I thought it would be cool if we created a list of things that the scholars and sages of Mystara refer to as the wonders of the world (exact number is up for discussion). If we end up with too big a list, we could vote on it and take the ones with the most. Maybe some of them might have to be created (such as a great temple to an Immortal that is awe-inspiring).
Perhaps we could put together other lists too, such as the greatest natural wonders (not created by mortal or Immortal as far as scholars can tell), and even a list of the greatest acheivments made by mortals. Anybody else out there think this would be fun to do? Let the lists begin! :D
other Ideas:
The Canobarth(sp?) Forest
The Temple of Death in Hule
The pumping system in Slagovitch
Others (man-made) could be:
Floating Ar
The Citadel in Bettelyn
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
by Chimpman Hmmm... do they have to be crafted by human hands? If not then the Arch of Fire in Norwold is surely a wonder. The Glittering Caves in the Northern Reaches could be another.
I think these would fit under the category of "natural wonder". I know I've read about the Glittering Caves somewhere but I can't remember - where is it found again? (especially interested because the PCs IMC are in the Northern Reaches). Good ideas so far, some of which I never thought of!
I think these would fit under the category of "natural wonder". I know I've read about the Glittering Caves somewhere but I can't remember - where is it found again? (especially interested because the PCs IMC are in the Northern Reaches). Good ideas so far, some of which I never thought of!
I'm running purely on memeory here, so I could be off. I thought that the Glittering Caves were where the gnomes once lived in the Norther Reaches. Now the kobolds own them... or maybe I'm just getting old and my Tolkien knowledge is bleeding through into Mystara...
I would guess Thyatis City is likely to contain one or two architectural wonders. :D
I would guess Thyatis City is likely to contain one or two architectural wonders.
I think the Thyatis Coliseum would surely be one of the Human-crafted wonders, as one of the biggest architectural structure of the Mystara.
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Must not forget flying Serraine!
Greatest achievements of immortals? The Hollow World.
Regards,
Eric Anondson
So the City of Stars, Oenkmar, and the Hollow World are unlikely to make many AC 1000 lists, simply because nobody knows they exist. =)
Remember that your Wonders of the World have to be *known* to the person who makes the list! The Great Wall of China, for instance, wasn't one of the actual Wonders of the World (despite common belief) since it was half a world away and the Greek guy who wrote up the Seven Wonders had never heard of it.
So the City of Stars, Oenkmar, and the Hollow World are unlikely to make many AC 1000 lists, simply because nobody knows they exist. =)
You've also got to think when the list was written. Was it written in AC 500, BC 250 or whatever? Because from our own real world example those 7 wonders of the world stand as they were picked back then. They might be referred to no as 7 wonders of the ancient world but more often they're still the 7 wonders of the world. Of course that is why then we start having things like 7 wonders of the natural world, 7 wodners of the undustrial age, 7 wonders of the modern age, etc etc.
So yeah, who wrote this list for Mystara and when was it written
You've also got to think when the list was written. Was it written in AC 500, BC 250 or whatever? Because from our own real world example those 7 wonders of the world stand as they were picked back then. They might be referred to no as 7 wonders of the ancient world but more often they're still the 7 wonders of the world. Of course that is why then we start having things like 7 wonders of the natural world, 7 wodners of the undustrial age, 7 wonders of the modern age, etc etc.
So yeah, who wrote this list for Mystara and when was it written
Although I agree that making a list of wonders written at a certain time, by a certian culture would be interesting, I also think a list of Mystaran Wonders
written from the perspective of the Immortals could be useful.
For those familiar with "Sid Meyer's Civilization", Civ3 in particular, that game lists a number of Wonders, both Great Wonders and Minor Wonders. I'd love to see a list of all such fascilities on Mystara, and perhaps we could even come up with some new ones based on the ones from Civ3 (or the real world) finding out which Mystaran cultures would have them.
Here are a few:
Pyramids (Nithia, Azcans, Oltecs)
Great Library (Glantri?)
Colossus (Milennia)
Hanging Gardens (Alphatia?)
Great Wall (Empire of the Great Khan?)
Lighthouse (erm..Freeport?)
Oracle (Milennia)
Sistine Chapel (hmmm?)
Leonardo's Workshop (Serraine?)
Art of War (Ethengar?)
Shakespear's Theater (I'm thinking Emilio the Great might build this in Karameikos)
Magellans Journey (Haldemaar's Journey?)
Smith's Trading Company (Minrothad?)
More wonders can be found at:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3wonders.shtml
Havard
Hmmm...I guess its been a while since I played Civ3. I'll
So yeah, who wrote this list for Mystara and when was it written?
Good point! I think it possible that there could be a few lists that were created throught history if there were enough wonders known to warrant creating a list. But I'd like to see one that that was done in recent history, at least within the last half century.
As for who wrote it, someone from a cultured society with a high degree of philosophy and art, but also well travelled and connected to various other peoples through correspondence. With that frame of mind I'd suggest that a member (or ex-member) of Darokin's DDC would fit the bill quite well. Other suggestions are welcome too. Once we decide on place of origin we could have an actual NPC created. Thinking of past lists that may have existed, it could be cool to have our modern list maker "discover" the ancient list (from another nation - in Davania?) and become inspired, by all that he has seen and heard of, to search out and document his own list.
