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Minotaur in Knight of Neraka?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
XIII
Sep 29, 2004 23:04:28 I have read and re-read the Knight of Neraka PRC in the DCLS and i was wondering, would you allow minotaur in the knighthood?

I have a minotaur player who would like to be a knight of the lily, yet i am not sure if i should allow it.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!
#2
true_blue
Sep 29, 2004 23:26:49 Well they used to allow them when they were Knights of Takhisis. In the back of the Second Generation book they said that fatherless dwarves and minotaurs were able to join. About the only ones not allowed to join were draconians. I dont see why it would change.
#3
Dragonhelm
Sep 29, 2004 23:32:57 Galdar was a minotaur Knight of Neraka in the War of Souls series.
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2004 23:33:58 Hmmm...Minotaur Dark Knight? Huh. I dunno if that would be allowed. Too bad there's no novel precedent...No wait! There is one! But, that's okay, he's pretty obscure...No wait! He was one of the main characters of the War of Souls. Too bad I can't remember his name...No wait! It's Galder!

Sorry about all that...I wasn't trying to be offensive...but, he *WAS* a min character...
#5
quentingeorge
Sep 30, 2004 1:23:55 Yep, Galdar was a prime example of a minotaur Knight of Neraka.

I don't think you'd find any outside of the Order of the Lily, however.
#6
Sysane
Sep 30, 2004 7:26:07 On a sort of related topic, I had a Minotaur PC who eventually became a minor Dragon Highlord of the Shadow Wing (one guess what type dragons those were) during an old War of The Lance campaign I ran.
#7
XIII
Sep 30, 2004 8:01:16 Actually, you're right!

Sorry for the stupid question, it was late, i had just finisehd my weekly game, and my player asked me that question, i think my brain was at idle.

Anyway, thanks for your answers!
#8
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 9:13:44
I don't think you'd find any outside of the Order of the Lily, however.

Oh, I don't know about that. I would think there would be less minotaur Skull Knights and that a minotaur Thorn Knight would be extremely rare, but I could see it.
#9
cam_banks
Sep 30, 2004 9:28:26
Oh, I don't know about that. I would think there would be less minotaur Skull Knights and that a minotaur Thorn Knight would be extremely rare, but I could see it.

I'm not sure the Order of the Skull or Thorn would open itself up to many non-humans, to be honest. The Skull knights are the ones in charge of brainwashing the squires and recruits, and the Thorn knights are responsible for long-term strategic planning and initiatives, so the more that's in the hands of the humans who make up the overwhelming majority of leadership, the better.

I got the impression from Galdar's backstory that his being a minotaur was cause for a lot of mockery and abuse by other knights. You'd have to be crazy to leave the minotaur empire and Sargas to join that kind of fascist Takhisis-worshipping crowd - or an outcast.

Cheers,
Cam
#10
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 10:04:52 Oh, agreed. Most minotaurs wouldn't join the knighthood, as they would have to take orders from lesser races. Even if they did, the Order of the Lily is more suiting for them, as they're all about physical might.

Minotaurs who were outcasts would find the Knights of Takhisis appealing based on their code of honor, or at least they would during the Chaos War. I could see an outcast minotaur cleric of Takhisis becoming a Skull Knight (Gee, I wonder why he's an outcast!). Thorn Knights are the most unlikely of all.

I don't think that minotaur Skull and Thorn Knights are impossible, but I do think it to be unlikely.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 11:15:52 Why wouldnt elves and half elves be allowed in the Thorn Knights?
#12
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 11:26:14
Why wouldnt elves and half elves be allowed in the Thorn Knights?

They would.

The races allowed in the Knights of Takhisis, according to the 2e rules in Second Generation, are as follows:

Humans
Half-Elves
Dark Elves
Fatherless Dwarves
Minotaurs

I would expand this to include half-ogres, personally.
#13
Sysane
Sep 30, 2004 11:31:39 Maybe this should be in another thread, but could a Minotaur be one of the KoS PrCs? I don't see anything that would disallow them becoming one.
#14
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 11:35:50
Galdar was a minotaur Knight of Neraka in the War of Souls series.

