Tongues of the Flanaess - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Tongues of the Flanaess

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ivid
Sep 30, 2004 1:32:46 In an older thread, many people complained about how *bad - sounding* some of the names used in WoG were.
What I wonder about is if there were or are sources for Oerthian languages making sense.

There exists a Drow Dictionary out there on the web,
and to compose Elven names or phrases, I think we can mainly rely on Quenya and Sindarin (and Mordorian), the languages Tolkien used for his setting.
- For Dwarven names, too, LotR is a promising source...
(Also, I think many rely on the Warhammer name creator table...:whatsthis)

But is there any vocabular or any grammar given for Aerdian, Seuloise, or the northern tongues?
What language is spoken in Blackmoor?
#2
Mortepierre
Sep 30, 2004 2:38:22 You want a name generator with GH ethnic names?

Only one: the Everchanging Book of Names by Sami Pyörre. Nuff said ;)
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 9:41:25 You've got me hooked Mortepierre. Where do we find this book?
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 9:49:13 Sorry Mortepierre. Sometimes I forget that I'm on the internet and that I have a Google toolbar. I found it. Merci.
#5
cwslyclgh
Sep 30, 2004 11:22:43 I LOVE the ebon, and use it alot in my writing actually.
#6
faraer
Sep 30, 2004 11:35:42 For the elven language of Oerth: Carl Sargent's elves are quite Tolkienesque, but Gary Gygax's are not -- they're more like the fairies of Shakespeare and English folklore -- so importing Tolkien elvish would be inappropriate (as well as contradicted by anything in print, since no official source would use such language).

Dragon published several articles about demihuman names and languages which, despite drawing partly on Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance sources, were officially set in 'Greyhawk Light', the derivative of the World of Greyhawk used as the 'default setting'.

These are dwarven names Gary Gygax has used: Arnie, Brelid, Brondur, Chahlor, Delver, Diggby, Ergwhi, Flemin, Golbi, Grimfast, Hengel, Hoglar, Holgi, Ibli, Issenglas, Ludfast, Mibo, Nulfyke, Obmi, Olgar, Olinstaad, Redmod, Rudd, Stubbin, Teldroll, Trelli, Ukeli, Yubbor, Ziggby. Vaguely Germanic and Norse, but not actual Norse names and soundalikes as Tolkien used.

We have a few bits and pieces of gnomish.

EBoN is a terrific program, but I remember not being convinced by the World of Greyhawk data available for it.
#7
ivid
Oct 03, 2004 6:24:03 I tried the EBON these days and it could indeed convince me - most of the names (even if they only are a line of letters) sounded well, what for a fantasy character is the most important thing.

But there's no elven or dwarven grammar for WoG out there, am I right?
#8
Mortepierre
Oct 03, 2004 6:53:32 Grammar or random list of names? Those are two different things...
#9
ivid
Oct 03, 2004 7:32:22 Did I write it in an confuse manner ?! Sorry!

What I am searching for are both names and grammatical works on the Tongues of the Flanaess - I am curious to know if there is some structural background behind names and phrases used in the books (as far as I know, there are only a few).

In short: Do WoG characters have language detailed like the Tolkienian ones or do are the names and phrases (like the Draconic ones, for example) base on grammatical structure and meaning?
#10
Elendur
Oct 04, 2004 11:08:28 As far as I know, no, there is no underlying grammatical structure to Greyhawk languages.
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 05, 2004 0:16:25 This is not entirely true. Many of Gygax's creations can be traced to "obscure" Earthly languages and cultures. As has been noted in many other places, other of Gygax's creations are anagrams or otherwise made-up.

Other authors have attempted to suggest certain grammar-like structures, e.g. Sean K. Reynolds in The Scarlet Brotherhood, which has an appendix that translates certain words of the Suel-vocca to the Common tongue.
#12
despotrix
Oct 05, 2004 7:15:09 It's also worth pointing out that the language and nomenclature assigned to the Olman people is the unmodified language of Pre-Columbian Aztecs.

Kinda boring and mundane, but easy to research on the 'net.
#13
SteveMND
Oct 05, 2004 8:05:06 "It's also worth pointing out that the language and nomenclature assigned to the Olman people is the unmodified language of Pre-Columbian Aztecs."