Sistine Chapel (hmmm?)
...
Shakespear's Theater (I'm thinking Emilio the Great might build this in Karameikos)
I'll put an equivalent of the Sistine Chapel in Darokin. As for the theatre - this one could also be located in Ierendi.
As for who wrote it - wouldn't Joshuan be delighted for such a job? ;)
Howzabout this:
The Twelve Ancient Wonders of the Known World
The Twelve Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Twelve Lost Wonders of the Known World
The Twelve Natural Wonders of the Known World
"Known World" in this case meaning everything that a knowledgeable sage from Thyatis would have a fairly good chance of hearing about.
"Ancient Wonders" would be "man-made wonders" as known to a sage of Alphatia, ca. 500 BC.
"Modern Wonders" would be "man-made wonders" as known to a sage of Thyatis ca. 1000 AC, and include the few extant wonders from 500 BC as well as everything built since then... ancient items that are not as wondrous as more modern items fall to an "honorable mention" list.
"Lost Wonders" are any man-made or natural "wonders" that have been destroyed or "lost," such as the great bronze Colossus dedicated to Proteus that once strode the entrance to the port of the city of King Milen, prior to the Beastmen Wars and his flight to Davania. When King Milen insulted Proteus during the journey, the Colossus came to life and strode off into the Sea of Dread, just as the Beastmen were invading the city and attacking the remnants of the populace who did not follow King Milen. The Colossus has never been seen since...
Some legends state that the Colossus made an obscene gesture to the pleading, horrified residents of the city just before it left...
"Natural Wonders" would be, of course, anything not man-made, such as the Glittering Caves of the Gnomes in the Northern Realms, the Arch of Fire in Norwold (known even to the ancients, as attested to in module M5), the Great Sargasso Sea of the Sea of Dread, the Great Escarpment of the Isle of Dawn, the Plains of Fire in Sind, and so forth. The Floating Islands of Ar are, of course, a man-made wonder... as are, presumably, the strange massive stone pyramids that are found from time to time in the Alasiyan Desert, whereof much is whispered and little known, save perhaps a blasphemous connection to the Nithians of the northern highlands of the Sultanate...
by Lost Woodrake
As for who wrote it - wouldn't Joshuan be delighted for such a job?
That's the first one that went through my my mind too! But, I figured he should share some fame with other people ;) . I'd see him as being someone who could make the list of Wonders of the World alot more well known through his publications though.
The list so far with comments:
Wonders of the World
- Great School of Magic (I don't imagine many would argue this one)
- The Canolbarth Forest (How well known is it's origin? Could be quite a shock to many people to find that out; could make for an interesting political dynamic)
- The Temple of Death in Hule (even more of an exotic element to it after the invasion of Sind and Darokin)
- The pumping system in Slagovitch (is this the same as The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators?)
- Floating Ar
- The Citadel in Bettelyn (don't know much about this; anybody want to post a description?)
- City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel; this one isn't likely to be known about on the surface)
- Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep; this one is also not likely known but might be noted as a legend)
- Thyatis Coliseum (this surely one of the larger structures made but I'm not sure if it is one of the most magnificant, but a possibility)
- The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor (this is also unknown, at least before the WotI at the very least, and is likely to stay unknown)
- Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat (where is this? Sure sounds magnificant)
- Flying Serraine (I think this should definately be one; just think of a commoner's imagination work when he first hears of a flying city!)
- Coral Palace (this is another good choice I think)
Great list guys! I like Havard's suggestion of Minor Wonders. They would include all the published items that "didn't make the cut" as a Great Wonder and could also allow us to create our own wonders! Soon we'll go through the process of selecting the final 7(?).
Mystaros beat me with his post, but I like the ideas. His thoughts on having four different lists sounds good to me! (I'd still like to see the modern list done by a DDC person, but I'll go with whatever
)- The pumping system in Slagovitch (is this the same as The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators?)
Yup.
- Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat (where is this? Sure sounds magnificant)
You can find it in the Orc's Head Peninsula online accessory.
More additions to the list.
The Rockhome ventilation system
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
The city of Seashield and the villages of the kingdom of Aquas.
Natural wonders to add might be:
The Valley of the Dawn on the Isle of Dawn
World Mountain in Ethengar
Regards,
Eric Anondson
Remember that your Wonders of the World have to be *known* to the person who makes the list! The Great Wall of China, for instance, wasn't one of the actual Wonders of the World (despite common belief) since it was half a world away and the Greek guy who wrote up the Seven Wonders had never heard of it.
However, the Great Darokin Wall (begun in 1010 AC and completed in 1012 or 13ish), should qualify. It stretches along most of the border with the Broken Lands.
The Alphatian Maelstrome
- The Citadel in Bettelyn (don't know much about this; anybody want to post a description?)
The Citadel is basically a large mountain sized city built and maintained by Alphatian earth mages. It gets only a blurb in canon sources (Dawn of the Empires), but the Mystaran community (myself included... shameless plug) has expanded on this.