I was just about to say that. What happened to ole one arm after the WoS ?

~~~
#15
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 11:43:56
I was just about to say that. What happened to ole one arm after the WoS ?

~~~

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

In Amber and Ashes, Galdar becomes a minotaur emmisary to other races. Sargonnas transports him away from Mina, and their paths diverge after that.

Read the first few chapters of the book to get this in context.
#16
Sysane
Sep 30, 2004 11:48:25 dupe post sorry
#17
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 11:49:15
Maybe this should be in another thread, but could a Minotaur be one of the KoS PrCs? I don't see anything that would disallow them becoming one.

Technically, a gully dwarf could as well. ;)

"Uh, me Bugr, knight of solam...solam...You know, that meat."

The key thing, though, is that any candidate would have to be approved by a knight's council. The Knights of Solamnia are traditionalists, and so their ranks are open primarily to Solamnic humans, although humans from outside of Solamnia who have proven themselves to be honorable and who live up to the ideals of the knighthood would be allowed in too.

I could see half-elves, especially if they hide their heritage, and possibly an elf. This would have to be after the War of the Lance, after Tanis is made an honorary knight and after Laurana's time spent as the Golden General.

I doubt minotaurs would ever be allowed in the knighthood. At best, they may earn a place in the Solamnic auxiliary, or perhaps become an honorary knight, although they would have to be on par with Kaz in order to earn such an honor.
#18
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 11:53:19 I thought that only humans and half-elves were allowed in the Knights of Solmania, I thought it was stated in the DLCS.
#19
Sysane
Sep 30, 2004 11:54:06
I doubt minotaurs would ever be allowed in the knighthood. At best, they may earn a place in the Solamnic auxiliary, or perhaps become an honorary knight, although they would have to be on par with Kaz in order to earn such an honor.

Was Kaz considered a true knight (i.e. did he have levels in a KoS PrC?) or just an honorary?
#20
Dragonhelm
Sep 30, 2004 11:58:01
Was Kaz considered a true knight (i.e. did he have levels in a KoS PrC?) or just an honorary?

I don't know that Kaz was even considered an honorary knight, although he was respected by the knighthood.

Although there are no official stats for Kaz as of yet, I can say that I'm sure he won't have KoS levels. Even Tanis, who was an honorary knight, would not have KoS levels.
#21
true_blue
Sep 30, 2004 12:09:32 Well Tanis can't have levels in the KoS prestige classes. One of their alignment restrictions is that they have to be good. And I know Tanis is neutral, at least I hope he is in the WoTL book. He shouldn't be good because in Legends he is able to use Dalamar's bracelot, when it shocked one of the knights hands.

Stupid nongood people being knights.... Sorry couldnt resist

** edit**

crap seems they added where the bracelet only does damage to Lawful Good characters. Wonder if that was a consious change so that Tanis could still wear it and be good... meh..

** 2nd edit** crap again, checked my old Tales of the Lance book because I wanted to be able to point out where the bracelet used to not allow any good people to use it.. but it only says Chaotic and Lawful Good people couldn't use it. So.. I guess I was wrong in all aspects. Stupid me
#22
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2004 13:43:00 I thought that Tanis was simply an honorary knight.

