I'm a DM who started to play Forgotten Realms as a Campaign Setting with my players, but i feel after a few "adventures" that FR ain't my cup of tea and i have been thinking of switching for Dragonlance. Since I'm reading "Dragons of Autum twighlight" i find that the Dragonlance world is more fitting for me as a DM. But there seems to be very little Ver.3.5 material to buy for DL, is that a big concern or do you get much info from the DL Campaign setting? Is it big, big diffrences to go from FR to DL? I haven't found any review's of DL Campaign Settings what do you ppl think?
Many Thanks Vargavinter.
Hey.
I'm a DM who started to play Forgotten Realms as a Campaign Setting with my players, but i feel after a few "adventures" that FR ain't my cup of tea and i have been thinking of switching for Dragonlance. Since I'm reading "Dragons of Autum twighlight" i find that the Dragonlance world is more fitting for me as a DM. But there seems to be very little Ver.3.5 material to buy for DL, is that a big concern or do you get much info from the DL Campaign setting? Is it big, big diffrences to go from FR to DL? I haven't found any review's of DL Campaign Settings what do you ppl think?
Many Thanks Vargavinter.
Glad to hear another fan when another fan is born! Keep reading the books, they only get better. There is a book called the Dragonlance Campaign Setting (DLCS) sourcebook that is a must have for a DM running a DL game, depending upon which age you're going to run your game, you amy wish to pick up the War of the Lance (WotL) sourcebook, which is coming out around the 1st of Oct, or the Age of Mortals (AoM) sourcebook. They will help fill in the blanks and answer questions that the books leave you with.
Major things you're going to encounter switching over are;
No Halflings-The Kender race replaces them. WoTC tried to make the current halfings more kender-like so few changes would need to be made if you wanted to convert any halflings you have to kenders.
No Orcs-Orcs do not exsist on Krynn. Since there are no orcs there are no half-orcs either. Some people, myself included, have a subrace of goblin called black goblins which are basically orcs. Other wise there are half-ogres.
No Drow-drow do not officially exsist on Krynn either. Therefore there are no half-drow either.
The gods are split into 3 groups. Good, Neutral, and Evil. Clerics from other worlds cannot cast spells on Krynn, they are going to need to convert to one the gods from the three pantheons in order to regain their ability to cast spells. Now depending upon which era of play you plan on using, the gods might not be granting spells or even taking clerics. In the trilogy you're currently reading the gods have been absent from Krynn for 300 years after a terrible event called the Cataclysm, which devastated the continent of Ansalon, which is where the books take place. During this 300 year period of time the gods have left Krynn and have no mortal followers.
Also depending upon which age you play in Bards cannot cast spells and there are no sorcerers. Bards (who can cast) and sorcerers do no exsist execept in the Age of Dreams and the Age of Mortals. If you go to dragonlance.com or dl3e.com you'll find fan rules for playing bards without spellcasting.
Wizards are handled slightly different in DL as well, no wizard can legally cast 3rd level or higher spells without belonging to the Wizards of High Sorcery (WoHS). This group monitors, protects, and furthers magic on the world of Krynn. Anyone caught or found to be using "illegal" spells is labeled a renegade and hunted down and given the choice to join, be imprisoned, banished, or killed. In order to join the WoHS a candidate must pass The Test. The test tells the leaders of the WoHS, called the Conclave, whether or not the candidate can use higher magic responsibly and is dedicated to magic first, anything else second.
If you keep reading you'll find out more differences, ths board and the board at dragonlance.com will help as well, also as I mentioned above pick up a copy of the DLCS and it will help greatly.
There's a fair amount of 3.5 material for Dragonlance, it's all currently being produced by Sovereign Press right here. That said, you can easily run a Dragonlance campaign with just the campaign setting book. But if you plan on playing in the current era of the game (post-War of Souls), the other accessories are invaluable (particularly the Age of Mortals accessory). It sounds as though this is your first exposure to Dragonlance? If you find that you really enjoy the setting of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight book, then the two most invaluable gaming books for your campaign would be the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book, and the soon-to-be released (Oct. 1, 2004) War of the Lance book.
But I think the real info comes from the books - AND those books create the magic of Krynn. If you really are new to dragonlance easiest way to start is to read the very first trilogy (before start playing). That should give most needed info (but it helps to read Legends also).
AND then get Dragonlance Core Rulebook and new War of the Lance book (I don't personally have last book, but what I have seen and heard reviews from fans it seems to be GREAT setting book with highly detailed knowledge about War of Lance situation in Ansalon). Next gamebook would probably be Towers of High Sorcery -supplement.