Citadel
Heh. Even listed as one of the world wonders by the MA ;)
The Citadel is basically a large mountain sized city built and maintained by Alphatian earth mages. It gets only a blurb in canon sources (Dawn of the Empires), but the Mystaran community (myself included... shameless plug) has expanded on this.
Citadel
That's sweet- I never saw that map of Citadel before. I had a series of stories planned out at one point to write about a group of Alphatian mercenaries (based in Blackheart), and one of their adventures was going to take them into Citadel, going on a bounty hunt for criminals hiding in the older parts of the city. At one point, they were going to run into a group of Thyatian spies who had set up their base of operations in a very old and abandoned part of the city.
I love Citadel- it just has so much potential as a setting without even needing to leave the city and explore further abroad.
And thanks for the additions to the list everyone. I was thinking, would the Rainbow Bridge qualify as one of the Lost Wonders? (I can't remember the details of it).
It's a huge mechanical man (by huge we are talking several thousand feet I think - I'm going on memory here and it's years since I looked at the module). It is populated and run (and was built) by a tribe of gnomes who are co-operating with a showman who is touring the known world with it.
Primarily it is just there to wonder at, but it can also be used for major earthworks. Attacking the mid-level guy running it is not a huge idea - he is not powerful, but is friends with lots of rules who trust him with the Earthshaker, but will be really upset at the idea of anyone else having that sort of power near them. (Note it is taller than just about any other sentient-made structure in the world, yet walks etc - as a weapon its power would be nearly incalcuable.)
As a side note the module also gives the stats for a gnomish relic and what can be made with it - if you need to give your players a limited was of time travelling they can ask very very nicely (and probably still be told 'no')!
A few comments:
About wall building: I seem to recall that on the map of Alphatia in the DotE boxed set there is a huge wall running the entire length of the border between Arogansa and some other kingdom. So that takes the place of the Darokin Wall in the book of records I would say.
Would Alphatia's flying ships (the really big ones like the love cruise one (I forget its name)) qualify as man-made wonders?
Although few people survive to see it up close, the maelstrom in the ocean off the coast of Norworld would also be a natural wonder in my opinion.
Also, thinking of the Ierendi tourist industri, I would imagine that not only will the Ierendi people be trying to get as many of "their wonders" on the official list as possible. Anything from the legendary Elephant Graveyard and bones of other (dead) gargantuan monsters to magical lighthouses that can be seen all the way to the mainland etc. etc. A few industrious Ierendians might even set up tour operations in other nations to reap the profits of such enterprises. ("Come see the maelstrom up close in Halfdan's Hot Air Balloon! Completely safe at 200 feet").
And finally, speaking of the "Lost Wonders" of the Known World, I got to thinking about treasure hunting expeditions and all the mad adventures such might lead to. And I got to thinking about Atlantis. In the old "CM1 - Test of the Warlords" the Crones of Crystykk reveal to the PC's that the true name of the Empire of Alphatia is actually Atlantis!! This is the only reference, AFAIK, to the empire's true name ever published and I never really took much notice of it - until more than 15 years later WotC lets Alphatia sink beneath the waves in WotI! Now, if this was planned all along, I am in complete awe of the game designers' ability to foreshadow events...
:-) Jesper
I am pretty certain that the CM1-WotI link is pure happenstance. What might be worth doing though is ploughing through our copies of M1 and seeing what references have been given there. I think the link is that Atlantis has already sunk beneath the waves - this being when it arrived in Mystara... Very nice catch though, I really must go and re-read soem of my old modules
Interestingly, M1 allows the characters to go "under the sea" to visit Old Alphatia in outer space.
By the way, IMC I have relocated Old Alphatia into Mystara's Solar system. I simply ruled that instead of filling the whole solar system with air, they just expanded the atmosphere to contain the moons. The map from "into the maelstrom isn't that big anyway. Plus, it becomes a shorter trip for the Alphatians to make through the Void.
Håvard
That's sweet- I never saw that map of Citadel before. I had a series of stories planned out at one point to write about a group of Alphatian mercenaries (based in Blackheart), and one of their adventures was going to take them into Citadel, going on a bounty hunt for criminals hiding in the older parts of the city. At one point, they were going to run into a group of Thyatian spies who had set up their base of operations in a very old and abandoned part of the city.
I love Citadel- it just has so much potential as a setting without even needing to leave the city and explore further abroad.
Thanks. Man we must have been dominated by the same kopru or something because I've had those very same thoughts. I agree that Citadel could be used as a campaign setting on its own and have always wanted to go back and describe it in more detail. Just so many possibilities (and so little time).
Thanks. Man we must have been dominated by the same kopru or something because I've had those very same thoughts. I agree that Citadel could be used as a campaign setting on its own and have always wanted to go back and describe it in more detail. Just so many possibilities (and so little time).
Just let me second Cthulhudrew and say that the map of the Citadel is great! I hadn't seen it before either and it really helped visualize the thing
Håvard
About wall building: I seem to recall that on the map of Alphatia in the DotE boxed set there is a huge wall running the entire length of the border between Arogansa and some other kingdom. So that takes the place of the Darokin Wall in the book of records I would say.