What about Kharas? Was he an honorary knight and what about the half kender who wanted to be a knight, did that ever happen?
#23
quentingeorge
Oct 01, 2004 17:02:38 Technically, Silvara is an honourary knight in the 5th Age, which shows you don't need the class to be in the knighthood.
#24
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2004 17:26:35 I donte believe that Tanis was a Knight. In my opinion is not good say this. then now we can say Caramon is as well a Knight. A Knight is a Knight. A honorary Knight is not a really Knight. Not all people the fight with honor are Knights. Tanis can be a Legendary Tactican, but not a Knight.
#25
talinthas
Oct 01, 2004 17:55:31 to quote tanis, "The measure makes no such distinction"
Tanis is a KoS in every way but the prc.
#26
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2004 18:04:42 This is a Problem. Then when he is a knight he has not only right but responsibilities. What is when a honoralbe Knight come in a situataion where he must lead the other real knights. The effect is all death. The measure must assigned. Its not good when battlefieldtourists and Hobbyknights are in a Knightorder and have the same rights and responsibilities. And forget not: when you are a knight you can acess at the treasure from the knightorder.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 XIII Sep 29, 2004 23:04:28	I have read and re-read the Knight of Neraka PRC in the DCLS and i was wondering, would you allow minotaur in the knighthood? I have a minotaur player who would like to be a knight of the lily, yet i am not sure if i should allow it. Your thoughts? Thanks!
#2 true_blue Sep 29, 2004 23:26:49	Well they used to allow them when they were Knights of Takhisis. In the back of the Second Generation book they said that fatherless dwarves and minotaurs were able to join. About the only ones not allowed to join were draconians. I dont see why it would change.
#3 Dragonhelm Sep 29, 2004 23:32:57	Galdar was a minotaur Knight of Neraka in the War of Souls series.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2004 23:33:58	Hmmm...Minotaur Dark Knight? Huh. I dunno if that would be allowed. Too bad there's no novel precedent...No wait! There is one! But, that's okay, he's pretty obscure...No wait! He was one of the main characters of the War of Souls. Too bad I can't remember his name...No wait! It's Galder! Sorry about all that...I wasn't trying to be offensive...but, he WAS a min character...
#5 quentingeorge Sep 30, 2004 1:23:55	Yep, Galdar was a prime example of a minotaur Knight of Neraka. I don't think you'd find any outside of the Order of the Lily, however.
#6 Sysane Sep 30, 2004 7:26:07	On a sort of related topic, I had a Minotaur PC who eventually became a minor Dragon Highlord of the Shadow Wing (one guess what type dragons those were) during an old War of The Lance campaign I ran.
#7 XIII Sep 30, 2004 8:01:16	Actually, you're right! Sorry for the stupid question, it was late, i had just finisehd my weekly game, and my player asked me that question, i think my brain was at idle. Anyway, thanks for your answers!
#8 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 9:13:44	I don't think you'd find any outside of the Order of the Lily, however. Oh, I don't know about that. I would think there would be less minotaur Skull Knights and that a minotaur Thorn Knight would be extremely rare, but I could see it.
#9 cam_banks Sep 30, 2004 9:28:26	Oh, I don't know about that. I would think there would be less minotaur Skull Knights and that a minotaur Thorn Knight would be extremely rare, but I could see it. I'm not sure the Order of the Skull or Thorn would open itself up to many non-humans, to be honest. The Skull knights are the ones in charge of brainwashing the squires and recruits, and the Thorn knights are responsible for long-term strategic planning and initiatives, so the more that's in the hands of the humans who make up the overwhelming majority of leadership, the better. I got the impression from Galdar's backstory that his being a minotaur was cause for a lot of mockery and abuse by other knights. You'd have to be crazy to leave the minotaur empire and Sargas to join that kind of fascist Takhisis-worshipping crowd - or an outcast. Cheers, Cam
#10 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 10:04:52	Oh, agreed. Most minotaurs wouldn't join the knighthood, as they would have to take orders from lesser races. Even if they did, the Order of the Lily is more suiting for them, as they're all about physical might. Minotaurs who were outcasts would find the Knights of Takhisis appealing based on their code of honor, or at least they would during the Chaos War. I could see an outcast minotaur cleric of Takhisis becoming a Skull Knight (Gee, I wonder why he's an outcast!). Thorn Knights are the most unlikely of all. I don't think that minotaur Skull and Thorn Knights are impossible, but I do think it to be unlikely.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 11:15:52	Why wouldnt elves and half elves be allowed in the Thorn Knights?
#12 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 11:26:14	Why wouldnt elves and half elves be allowed in the Thorn Knights? They would. The races allowed in the Knights of Takhisis, according to the 2e rules in Second Generation, are as follows: Humans Half-Elves Dark Elves Fatherless Dwarves Minotaurs I would expand this to include half-ogres, personally.
