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#1zombiegleemaxSep 28, 2004 2:40:08 | Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I've been a darksun fan since the mid 90's. Our campaign ended around spring of '01 but recently i uncovered an illustration that brought back to mind some old unanswered questions. after much much internet scouring, dm-interrogating and finally downloading pdfs at 4 something a pop i've reached what i guess is the end of my search. i honestly joined this forum to see xlorepdarkhelm's system for dragon kings as i've been attempting to use it in my own campaign, but since people here seem peculiar about inconsistencies i have some of my own to put in the fray, as well as my own conclusions. they concern the kings themselves, though only a handful of the original 15 are documented statistics wise in the dark sun material, someone posted those references, thank you for that. levels is a good start. DK, the universal source of information on the Dragons lists the levels (Ham21,Lali21,Nib23,And21,Tec22,Aba21,Kal21,Dre27). in various supplements the levels vary. i tried to reconcile this with the pre/post cerulean storm eras (ham23,lali23,Nib24), perhaps as a result of wars or who knows what. CBSOS has Dregoth, but oddly goes between 27th (pg 88,89) in description and 29th (pg8 & in stats), i guess a typo. btw a good silhoutte of the DKs is on pg 8. in CSOT, Kalak is listed as a 25th. as for the 'animal rage' in DK it is listed for levels 25-29. when Borys attained 30th he entered it, im guessing unique circumstances or rush or whatnot. Kalidma was similar, from 21 to 30. technically Dregoth was about to end the animalistic stage in his 30th level ascendency. but CBSOS pains to stress Abalach-Re's hatred of Dregoth as more her reason for terminating him. Interestingly they are the only CE dragons of those published (the rest are LE, save Kalak at NE). Stats are a contention, not pained to put them all up, but Hps alone show discrepency, Borys from WJ rules at 250. for 21 Abalach Re heads the rest at 173, impressively tying with the kaisharga-SK dregoth, 29th. hammanu and nibenay pull in 3rd & 4th with 112 and 107 respectively, and Lali-Puy at 98hp for a 23rd. kalak is miserably at 52, for a 25th. I would guess that as the only SK the players are expected to contend with Abalach-Re is given some berth (and FM gives her the best details of SK defenses outside of Borys in VOD&F.) I can only venture that the writers worked under different premises in individual design. which justifies that Abalach-Re's lowest stat is a 20 (wisdom) and maxing at 24 (consititution). Hps are a mystery to me, ive never understood why 9+ only get 3/lv. but thats another situation. about where it sits in DK, a potential (average) defiler should be a Psion first, for the d6 hp. 4.5 to 9th is better (40) than the 2.5 ave of a wizard's d4 (22), and with duo-classing you gained hp/lv. until you surpassed the original class. since both go to 20, i'd guess youd want the higher hp count in the long run. but adding in 3 per 31 levels (11 psi & 20 wiz) gives you 93. add this to the mandatory at least +1 con bonus (as DK requisite of con15) is +40. so if you started defiler you'd have at least 155, and if as psion at least 173. attaining first level DK is a whopping +10d4 hp, averaging out to 24 hp. so a 21st DK would be averaging 179 or 197 hps respectively. oddly enough i tend to spite people who are rules-picky. alternatively, a minimum hp would be 152 regardless of the class you began in. I'm assuming the DMs are responsible for filling the blanks regarding AC. only Nibenay and Dregoth (&Kalak?) fit the rule for the natural Ac (4,-8 and 1, respectively). across the DS materials authors stress the resources and treasuries of sorceror kings, but aside from Kalak's armoury and the sadly underpowered (well, it IS a +4 metal 2h sword...) hamanu in Prism Pentad, most go bare with strange assumptions. Abalach is ac1. lalali-puy is 0. Hamanu is -2. magic items, or at least enchantments of some note would make it easier, but it is likely to me anyways that these were not meant to be fought (save Dregoth and -Re, and Borys oddly is given combat stats and tactics in 2 books (VOD&F,WJ)). why daskinor, androp and tec were not detailed i do not know. perhaps it was not considered until the line was already up to be ended, perhaps they were written out, given some of their fates in the Pentad. perhaps there was enough source in the Tyr region already, or the design department was holding off them off for the next big supplement. perhaps they were lined up but without priority as the line was nearing its end. or maybe they just wanted to give the DMs something to invest into the world. giving that portion of the world to the DM's whim is good enough for me too, on occassion. im just a fan of doing things right & thorough, if they are done at all |
#2zombiegleemaxSep 28, 2004 3:57:09 | Something worth pointing out is that kalak is listed as a human defiler/psion 25/25, not as a lvl 25 dragon in CSOT. That could explain his HP discrepency based on 2e rules of dual-classing, as well as reconcile the whole thing about his magical power being something all the SMs respected. As for the rage, both borys and kalid-ma entered it. Borys because the rushed metamorphosis and he succumbed to it in the process and it didn't end fer awhile. Kalid-ma because that transformation ended with him/her smack in the middle of it. Abalache-Re, if she succeeded in FM, also succumbs to it. Dregoth was special because he managed to not succumb the entire time he was going through the process (the whole irony of the situation of his murder). Daskinor is also CE. Also interesting is that while tec was 22 lvl, he was also noted in the original WJ as likely being the least magically powerful of all the SMs. |
#3SysaneSep 28, 2004 7:40:37 | technically Dregoth was about to end the animalistic stage in his 30th level ascendency. Just wanted to point out that the Dread King never went during his animalistic stages. |
#4xlorepdarkhelm_dupSep 28, 2004 8:13:22 | I'd reply more, but I'm outta time today. |