Good point- I'd forgotten about the Randel Wall.
This and your next question raise some interesting questions, though:
Would Alphatia's flying ships (the really big ones like the love cruise one (I forget its name)) qualify as man-made wonders?
In addition to the Natural and Man-Made wonders, should Mystara also have a "Magical Wonders" category? Reflecting constructions/things that are built with magic, rather than plain old fashioned human ingenuity and elbow grease? A magical wall is impressive, yes, but in a different way than one built with manpower and mortar.
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
Regards,
Eric Anondson
The Athenos Canal that runs 25 miles through the Malpheggi Swamp - a Known World Panama Canal!
:-) Jesper
I've gone down through the posts and placed everything in one of the following categories (thanks Mystaros) but please make suggestions if something is better off in a different category. And feel free to continue to add.
The Twelve Ancient Wonders of the Known World
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
(now checking the Hollow World suppliments)
The Twelve Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Temple of Death in Hule
The Citadel in Bettelyn
Thyatis Coliseum
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Serraine the Flying City
Coral Palace of Ierendi
Rockhome ventilation system
Seashield
The Earthshaker
Randel Wall of Alphatia
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
The Athenos Canal
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
(to be reduced)
The Twelve Lost Wonders of the Known World
The Colossus of Protius
(any more?)
The Twelve Natural Wonders of the Known World
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
The Valley of the Dawn
World Mountain of Ethengar
The Alphatian Maelstrome
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
Elephant Graveyard
Savage Coast Haze
Atruaghin Plateau
The Twelve Magical Wonders of the Known World
Floating Ar
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise (name please?)
The Princess Ark
The Rainbow Bridge
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
(we'll use this for things that don't make one of the lists)
Also, a possible natural wonder, but maybe magical as well... How about the Haze that perpetually hangs over the Savage Coast?
Another natural wonder, how about the 200 foot tall giant conch shell that was dug up out of the Sea of Dread and converted into the Great Prophet's palace, named Azizi Berungi, in the Yavdlom city of Tanakumba.
Many of the ancient wonders may have to be dug out of the Hollow World sources...
Regards,
Eric Anondson
Thothia's Temple of Dawn could also make the Ancient list. Anyone know how old the Earthshaker is? If it's old enough it could fit in the Ancient list as well.
The Star of Vanya might fit in there somewhere, although I don't know how well known it would be.
You mentioned the Rainbow Bridge several posts ago... I think that would fit in the Magic list (the elves know of it, and it's still in existance, so it's not lost).
Might be able to categorize Earthshaker and Serraine as "magical wonders".
I tend to think that creations by gnomes have more mechanical elements than magical ones even though they mix them. The "Top Ballista" phase "fantasy physics" sticks in my memory
. But, if any others agree they should be magical wonders, I'll gladly change it.Also, a possible natural wonder, but maybe magical as well... How about the Haze that perpetually hangs over the Savage Coast?
Cool! I didn't realize there was so much about Mystara I've never read about before. I'll put it under natural until I hear otherwise.
Another natural wonder, how about the 200 foot tall giant conch shell that was dug up out of the Sea of Dread and converted into the Great Prophet's palace, named Azizi Berungi, in the Yavdlom city of Tanakumba.
Can't believe we all forgot that one!
Many of the ancient wonders may have to be dug out of the Hollow World sources...
Excelent idea...
Supposedly the Atraughin Plateau was raised up from the land (by immortal hands). That could fit in as either a natural or magical wonder.
Ummm.. I guess natural for now.
Thothia's Temple of Dawn could also make the Ancient list. Anyone know how old the Earthshaker is? If it's old enough it could fit in the Ancient list as well.
Temple, done. Earthshaker, anybody?
You mentioned the Rainbow Bridge several posts ago... I think that would fit in the Magic list (the elves know of it, and it's still in existance, so it's not lost).
Forgot to look at my own posts! Thanks for the reminder.
I tend to think that creations by gnomes have more mechanical elements than magical ones even though they mix them.
Well, Serraine is actually, as I'm remembering, a Blackmoor Device that was altered by the gnomes.
It is a personal thing, but Blackmoor Devices just cry out to be categorized as "magical" by contemporary sages. Indeed, the tech of most Blackmoor devices functions in ways that affect magic on Mystara. It is the nature of Mystara itself, consider the "radiance" of the Nucleus of the Spheres, for instance.
Regards,
Eric Anondson
How about the mists around the Minrothad islands?
IMO there should be some pyramids in the Nithian part of Ylaruam that would qualify as Ancient Wonders even though the Gaz does not name and describe them.
And speaking of Ylaruam, the fabled City of Brass mentioned in Gaz 2 - does anyone recall whether it is actually somewhere in the desert or is it on the Elemental Plane of Fire?
I agree that since Seraine is based on Blackmoore it should be 'magical'.