#13 Sysane Sep 30, 2004 11:31:39	Maybe this should be in another thread, but could a Minotaur be one of the KoS PrCs? I don't see anything that would disallow them becoming one.
#14 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 11:35:50	Galdar was a minotaur Knight of Neraka in the War of Souls series. I was just about to say that. What happened to ole one arm after the WoS ? ~~~
#15 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 11:43:56	I was just about to say that. What happened to ole one arm after the WoS ? ~~~ s p o i l e r s p a c e In Amber and Ashes, Galdar becomes a minotaur emmisary to other races. Sargonnas transports him away from Mina, and their paths diverge after that. Read the first few chapters of the book to get this in context.
#16 Sysane Sep 30, 2004 11:48:25	dupe post sorry
#17 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 11:49:15	Maybe this should be in another thread, but could a Minotaur be one of the KoS PrCs? I don't see anything that would disallow them becoming one. Technically, a gully dwarf could as well. ;) "Uh, me Bugr, knight of solam...solam...You know, that meat." The key thing, though, is that any candidate would have to be approved by a knight's council. The Knights of Solamnia are traditionalists, and so their ranks are open primarily to Solamnic humans, although humans from outside of Solamnia who have proven themselves to be honorable and who live up to the ideals of the knighthood would be allowed in too. I could see half-elves, especially if they hide their heritage, and possibly an elf. This would have to be after the War of the Lance, after Tanis is made an honorary knight and after Laurana's time spent as the Golden General. I doubt minotaurs would ever be allowed in the knighthood. At best, they may earn a place in the Solamnic auxiliary, or perhaps become an honorary knight, although they would have to be on par with Kaz in order to earn such an honor.
#18 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 11:53:19	I thought that only humans and half-elves were allowed in the Knights of Solmania, I thought it was stated in the DLCS.
#19 Sysane Sep 30, 2004 11:54:06	I doubt minotaurs would ever be allowed in the knighthood. At best, they may earn a place in the Solamnic auxiliary, or perhaps become an honorary knight, although they would have to be on par with Kaz in order to earn such an honor. Was Kaz considered a true knight (i.e. did he have levels in a KoS PrC?) or just an honorary?
#20 Dragonhelm Sep 30, 2004 11:58:01	Was Kaz considered a true knight (i.e. did he have levels in a KoS PrC?) or just an honorary? I don't know that Kaz was even considered an honorary knight, although he was respected by the knighthood. Although there are no official stats for Kaz as of yet, I can say that I'm sure he won't have KoS levels. Even Tanis, who was an honorary knight, would not have KoS levels.
#21 true_blue Sep 30, 2004 12:09:32	Well Tanis can't have levels in the KoS prestige classes. One of their alignment restrictions is that they have to be good. And I know Tanis is neutral, at least I hope he is in the WoTL book. He shouldn't be good because in Legends he is able to use Dalamar's bracelot, when it shocked one of the knights hands. Stupid nongood people being knights.... Sorry couldnt resist edit crap seems they added where the bracelet only does damage to Lawful Good characters. Wonder if that was a consious change so that Tanis could still wear it and be good... meh.. 2nd edit crap again, checked my old Tales of the Lance book because I wanted to be able to point out where the bracelet used to not allow any good people to use it.. but it only says Chaotic and Lawful Good people couldn't use it. So.. I guess I was wrong in all aspects. Stupid me
#22 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2004 13:43:00	I thought that Tanis was simply an honorary knight. What about Kharas? Was he an honorary knight and what about the half kender who wanted to be a knight, did that ever happen?
#23 quentingeorge Oct 01, 2004 17:02:38	Technically, Silvara is an honourary knight in the 5th Age, which shows you don't need the class to be in the knighthood.
#24 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2004 17:26:35	I donte believe that Tanis was a Knight. In my opinion is not good say this. then now we can say Caramon is as well a Knight. A Knight is a Knight. A honorary Knight is not a really Knight. Not all people the fight with honor are Knights. Tanis can be a Legendary Tactican, but not a Knight.
#25 talinthas Oct 01, 2004 17:55:31	to quote tanis, "The measure makes no such distinction" Tanis is a KoS in every way but the prc.
#26 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2004 18:04:42	This is a Problem. Then when he is a knight he has not only right but responsibilities. What is when a honoralbe Knight come in a situataion where he must lead the other real knights. The effect is all death. The measure must assigned. Its not good when battlefieldtourists and Hobbyknights are in a Knightorder and have the same rights and responsibilities. And forget not: when you are a knight you can acess at the treasure from the knightorder.