LordofIllusions wrote:
Kitiara Has never been portaited as being strong. She is always being described as very dexterious. Very feline like a cat. Very limber, and flexible. Just because she has caolous on her hands and what not doesn't make her strong.
No there are several references to her being as strong as a man. One in particular when she is asked whether she uses a lad's sword rather than a man's. She defiantly answers that she has used a man's sword all her life. (Brothers in Arms).
Could you PM me what the ending was too?
Whoah! What does that say about Ariakas, Tanis, Sturm, Dalamar, Lord Soth...
And on the topic of Linsha, ferratus, how do you compare her own perceptions of her appearance with Ulin's fiancee Lucy wistfully thinking how "beautiful" Linsha is in Dragon's Bluff.
...and you don't seem to be impressed by Linsha's "knightly-ness". Well, she seems to be posted to various important locales, Sanction, third-in-command in Mirage, so the Solamnic leadership must have a different opinion to you on her, especially Liam Ehrling. (Though if I recall you don't think highly of him, either... ;) )
Attraction to Kitiara is ****-erotic?
Whoah! What does that say about Ariakas, Tanis, Sturm, Dalamar, Lord Soth...
I didn't say it was completely homoerotic. There is an idea though that the reason Kitiara is so enticing compared to other women is that she is "a comrade in arms, a fellow warrior, only with breasts so I'm allowed to sleep with her". I'm not the first person in this group to notice that Kitiara seems to be a mannish woman either.
And on the topic of Linsha, ferratus, how do you compare her own perceptions of her appearance with Ulin's fiancee Lucy wistfully thinking how "beautiful" Linsha is in Dragon's Bluff.
Well Linsha thinks of herself being not very beautiful because she is less feminine than other women. Now take Lucy, who is self-concious about her own beauty (as both men and women often are). She is short, a little chubby, freckled, and physically weak. I could readily imagine her looking at Linsha who is a tall and athletic magnificent figure with beautiful skin and amber eyes and being a little jealous. I imagine that Linsha herself is very beautiful, even if that isn't a particularly feminine beauty. After all, it isn't as if the dividing line between masculine and feminine beauty is very clear.
After all, look at Dalamar the Bishonen (japanese for beautiful boy).
...and you don't seem to be impressed by Linsha's "knightly-ness". Well, she seems to be posted to various important locales, Sanction, third-in-command in Mirage, so the Solamnic leadership must have a different opinion to you on her, especially Liam Ehrling. (Though if I recall you don't think highly of him, either... ;) )
I hate them both as Knights. I'm just hoping that the Knights of Solamnia will split into the Knights of Solamnia and the Knights of Sancrist in Doug Niles' upcoming trilogy so I can have the proud, stoic and honourable knights back.
Someone please fetch a copy of the real Solamnic Measure from the library at Storm's Keep. 40 volumes of legal precedents, 1000 years of parlimentary debate, 1000 years of philosophy... all tossed away by the hubris of one man.
Kitiara is a girl whose attractiveness is also very subject to taste. She's athletic, so she's in good shape but frankly is also something of a small woman with short hair and doesn't exactly scream loveliness. She's however very sexual and many men have a fondness for such women.
Linsha is a female Cameron. As some girls like Cameron, ditto men Linsha.
A friend of mine who practices Kung Fu made the mention that powerful personalities, intellects, and physiques would invariably create attractiveness around somebody. I only object really to attractiveness as a character trait that overshadows something else.
The Seven Sisters of FR I love but to be frank their appeal to most fanboys goes little beyond they all look like a buxon Michelle Pfiefer with fairly wanton personalities.
[Someone please fetch a copy of the real Solamnic Measure from the library at Storm's Keep. 40 volumes of legal precedents, 1000 years of parlimentary debate, 1000 years of philosophy... all tossed away by the hubris of one man.]
Here here!
The idea that that the Measure has been thrown away is gross hubris and I personally will let my mage speak for himself from my campaign.
"The young are always eager to throw away the wisdom of their elders. They will say 'We do not need the Measure! We know our own way!'"
"They will let knights judge on their own terms what is acceptable behavior. Drinking and laughter with bawdy jokes will be a welcome change for many. Then will come gambling, wenching, and elaborate feasts. The drunkedness, bastards, and emptying coffers will be confused but shoved under the rug."
"Knights will ignore duties beyond their borders and will turn on each other pointing fingers as the precious few who try to improve will lack a understanding of how and will make more mistakes than boons."
"War will come against one another as those knights will learn to raid other lands before each other's territories as Knights will force themselves on farm maids to steal what they cannot pay for nor feel inclined to. I make a prediction for you Grandmaster. I predict in a hundred years that a young knight will find a copy of the measure and will found a brotherhood based on its ideals as he looks with shame on those who abandoned these ideals."
"Pray his followers last longer than you did after Sturm."
-Valance, Wizard of the Black Robes
And I of course understand that characters are multi-dimensional, but I just think that women in a fantasy setting are more defined by their looks than men.
That may be the case...but you have noticed, haven't you, that all the men tend to be attractive as well, right?
Unless you're J.K. Rowlings...then you make all the evil people unattractive and/or fat.
Well, the outcome of the Niles' trilogy is probably likely shake up the knighthood even more, as it seems the outcome is the transformation of Solamnia into a full Empire.
Hmm...what is the attraction you have to the musty original measure, I wonder?
Well, I can't be sure, but both you and I have no real idea on its contents. The people who do, Liam and Gunthar, both thought it was overwrought and too much, and cut it down.Why is it you think they went too far?
There's a sense of voluminous history behind the Knights of Solamnia and I think their sense of restricted freedom better suits the ideals of civilization (police, FBI agents, etc) than the more common untamed vigilante that is the usual heroes of fantasy.
It's rather like the Prequel Jedi Knighthood vs. the later Knighthood of Luke Skywalker. The original Prequel Knights were certainly flawed individuals but they followed their code and did their best to LIVE UP to its ideals. In today's military the sense of tradition is less stressed but essentially you are supposed to subsume yourself to an ideal.
The "new" Jedi Knighthood has the trappings of the Old Order (lightsabers, but not even robes usually) but none of the sense of history. Just effectively the bland idea of "We do good with the Force." It renders the Jedi honestly to be just 'normal' heroes while the 'magic' fo Obi Wan, Yoda, and even Darth Vader from the movies is lost. The feeling of being heirs to thousand year old wisdom.
You do not change the system for yourself basically and the idea of living up to a standard set forth from the past is intriguing to me. The potentials of conflict that emerge from having to work within a bureaucracy are great but it exists for a REASON.
I believe in the real world that a system of checks and balances on individuals is inherently better than absolute freedom and also that people are better off when they draw some from of strength from a work from the past that inspires them.
You can't replace that with just some stupid pamplet that gives you carte blanch to do what you like....trusting no one will act wrongly with good intentions but no direction.
Well, the outcome of the Niles' trilogy is probably likely shake up the knighthood even more, as it seems the outcome is the transformation of Solamnia into a full Empire.
Yeah, well the roots of this imperialism have commonalities with European imperialism. The idea that it is their mission to dominate the earth in order to save it. Why else would they ignore their duties to the Solamnic homeland in order to try and topple other governments, from Southern Ergoth to the Plains of Dust to Nordmaar?
That is if the Knights of Solamnia are honorable measure bound rather than freebooters