Also, the Elephant Graveyard that I mentioned in an earlier post is not a canon Wonder of the Known World - just an idea from an old Dungeon adventure called - you guessed it - The Elephants' Graveyard. If we still want to include it, we are going to have to find somewhere where elephants live naturally in the wild in the KW. In the module, the graveyard is in the heart of a disease infested jungle. Perhaps the Hinterlands?
Natural wonders: When I lost my harddisc a few weeks back I also lost my edition of Western Trail Maps in .pdf but I seem to recall a number of mountain ranges and peaks being named. Some of the tallest peaks of the Known World should be Natural Wonders just like Mt. Everast is it in ours.
Furthermore, I just realised that the City of the Dragons in the Wyrmsteeth Mtns. of Norworld or whatever they are called (don't have a map near me) should be somewhere on one of the lists. Perhaps the secret, undiscovered one?
And speaking of undiscovered: what about the Valley of the Huutaka, the Fey Realm of the Wee People (pre-WotI) and the Palace of the Silver Princess / Haven in Karameikos? (aren't too sure they qualify as wonders but they sure are mysterious places).
On the Minor Natural Wonder might be the Red River and the Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia - both in Glantri.
This is really a great thread!!
:-) Jesper
On the Vault there is this great list of Wormholes, portals and gates:
http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/gtprtwrm.html
Any one of them would qualify as a Magical (Known or Secret) Wonder.
:-) Jesper
The Fire Ships of the Honor Island Mages of Ierendi
:-) Jesper
The Twelve Ancient Wonders of the Known World
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
(now checking the Hollow World suppliments)
The Twelve Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Temple of Death in Hule
The Citadel in Bettelyn
Thyatis Coliseum
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Coral Palace of Ierendi
Rockhome ventilation system
Seashield
The Earthshaker
Randel Wall of Alphatia
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
The Athenos Canal
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
Glanti's School of Magic
City of the Dragons
(to be reduced)
The Twelve Lost Wonders of the Known World
The Colossus of Protius
(any more?)
The Twelve Natural Wonders of the Known World
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
The Valley of the Dawn
World Mountain of Ethengar
The Alphatian Maelstrome
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
Elephant Graveyard
Savage Coast Haze
Atruaghin Plateau
Red River
Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia
The Twelve Magical Wonders of the Known World
Floating Ar
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise (name please?)
The Princess Ark
The Rainbow Bridge
Serraine the Flying City
Canolbarth Forest
The Fire Ships
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
(we'll use this for things that don't make one of the lists)
Serraine - Thanks for the reminder that Serraine has Blackmoor technology in it. I fully agree with that constituting it as magical.
Canolbarth Forest - is it's origin known by humans (just checking).
mysterious places - such as Haven and the Valley of the Huutaka. What should we do with these; place them in unknown or maybe the notables?
Minrothad's mists - is this (by itself, without the magical effects of the Minrothad prince's activities) notable enough?
City of Brass - Sure sounds impressive! Anybody know about it?
Wormholes & Portals - Perhaps we'll include the largest that is the most known.
The Fire Ships - Maybe; any other opinions?
Finally, Feel free to create your own wonders for this list (as per Havard's post using ideas from Civ3, which I happen to have a game on the go). I'd bet if we come up with some good ones (I'm sure we will) they'll get put into the Vaults!
I imagine anything from mines of diamonds and precious metals to lost underground cities, huge underground rivers etc. ? I mean think of "King Salomon's Mines", "Quatermaine and the City of Gold" and "Indiana Jones" for inspiration. Perhaps the dwarven wanderers might be an adventuring party's only hope of ever seeing these fantastic locations...? :D
:-) Jesper
You guys just gave me another idea: "The Twelve Wonders of the Hollow World". Actually, that raises another question; what do the inhabitants of the Hollow World call their world?
They would probably just call it the "world" or the "new world" depending upon how their memories were left when they were transfered here. Some cultures were altered to think that they had always lived under the red sun, while others were allowed to remember the outer world.
Relating back to our lists... it is possible that some HW cultures might share the Ancient and Lost world wonders lists in common with their outer world counterparts. Interesting...
The Seven Ancient Wonders of the Known World
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
Spiral Cities of the Serpent Peninsula (?)
The Sump of Alfheim (?)
(almost half way there)
The Seven Modern Wonders of the Known World
Thyatis Coliseum
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Coral Palace of Ierendi
Seashield (? magical)
Randel Wall of Alphatia
The Athenos Canal
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
The Seven Lost Wonders of the Known World
The Colossus of Protius
The Earthshaker (?)
Adakkian World-Tower
(down to four more!)
The Seven Natural Wonders of the Known World
World Mountain of Ethengar (pre-WotI)
Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia (pre-WotI)
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
The Valley of the Dawn
Savage Coast Haze
Atruaghin Plateau
Haven
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
The Alphatian Maelstrome (post-WotI)
The Seven Magical Wonders of the Known World
Floating Ar
The Princess Ark
The Rainbow Bridge
Serraine the Flying City
Canolbarth Forest
The Temple of Death in Hule
Glanti's School of Magic
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
The Fire Ships
City of Brass
The Citadel in Bettelyn
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise (name please?)