Which is called Nahuatl, for those that are interested in doing said research.
#14
ivid
Oct 06, 2004 5:22:06 So then we know:

Olman: Nahuatl

Celene/ Spindrift Elves: Sindarin or Quenya

Drow: Common Drow (TSR)

Anything more to add? ;)
#15
scoti_garbidis
Oct 06, 2004 7:49:00
So then we know:

Olman: Nahuatl

Celene/ Spindrift Elves: Sindarin or Quenya

Drow: Common Drow (TSR)

Anything more to add? ;)

I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found. That would be an awesome addition to my detailing of my campaign and I am sure others would like it also.
#16
ivid
Oct 10, 2004 12:11:17 I got my Drow Dictionary from the Bluetroll - Netbook Page. It's fan stuff based on the FR books, but as far as I know from Spelljammer, the Drow languages on Oerth and on Toril are the same.

R
#17
zombiegleemax
Oct 20, 2004 19:14:51 Sorry but I had to laugh when I saw the name of this post
"Tongues of the Flanaess"
Sounds like a brothel in the Foriegn Quarter of Greyhawk.
Yah - Yah - I know I need therapy!
#18
ivid
Oct 21, 2004 7:17:23 DRAGONSBANE:
Sorry but I had to laugh when I saw the name of this post
"Tongues of the Flanaess"
Sounds like a brothel in the Foriegn Quarter of Greyhawk.
Yah - Yah - I know I need therapy!

....

I must confess that I don't really understand what you consider that funny...
If you search *therapy*, then why don't you try that marvellous rpg called
*sanitarium*.

#19
zombiegleemax
Oct 21, 2004 9:32:25
I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found.

FOR2: Drow of the Underdark

http://store1.yimg.com/I/svgames-store_1816_18159145

http://store.yahoo.com/svgames-store/tsr9326esd.html

I'm sure there are tons more, ofcourse, but that book has quite a few pages devoted to a Drowdic dictionary. (drow to common translator)
#20
ivid
Oct 21, 2004 12:16:56
I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found.

There are few other Drow Dics online, but the last time I visited the pages, they were down.

FR02 and the DrowDic from Bluetroll are most reliable sources I know.
#21
thanael
Oct 22, 2004 8:40:38 Can anyoe post a link to that bluetroll site? I can`t seem to find it on google.

Also about the Dwarven names someone listed: Teldrol !
LOL :D ...the full name was Teldrol Storis (an NPC from WG4) and that`s certainly no real Dwarvish name! But then again Dwarves don`t give their real or full name to everyone.