Another good supplement to have, actually I say it is a must have if your are playing in the Age of Mortals, is the Age of Mortals book. This book serves as a companion tome to the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book. You should pick up both of these and study them before you buy the three epic-level modules.
Player: My character rocks.
DM: What is he?
Player: He's awesome. He's a Chaotic Evil Half-Drow/Half-Mind Flayer Chosen of Lolth(template) Psion 15/Cleric of Lolth 10 with his very own cohort (Warforged Fighter 23) and followers (500 Half-orc level 2 Warriors).
DM: Wow, so where's he from?
Player: Neraka.
LoL!
~~~
I'd also like to commend you on your fine choice in campaign setting and novel reading. I mean, "Forgotten Realms"? Sounds like someone just didn't want to do their backstory work and randomly created some world that had "forgotten" parts. :P
Meanwhile, Dragonlance is a high-fantasy world with a decidely lower-magic feel. I say "lower-magic feel" in that, though the characters have magic items and such, not every 2nd level warrior in every town guard in the world has a +1 sword. Very not FR.
If you're reading Dragons of Autumn Twilight (and presumably the rest of Chronicles) I won't confuse you/ruin anything for ya by giving you any more information than you need right now.
My suggestion is to go out to your Friendly Local Gaming Store and leaf through a copy of the lovely Dragonlance Campaign Setting book. I certainly hope you purchase it, as my friend Jamie really needs some new shoes.
If you need more information about any specific topic Sovereign Press has also published a few other books: War of the Lance (dealing with the events leading up to the Chronicles trilogy, as well as the during and after effects), Towers of High Sorcery (dealing with the Wizards of High Sorcery, the enigmatic Test of High Sorcery, and magic in general), Age of Mortals (dealing with the "current" era of Dragonlance), and the Bestiary of Krynn (a Dragonlance specific Monster Manual. Heck, it must be great, it won two silver Ennies.).
If you want to set your campaign in the War of the Lance era; a few differences from standard D&D:
1) No sorcerers or spellcasting bards.
2) All clerics must have a patron deity. So must all druids, as well as rangers who can cast spells.
If you want to include sorcerers and spellcasting bards, as well as all the other classes in "stock" D&D, then playing in the Age of Mortals (post-War of Souls) is the way to go.
Going along with the above: if you're interested in running an Age of Mortals campaign, the wonderful adventure Key of Destiny (written by my good friend Christopher Coyle) was published by Sovereign Press this summer. I've ran my gaming group through it, and it was spec-freaking-tacular. The sequel will (barring Apocalypses and/or ninja kidnappers) be out in January (or so we're told).
If you wish to learn more, Dragonlance.com is the official Sovereign Press website for Dragonlance products. There is also The Dragonlance Nexus for all your fandom articles and news.
Again, welcome to Dragonlance. May the moons always be in the right alignment for your magic, and may the Solamnic Knights never detain you for burning down orphanages.
-TRRW
Pick up the campaign setting and the Bestiary of Krynn. You can do so many things with just these two products. What era do you think that you will be playing in?
Ehm, i didn't know there where diffrent eras to choose from... *Newbie*
Well i thank you all for all the help, and SHALL buy the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. This is goint to be so much fun.
Ehm, i didn't know there where diffrent eras to choose from... *Newbie*
Well i thank you all for all the help, and SHALL buy the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. This is goint to be so much fun.
The one you're reading about in _Autumn Twilight_ is called 'War of the Lance". The sourcebook for that era is newly released (or will be very soon). You don't strictly need it to play, but it might help lend really good flavor to the game.
One thing I noticed no one else remembered to mention: for all intents and purposes the paladin class is a moot point in dragonlance. It's not that they're expressly NOT ALLOWED, but they're non-cannon, as the role that they normally fulfill in a setting is usually filled by the knights of solamnia, but there are always exceptions to this rule, but they should be few and far between :D
Alright...I want to clarify this point......as per the rules of the setting book, Paladins are allowed...and are canon as there are mention of them in canon books! The paladin class is what you call nonstandard.....meaning that there just simply are not tons of them running around on Krynn.......but there are a handful of them.....every god needs a champion.
Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Bestiary of Krynn (Dragonlance Monster Manual)
Addons:
War of the Lance (if you want to play in the Age of Despair - the era of Dragons of Autumn Twilight)
Age of Mortals (this era is roughly sixty years after the war of the lance)
Towers of High Sorcery (if you want a wizard centred campaign, get this)
Key of Destiny (the first module in an adventure series set in the Age of Mortals)
Age of Mortals will allow you all character classes. War of the Lance play means no sorcerers, mystics (a new dragonlance class), nor spell-casting bards.