Rockhome Ventilation System
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
Red River
Elephant Graveyard
City of the Dragons (ancient?)
We're almost done everyone. Just a few more adjustments and additions! Thanks for all the great contributions!
I've always liked this idea, and this thread made me recall it. I think it would fit in perfectly on the Lost list. I did a search on the vaults, but no luck. Does anybody remember this, or have a clue as to where to find it?
Ok, hopefully someone can help me here. It was a long time ago, on the MML when somebody posted the idea for an ancient tower of Taymora (like the Tower of Babylon). Anyone standing atop the tower had the ability to scry on places across the world, and IIRC the tower could send armies directly to the place scried.
I've always liked this idea, and this thread made me recall it. I think it would fit in perfectly on the Lost list. I did a search on the vaults, but no luck. Does anybody remember this, or have a clue as to where to find it?
Sounds cool chimpman. I even tried a search on the MML but couldn't find it. Bummer...
. Hopefully someone remembers."Lost Wonders" are any man-made or natural "wonders" that have been destroyed or "lost," such as the great bronze Colossus dedicated to Proteus that once strode the entrance to the port of the city of King Milen, prior to the Beastmen Wars and his flight to Davania. When King Milen insulted Proteus during the journey, the Colossus came to life and strode off into the Sea of Dread, just as the Beastmen were invading the city and attacking the remnants of the populace who did not follow King Milen. The Colossus has never been seen since...
Some legends state that the Colossus made an obscene gesture to the pleading, horrified residents of the city just before it left...
This actually reminds me of the Isle of Dread...wasn't there the remains (only the feet left, I believe) of a huge statute in the temple on the plateau in the middle of the island? I haven't read the reprint of the adventure in the magazines, but was there any mention of this?
Sounds cool chimpman. I even tried a search on the MML but couldn't find it. Bummer...
Yay! I found it! Thanks Hugin. I was spending all of my time searching the Vaults, and I completely forgot that I could search the MML as well. Check it out here:
[html]http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0212A&L=mystara-l&P=R2956[/html]
The idea was originally put forth by Francisco V Navarro, but as far as I can tell was never fleshed out in any real depth. Still, the perfect kind of thing for a Lost Wonder. Since it is lost after all, we hardly need to detail it extensively.
This actually reminds me of the Isle of Dread...wasn't there the remains (only the feet left, I believe) of a huge statute in the temple on the plateau in the middle of the island? I haven't read the reprint of the adventure in the magazines, but was there any mention of this?
I checked it out and figured in would have been only about 100-130 feet tall; impressive but not wonderous if you know what I mean. There's also the fact that sages are not likely to know about it. Good recall though.
And a lost/magical one, (perhaps) The Cave of Wonders from Gaz 2:
:-) Jesper
Just read the 1018 AC Almanac on Atruaghin clans at the Vault. The waterfalls above the Angry Waters on the plateau must surely be a natural wonder!
I like the idea. However, to include it in the list we have to bump another off, so let the votes begin. Which one do we take off?
And a lost/magical one, (perhaps) The Cave of Wonders from Gaz 2
There's alot cool stuff in there that I've forgotten about (haven't read it in a long time) but couldn't find the Cave of Wonders. Whereabouts in there is it? I'm going to look at it some though to see if any of these other things might quaify for a wonder.
Your mentioning Darokin made me think of the Darokin-Atraughin plateau elevator. Was this destroyed at some point (in one of the PWAs or MAs)? If so this could fit into the Lost Wonder list.
Consider it on the list! (once we discover it's current condition and where to place it
) Worst case senario it'll end up on the minor list, but again, let the voices be heard!I like the idea. However, to include it in the list we have to bump another off, so let the votes begin. Which one do we take off?
Why? Can there only be a specific number of wonders?There's alot cool stuff in there that I've forgotten about (haven't read it in a long time) but couldn't find the Cave of Wonders. Whereabouts in there is it?
Hmm... I am sure I read about it somewhere in the adventures section but suddenly I am afraid that it might just be 1001 Nights folklore or something from the Al-Quadim setting :embarrass
However, if we can make stuff up for the list I think a Cave of Wonders would be magical and mysterious! :D
:-) Jesper
Why? Can there only be a specific number of wonders?
I only said that because we had them set at the "7" Wonders, but we could easily increase the number if we want. My only hesitation at doing so is that it is nice to have the same number in each category (i.e. 7 modern wonders, 7 magical wonders, 7 lost wonders, etc.) and we don't even have 7 in some of them yet. Also, by keeping the number somewhat small, it makes those on the list that much more presdigeous. There's also the notable "minor wonders" list that catches the overflow. But like I said, if people would like a larger number just let be known and we can change it.
Hmm... I am sure I read about it somewhere in the adventures section but suddenly I am afraid that it might just be 1001 Nights folklore or something from the Al-Quadim setting.
However, if we can make stuff up for the list I think a Cave of Wonders would be magical and mysterious!
*lol* I know exactly how you feel! And by all means, do a write-up for it. I don't recall anybody expressing a desire to keep the lists stictly to published canon so go for it (I think there's already fun-created ones on the lists; I've never read about the Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia that I can recall, for example).