AD&D 2nd Edition Complete Dwarven HB and FR 9 Dwarves Deep both have some dwarvish in them to plunder..
Also Dragon 245 has lots of info on dwarvish culture.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ivid Sep 30, 2004 1:32:46	In an older thread, many people complained about how bad - sounding some of the names used in WoG were. What I wonder about is if there were or are sources for Oerthian languages making sense. There exists a Drow Dictionary out there on the web, and to compose Elven names or phrases, I think we can mainly rely on Quenya and Sindarin (and Mordorian), the languages Tolkien used for his setting. - For Dwarven names, too, LotR is a promising source... (Also, I think many rely on the Warhammer name creator table...:whatsthis) But is there any vocabular or any grammar given for Aerdian, Seuloise, or the northern tongues? What language is spoken in Blackmoor?
#2 Mortepierre Sep 30, 2004 2:38:22	You want a name generator with GH ethnic names? Only one: the Everchanging Book of Names by Sami Pyörre. Nuff said ;)
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 9:41:25	You've got me hooked Mortepierre. Where do we find this book?
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 9:49:13	Sorry Mortepierre. Sometimes I forget that I'm on the internet and that I have a Google toolbar. I found it. Merci.
#5 cwslyclgh Sep 30, 2004 11:22:43	I LOVE the ebon, and use it alot in my writing actually.
#6 faraer Sep 30, 2004 11:35:42	For the elven language of Oerth: Carl Sargent's elves are quite Tolkienesque, but Gary Gygax's are not -- they're more like the fairies of Shakespeare and English folklore -- so importing Tolkien elvish would be inappropriate (as well as contradicted by anything in print, since no official source would use such language). Dragon published several articles about demihuman names and languages which, despite drawing partly on Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance sources, were officially set in 'Greyhawk Light', the derivative of the World of Greyhawk used as the 'default setting'. These are dwarven names Gary Gygax has used: Arnie, Brelid, Brondur, Chahlor, Delver, Diggby, Ergwhi, Flemin, Golbi, Grimfast, Hengel, Hoglar, Holgi, Ibli, Issenglas, Ludfast, Mibo, Nulfyke, Obmi, Olgar, Olinstaad, Redmod, Rudd, Stubbin, Teldroll, Trelli, Ukeli, Yubbor, Ziggby. Vaguely Germanic and Norse, but not actual Norse names and soundalikes as Tolkien used. We have a few bits and pieces of gnomish. EBoN is a terrific program, but I remember not being convinced by the World of Greyhawk data available for it.
#7 ivid Oct 03, 2004 6:24:03	I tried the EBON these days and it could indeed convince me - most of the names (even if they only are a line of letters) sounded well, what for a fantasy character is the most important thing. But there's no elven or dwarven grammar for WoG out there, am I right?
#8 Mortepierre Oct 03, 2004 6:53:32	Grammar or random list of names? Those are two different things...
#9 ivid Oct 03, 2004 7:32:22	Did I write it in an confuse manner ?! Sorry! What I am searching for are both names and grammatical works on the Tongues of the Flanaess - I am curious to know if there is some structural background behind names and phrases used in the books (as far as I know, there are only a few). In short: Do WoG characters have language detailed like the Tolkienian ones or do are the names and phrases (like the Draconic ones, for example) base on grammatical structure and meaning?
#10 Elendur Oct 04, 2004 11:08:28	As far as I know, no, there is no underlying grammatical structure to Greyhawk languages.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 05, 2004 0:16:25	This is not entirely true. Many of Gygax's creations can be traced to "obscure" Earthly languages and cultures. As has been noted in many other places, other of Gygax's creations are anagrams or otherwise made-up. Other authors have attempted to suggest certain grammar-like structures, e.g. Sean K. Reynolds in The Scarlet Brotherhood, which has an appendix that translates certain words of the Suel-vocca to the Common tongue.
#12 despotrix Oct 05, 2004 7:15:09	It's also worth pointing out that the language and nomenclature assigned to the Olman people is the unmodified language of Pre-Columbian Aztecs. Kinda boring and mundane, but easy to research on the 'net.
#13 SteveMND Oct 05, 2004 8:05:06	"It's also worth pointing out that the language and nomenclature assigned to the Olman people is the unmodified language of Pre-Columbian Aztecs." Which is called Nahuatl, for those that are interested in doing said research.
#14 ivid Oct 06, 2004 5:22:06	So then we know: Olman: Nahuatl Celene/ Spindrift Elves: Sindarin or Quenya Drow: Common Drow (TSR) Anything more to add? ;)
#15 scoti_garbidis Oct 06, 2004 7:49:00	So then we know: Olman: Nahuatl Celene/ Spindrift Elves: Sindarin or Quenya Drow: Common Drow (TSR) Anything more to add? ;) I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found. That would be an awesome addition to my detailing of my campaign and I am sure others would like it also.
#16 ivid Oct 10, 2004 12:11:17	I got my Drow Dictionary from the Bluetroll - Netbook Page. It's fan stuff based on the FR books, but as far as I know from Spelljammer, the Drow languages on Oerth and on Toril are the same. R
#17 zombiegleemax Oct 20, 2004 19:14:51	Sorry but I had to laugh when I saw the name of this post "Tongues of the Flanaess" Sounds like a brothel in the Foriegn Quarter of Greyhawk. Yah - Yah - I know I need therapy!
#18 ivid Oct 21, 2004 7:17:23	DRAGONSBANE: Sorry but I had to laugh when I saw the name of this post "Tongues of the Flanaess" Sounds like a brothel in the Foriegn Quarter of Greyhawk. Yah - Yah - I know I need therapy! .... I must confess that I don't really understand what you consider that funny... If you search therapy, then why don't you try that marvellous rpg called sanitarium.
#19 zombiegleemax Oct 21, 2004 9:32:25	I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found. FOR2: Drow of the Underdark http://store1.yimg.com/I/svgames-store_1816_18159145 http://store.yahoo.com/svgames-store/tsr9326esd.html I'm sure there are tons more, ofcourse, but that book has quite a few pages devoted to a Drowdic dictionary. (drow to common translator)
#20 ivid Oct 21, 2004 12:16:56	I was just wondering in what source book or novel information on the Common Drow Language could be found. There are few other Drow Dics online, but the last time I visited the pages, they were down. FR02 and the DrowDic from Bluetroll are most reliable sources I know.
#21 thanael Oct 22, 2004 8:40:38	Can anyoe post a link to that bluetroll site? I can`t seem to find it on google. Also about the Dwarven names someone listed: Teldrol ! LOL :D ...the full name was Teldrol Storis (an NPC from WG4) and that`s certainly no real Dwarvish name! But then again Dwarves don`t give their real or full name to everyone. AD&D 2nd Edition Complete Dwarven HB and FR 9 Dwarves Deep both have some dwarvish in them to plunder.. Also Dragon 245 has lots of info on dwarvish culture.