In the Realms you never know WHAT the hell is around the next corner. There's a million gods, a million plots, a million different monsters and the nations are largely self contained autocracies that are subject to internal strife.
Everything is largely a mystery as to how it is.
Dragonlance is lawful good
Everything in the Realms is easy to understand largely.
You can explain Realms history in fourteen volumes, Dragonlance is Gods create dragons, gods split apart, Gods make mortals, Gods war several times, Ogres have great civilization, Elves have great civilization, Humans have great war with magic and then later the evil gods, evil goody goody theocracy causes punishment from gods, gods return after absence
All the nations are interelated, everything can be traced like Kevin Bacon to a single pantheon that rules the world and has only 21 gods vs. Fr's infinity. Magic and Knights all belong to individual orders
Forgotten Realms is chaotic good.
In the Realms you never know WHAT the hell is around the next corner. There's a million gods, a million plots, a million different monsters and the nations are largely self contained autocracies that are subject to internal strife.
Everything is largely a mystery as to how it is.
Dragonlance is lawful good
Everything in the Realms is easy to understand largely.
You can explain Realms history in fourteen volumes, Dragonlance is Gods create dragons, gods split apart, Gods make mortals, Gods war several times, Ogres have great civilization, Elves have great civilization, Humans have great war with magic and then later the evil gods, evil goody goody theocracy causes punishment from gods, gods return after absence
All the nations are interelated, everything can be traced like Kevin Bacon to a single pantheon that rules the world and has only 21 gods vs. Fr's infinity. Magic and Knights all belong to individual orders
Sounds good! Jus tlike you say in Forgotten Realm i dont know where to start, its just to much. And all the gods... oh my god, serious does every on in FR have a personal God? I seems so... ;)
Sounds good! Jus tlike you say in Forgotten Realm i dont know where to start, its just to much. And all the gods... oh my god, serious does every on in FR have a personal God? I seems so... ;)
Believe me, it could be worse. They could have released Greyhawk like they had intended to with at least 187 gods and...well let's just say the original plans for the Flanaes only get worse. They're trying to disguise right now that its another FR
Allow me some general information to help you get settled down.
The original campaign setting starts in the War of the Lance. The best supplement for this time isn't any sourcebook though but the Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, Dragons of Spring Dawning novels. They'll give you basically an entire summary of the war and aren't 'game fiction' but best seller worthy works that succeed as fantasy indepedent of the world.
The War of the Lance is basically a time when nearly everyone on the continent is an atheist or believing in false gods other than the 21 Good, Neutral, and Evil gods whose relationships are pretty clearly defined out (in FR the people of Krynn cannot take any other gods than these since there are none)
That's when the Queen of Darkness (all the evil gods follow her) leads her armies onto the planet led by dragons (dozens or hundreds depending on the story) with Draconians that are rather nasty cultist-warrior creatures signature of the era. The good dragons are completely absent for some reason and the elves, humans, knights of solamnia (ONLY order of knights in the realm at this time), dwarves, etc are divided.
I recommend this for the beginning because Krynn is easy to understand and everyone can basically get involved in the "OH ****! HERA AND ZEUS ARE BACK AND HERE TO TAKE WASHINGTON!" like disbelief.
It gets complex I fear after that as the novels outnumbered FR for about a hundred times but TSR reigned things in very well so that nothing ever beat the central theme. If you want to play in the many years afterwards, good supplemental reading would be the Legends series (best books in the series and again best sellers), Second Generation, and 'Dragons of Summer flame' (which seemed for a long time to have 'ended' the campaign setting)
Summarized briefly, the defeat of the Queen of Darkness only ticks her off since while possible to challenge the gods of Krynn you have to be a figure more legendary and mythical than any in all of Krynn's past. One wizard, Raistlin majere, does try to do so but aside from the possibility of being his apprentice...doesn't really effect much of Krynn in his very brief war on her.
The QoD then proceeds to start creating a new army a few decades after the original War of the Lance (dragonlance has LONG downtime between metaplot). This one is an honorable LE group of blackguards with a lot of LN folk who basically just believe "fascism=good!" vs. the laughing armies of evil and sauron level badness of the war of the lance.
They invade Ansalom and the gods of good withdraw, causing the continent to mostly fall under their evil sway. This time is a good time for "resistance against the evil empire" type games.