(I think there's already fun-created ones on the lists; I've never read about the Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia that I can recall, for example).
Actually, the Red River and the Blue Pinewoods in Glantri were my additions to the list and they are canon:
Gaz 3, page 6 and 7:
"The rocks in the Kurish Massif gives this river the colour of blood, until it joins with the Vesubia".
"The rest of the forests remain in the mountains. The Wendarian Ranges are well known for their large numbers of blue pines growing on the lower slopes. Many woodcutters prosper here".
:-) Jesper
Your mentioning Darokin made me think of the Darokin-Atraughin plateau elevator. Was this destroyed at some point (in one of the PWAs or MAs)? If so this could fit into the Lost Wonder list.
Finally found some time to check this out; the World Elevator was "brought up to the plateau's top and shut down" by Alphatian wizards posing as spirits. So it's not destroyed (as I had thought too).
Actually, the Red River and the Blue Pinewoods in Glantri were my additions to the list and they are canon
I think I have a lot of re-reading to do :whatsthis ; I've been noticing how much I've forgotten/missed lately. I have to hand to you though, good eye! Btw, I didn't mean to type "fun-created", it was supposed to be "fan-created".
I'm still looking forward to a write-up on the Cave of Wonders.PS: I'm looking at adjusting the lists to reflect our recent discussions right now!
The Seven Ancient Wonders of the Known World
City of the Dragons
Spiral Cities of the Serpent Peninsula
The Sump of Alfheim
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
(three to go)
The Seven Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Athenos Canal
Coral Palace of Ierendi
Randel Wall of Alphatia
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Thyatis Coliseum
World Elevator
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
The Seven Lost Wonders of the Known World
Adakkian World-Tower
The Colossus of Protius
The Earthshaker
(down to four more!)
The Seven Natural Wonders of the Known World
Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia (pre-WotI)
World Mountain of Ethengar (pre-WotI)
Angry Waters
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
Atruaghin Plateau
Haven
Valley of the Dawn
The Alphatian Maelstrome (post-WotI)
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
The Seven Magical Wonders of the Known World
Canolbarth Forest
Floating Ar
Glanti's School of Magic
The Princess Ark
Serraine the Flying City
Seashield
The Temple of Death in Hule
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
The Citadel in Bettelyn
City of Brass
Elephant Graveyard
The Fire Ships
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise (name please?)
The Rainbow Bridge
Red River
Rockhome Ventilation System
Savage Coast Haze
Temple Statue on Taboo Island (lost)
Changes:
City of Dragons: Placed on the ancient list. I'm assuming it's ancient since I couldn't find anything on it so if this is incorrect please let me know.
Angry Waters: Added to natural list.
Rainbow Bridge: Removed from natural list on the premise that it's another plane (at least according to Gaz 7) but mentioned on the notable list due to it's important role in the migrations of the elves.
Sea Shield: Put on the magical list.
Temple Statue on Taboo Island: Mentioned on the minor list as a lost wonder.
World Elevator: Placed on the modern list.
Savage Coast Haze: placed on minor list.
Still need some for the ancient and lost lists. I think the others may be final now, but then again, you guys keep surprising me! :D
And that World Elevator - is that "just" the platform built next to the Atruaghin Plateau that can transport a few wagons at a time? Somehow that isn't as impressive as the Randal Wall or the Athenos Canal I feel.
I'd like to hear from people who have interesting ideas about the major temples to immortals across the Known World and where they are located. Playing Baldurs Gate II, I always loved going to Athkatla's temple district and see the magnificent temples there. I'd love to see temples like that described for Mystara.
How would Mystarans honour their Immortals? What sort of things would they adorn the inners of the temples with? And the outside? Are there magical effects? Lights? Songs?
:-) Jesper
Just read on the net about the temple of Artemis at Ephesus, which was one of the seven wonders of antiquity, and I sort of miss some temples on our list - besides Oenkmar and the City of Stars.
:D I feel the some way (it was reading about the temple of Artemis that got me thinking about this whole subject in the begining; see the first post). If someone does a write-up for such a temple I'd love to put it in the list.
And that World Elevator - is that "just" the platform built next to the Atruaghin Plateau that can transport a few wagons at a time? Somehow that isn't as impressive as the Randal Wall or the Athenos Canal I feel.
It probably isn't, but it is a near vertical lift of half a mile without any magical aid. Plus it plays a significant role in the relations of two very different cultures and it is unique. However, if someone where to, say, come up with a temple who's glory deserves to be immortalized (sorry for joke)... ;)
How would Mystarans honour their Immortals? What sort of things would they adorn the inners of the temples with? And the outside? Are there magical effects? Lights? Songs?
This is something I've wondered about myself many times. Maybe we start a thread discussing and developing styles and outlooks of Mystara's temples. (The cog-wheels in my head are a churning).
Aladin's Enchanted Cave: page 61
The City of Brass: page 63
The Valley of Diamonds: page 61
:-) Jesper
Finally had time to rummage through Gaz 2:
Neat stuff in there, eh.Aladin's Enchanted Cave: page 61
Propose it goes onto minor list.The City of Brass: page 63
Already on the minor list.The Valley of Diamonds: page 61
I propose this replaces the blue pinewoods on the natural wonder list. I just imagine this sight would be really breath-taking! I'll make it your call.
