a flensing bolt for your error?
#15 Kamelion Sep 20, 2004 11:58:37	Hey, Athas Online is my site and in no way affiliated with the people you are referring to. You want a lightning bolt or a flensing bolt for your error? Not you, dingbat! These other guys what stole your name ! :D.
#16 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 20, 2004 16:58:28	Not you, dingbat! These other guys what stole your name ! :D. Umm, Kam, they are Dark Sun Online, not Athas Online. I also don't think they've done anything at all, since 2003, possibly not even since the beginning of '03. I believe GFORCE99, who posts here, is part of them, IIRC.
#17 Kamelion Sep 20, 2004 17:56:17	Well, I guess I can expect a zap or a flense sometime soon for being dim, in that case ;)
#18 greyorm Sep 20, 2004 19:03:59	Last I checked, by all rights, the two Dark Sun games should be abandonware, but still aren't. The-Underdogs seems to support this: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. When software becomes abandonware, they are very quick on that site to getting them available as a download. I believe that WotC/Hasbro are refusing to let these games go into being abandonware. Actually, while WotC retains the rights to DarkSun itself, and all its trademarks, what they do not control is any product produced under contract with an outside vendor. As such, whether or not the game gets classified as abandonware is not something they do not have any control over, that would be entirely up to the company who developed the game software, as they retain rights to that product. What this means is that if WotC wanted to rerelease the DarkSun games, they could not; they would have to gain the permission of SSI in order to do so. [Note: this is the way it generally works -- obviously I'm not privy to actual contractual details between SSI and TSR, which may have given the rights to the game over. Check out the wackiness regarding who owns the rights to "The Bard's Tale" for an idea of how complex copyright issues can become.]
#19 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 20, 2004 19:08:34	Actually, while WotC retains the rights to DarkSun itself, and all its trademarks, what they do not control is any product produced under contract with an outside vendor. As such, whether or not the game gets classified as abandonware is not something they do not have any control over, that would be entirely up to the company who developed the game software, as they retain rights to that product. What this means is that if WotC wanted to rerelease the DarkSun games, they could not; they would have to gain the permission of SSI in order to do so. [Note: this is the way it generally works -- obviously I'm not privy to actual contractual details between SSI and TSR, which may have given the rights to the game over. Check out the wackiness regarding who owns the rights to "The Bard's Tale" for an idea of how complex copyright issues can become.] Didn't SSI get absorbed by TSR, and thus inherited by WotC? If so, then technically, yes, WotC would still have the rights to decide.
#20 greyorm Sep 21, 2004 11:18:35	Nope. SSI was acquired by Ubisoft.
#21 jon_oracle_of_athas Sep 22, 2004 17:41:28	Hmm. IIRC somebody from Dark Sun Online contacted me last fall about testing the game and providing some feedback, however never heard from that somebody since.
#22 nytcrawlr Sep 22, 2004 17:45:27	Hmm. IIRC somebody from Dark Sun Online contacted me last fall about testing the game and providing some feedback, however never heard from that somebody since. I think they all fell off the face of the earth to be honest.
#23 zombiegleemax Sep 23, 2004 10:31:46	Well, something is being done with Wot[ blessing. http://www.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=64 Too bad it isn't Dark Sun.
#24 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 23, 2004 13:51:43	Yea, last rumor I heard about D&D Online tho, was it was losing support fast, and will be yet another MMORPG bug to hit the zapper. If not, all the better - but Turbine, WotC and Atari have been rethinking their position on this, and are closly watching the releases of the two big MMORPG powerhouses about to hit the market - EverQuest 2 and World of Warcraft. Depending on their success (or lack of) to determine if the market will be able to handle another MMORPG. Turbine, I believe, already closed down a couple of their other MMORPG projects within the last couple months.