Unfortunately, it doesn't last long before the War of Chaos when a new god (people hated this since Krynn is supposed to have only 21 gods) shows up in Chaos who claims to be the gods creator and more or less dispatches vast armies to eradicate all life on the planet. Heroic unification of Knights of Solamnia and the Knights of Takhasis (the queen of darkness) fight together with the Magi of the Orders of High Sorcery to bind Chaos.
The Gods claim that they have to leave Krynn and this signalled a "bold new face!" for Krynn as TSR ruined the setting.
Ignore everything for the next three or so decades game time about huge dragons and no gods, wild magic, and other stuff that wasn't necessarily bad but not Krynn.
The Age of Mortals "begins" with three more slightly forgettable novels that create the current campaign setting that cause the War of Souls. The Queen of Darkness, it turns out, stole the world from the other gods and dragged it through a gate. She was greatly weakened but now the only god, intends to rule forever and ever by coming into the world. Unfortunately, in a bit of deus es machine, the other gods find her and severely punish her by destroying her.
To preserve the balance, the King of Light, stepsdown and now there's only 19 gods (Chaos doesn't count since no one wants to remember him). Everyone starts rebuilding the setting's organizations back to what made it good in the first plae.
That help?
One thing I noticed no one else remembered to mention: for all intents and purposes the paladin class is a moot point in dragonlance. It's not that they're expressly NOT ALLOWED, but they're non-cannon, as the role that they normally fulfill in a setting is usually filled by the knights of solamnia, but there are always exceptions to this rule, but they should be few and far between :D
Paladins ARE ALLOWED in Dragonlance. Human Paladins are rare because they end up joining the K.O.S. But since technically other races can't join the K.O.S.(yes I know there is no race restrictions on the K.O.S.) Paladins or more common in the other races. Don't forget that they mention a Elven Paladin in the W.O.S. book Lost Star(I think that is the name of the book).
In fact someone not so tied down as us in what "is" and "isn't" Dragonlance may find they like it more than the Fourth Age. IMO, early Fifth-Age is a very fun time to game in, and, despite what others think, very Krynnish.
I say just let him get the game material, and decide which era likes the best himself, rather than bang him over the head with "5th Age sux00rs!".
Just my two cents.
And welcome to Dragonlance Vargavinter!!!
People are welcome to disagree with me and point out its benefits but I wanted to give a summary of things from my own experience. I invite anyone else to give a better summary.
I hope he finds what I typed helpful though
1. they meet skie looking for kitiaras soul (maby any spells that could help him with that too) and acidently get transported when he returns. (age of dispair / age of mortals)
2. Their ship sails littealy too far and falls off the earth into the abyss. In a desprat attempt to save their lives an arch mage tries to teloport every one back to shore. He fails resulting in a magical cascade killing him and a most of the crew, then everything goes black, they find their ship has fallen out of the sky on land with them as the only surrvivers. (any age)
3. A mad wizard thinks the world will come to an end and tries to save every one by shifting them to another demention (towns at the time). the pc's face him and defeat him but doing so shifts the tower to another demention. (any age)
4. simple they just die, and jurrny down the stream of souls, getting reincarnated with vage memories of their past lives. (any age)
5. they are plucked by a powerful wizard who summoned them to help in a fight of his, he dies and they never return when the spell expires. (any age)
6. Some mind flayers take the pcs hostage abord their wooden flying ship and go to kryn. a gnome then steals their device to travel home and the pcs have to excape before they become dinner. (age of dispare right after the war of the lance; this is acually a short story in a book (minus the pcs))
7. they are annilated by a shere of anilation but are not destroyed instead they are spat out on kryn(no one could test out this therory because no one could return) (any age)
8. Chaos needs minions so he decides to steal the pcs and turn them into shadow wraths to fight in the battel of the abyss. Right when chaos is destroyed they are transoported to kryn back to their normal selves. (age of mortals)
9. the pcs defeat a major BBEG and he flees through a portable hole (to kryn) when the pcs follow they find out that it was a one way trip. (the hole was used as a garbage dump)
Maby hint at it like they find a cleric in the dungen of the BBEG asking , "Why is't Palidine answering my calls?" or a few creatures not native to FR (any age)
If people are interested in the DL world I dont think it would be either wise or prudent to pass on some of our hang ups which we might have onto them. Allow them to read the material, sourcebooks, novels, errata, what have you and then make up their own minds.
I agree, just welcome them tell them what they need to play in the era(Thet they want to play in.) and leave it at that; unless they ask for your help again.
~~~
Even when I buy a supplement, I often check its reviews to see how my opinions min/max.
Seriously, I invite dissenting opinions to defend the upide of the age of mortals.
I like Palin, I like mysticism, come on'