The Seven Ancient Wonders of the Known World
Adakkian World-Tower
City of the Dragons
The Colossus of Protius
The Earthshaker
Spiral Cities of the Serpent Peninsula
The Sump of Alfheim
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
The Seven Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Athenos Canal
Coral Palace of Ierendi
Randel Wall of Alphatia
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Thyatis Coliseum
World Elevator
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
The Seven Natural Wonders of the Known World
The Valley of Diamonds (pre-WotI)
World Mountain of Ethengar (pre-WotI)
Angry Waters
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
Atruaghin Plateau
Haven
Valley of the Dawn
The Alphatian Maelstrome (post-WotI)
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
The Seven Magical Wonders of the Known World
Canolbarth Forest
Floating Ar
Glanti's School of Magic
The Princess Ark
Serraine the Flying City
Seashield
The Temple of Death in Hule
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
The Citadel in Bettelyn
Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia
City of Brass
The Fire Ships of Ierendi
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise
The Rainbow Bridge
Red River
Rockhome Ventilation System
Savage Coast Haze
Temple Statue on Taboo Island (lost)
In 'The Estates'
"High Temple of Vanya : This is the greatest temple of Thyatis, with a tower-spire stretching ten amazing stories into the sky, and a huge hall that can seat 10,000...."
I always imagined that this was a magnificent structure in Thyatis City. And it seems like I once read an expanded, very impressive description of the same temple on a website someone had written covering their in-depth coverage of Thyatis, but I am unable to find it.
James Ruhland's description of a similar impressive temple from the MML follows (it's located in teh Zendrolium, or military district/headquarters of Thyatis City):
"Hagia Nika
This temple, completed in 1013, is perhaps even more magnificent than
the famous High Temple of Vanya in the Estates. Though built on a somewhat
smaller scale, its soaring domes and archways, clearly visible from Vanya's
Girdle, is a wonder to behold. Its interior walls feature frescos and
mosaics depicting Vanya and her most famous followers triumphing against
their enemies. Marble pillars support the arches leading up to the central
dome that towers above the temple floor."
I still believe that the first Temple of Vanya would be the more impressive.
I also wouldn't want to forget the 'sump and weir' of Alfheim, though I don't know if it would even exist as more than a 'pit' in the ground now that its Aengmor.
Lastly, what about Dengar (a whole city half above and more than half below a mountain?) -- not sure about that one. But what about Makrast, or at least the huge mountainous cliff that the city abuts (from DoI)?
Thanks.
Adakkian World-Tower
City of the Dragons
The Colossus of Protius
The Earthshaker
Spiral Cities of the Serpent Peninsula
The Sump of Alfheim
Thothia's Temple of Dawn
The Seven Modern Wonders of the Known World
The Athenos Canal
Coral Palace of Ierendi
High Temple of Vanya
Randel Wall of Alphatia
The Slagovich hydrolic locks and elevators
Thyatis Coliseum
Yavdom's Azizi Berungi
The Seven Natural Wonders of the Known World
The Valley of Diamonds (pre-WotI)
World Mountain of Ethengar (pre-WotI)
Angry Waters
The Arch of Fire in Norwold
Atruaghin Plateau
Haven
Valley of the Dawn
The Alphatian Maelstrome (post-WotI)
The Great Crater (post-WotI)
The Seven Magical Wonders of the Known World
Canolbarth Forest
Floating Ar
Glanti's School of Magic
The Princess Ark
Serraine the Flying City
Seashield
The Temple of Death in Hule
Unknown to Civilization's Sages
(well, at least the details are not likely known)
The Atruaghin plateau's Mystic Conveyor
City of Stars (and the Temple of Rafiel)
Nimmur's Star Device ziggurat.
Oenkmar (Jewel of the Deep)
Aegos' Hollow World elevator
Notable Minor Wonders of the Known World
The Citadel in Bettelyn
Blue Pinewoods of Boldavia
City of Brass
The Fire Ships of Ierendi
Alphatia's Flying Love Cruise
The Rainbow Bridge
Red River
Rockhome Ventilation System
Savage Coast Haze
Temple Statue on Taboo Island (lost)
World Elevator
I thought of the Temple of Vanya too when this post was first started. Here is description from DoI Bk One: DM's Sourcebook:
In 'The Estates'
"High Temple of Vanya" : This is the greatest temple of Thyatis, with a tower-spire stretching ten amazing stories into the sky, and a huge hall that can seat 10,000...."
I always imagined that this was a magnificent structure in Thyatis City. And it seems like I once read an expanded, very impressive description of the same temple on a website someone had written covering their in-depth coverage of Thyatis, but I am unable to find it.
Not sure how I missed this one. (I hope someone didn't mention it and get offended that I didn't include it).
Anyhow, I put it on the Modern Wonders list, displacing the World Elevator to the Minor Wonder list (making Spellweaver happy :D ). Thanks for the input!