The Kameral and other ancients - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ohtar_turinson Oct 03, 2004 19:15:48	Could I get any kind of description of the Kameral, and anything else of note about them? I'm looking for more information about primal exemplar races, and that is the one I know the least of. On a related note- the Ancient Baatorians. They've been discussed quite a bit, and I've seen alot of references to them- I've searched them on the boards and now, I'm using one in my campaign, but in a different way than what's outline in any 3ed material I've seen. I was wondering what other people make of this: Before the baatezu inhabited Baator, the plane was home to beings even older than the fiends. It's wrong to call the original residents "creatures," really, because they're actually essences of powers and beilefs from an unimaginably ancient age. The beings still lie scattered about Baator, seeping through the substance of the layers and the minds of the denizens, their presence virtually unknown and unknowable.
#2 Shemeska_the_Marauder Oct 03, 2004 23:02:09	Everything on the Kameral comes from 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase'. They appear as small, elven looking critters, almost fey-like (without wings). And they're completely and utterly xenophobic. Where the Rilmani are true neutrality as an active balancing force extending outwards and inwardly a balance of all of the alignments at once, the Kameral were a rejection of all outside alignments and influences. They were true neutrality as an absence of the others, as opposed to a balance. The war between them and the Rilmani was brief, as the Kameral fled and fell before the Rilmani rather than really wage war. Eventually they fled into a half reality of their own making in the great mirrored library at the center of what would become the Rilmani city of Sum-Of-All. The Kameral now 'live' in reflections and half-seen fragments of images in their mirror realm within the library, though when the Rilmani suffered from the effects of the Iron Shadow the Kameral briefly emerged to attempt to retake their place at the base of the Spire.
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 08, 2004 12:57:38	Someone on one website said that the Beholders were the orginal race of the Abyss.... Problem with that little theory is that not all Beholders are evil(just most of them), for example the(2nd Edition) Spectator was only interested in accumulating knowledge, and was used by all shorts of people like wizards to guard things of value. Then theres the Observer, which is similiar, but sometimes goes into Megalomaniac mode(Lawful Neutral with some evil tendacies)
#4 ohtar_turinson Oct 08, 2004 18:59:22	My personal take on the original abyssal race is thus: The layers themselves. After all... they are often directly (sometimes almost purposefully) inimical to life, even demonic life. There doesn't seem to be a limit to the number, at least not that anyone's ever seen... and I just like the idea. The other primeval races I know of are the Titans of Arborea, whatever is at the edge of Carceri (the Lovecraft knock offs) and whoever carved the caverns of Pandemonium. Then there's also the Slaadi- back before they were bound to a select few forms- and whatever left the 'Mechanus Lenses' mentioned in the planar handbook (yes, I know what the designers of that book probably intended. I just choose to ignore it.)
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 08, 2004 19:39:04	Their is an example of a True Slaadi (the name for Slaadi before they where limited in form) also in the 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase' book. It also has an example of an Ancient Baatorian in the last of the adventures that it covers, if may memmory serves me correctly.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ohtar_turinson

Oct 03, 2004 19:15:48

Could I get any kind of description of the Kameral, and anything else of note about them? I'm looking for more information about primal exemplar races, and that is the one I know the least of.

On a related note- the Ancient Baatorians. They've been discussed quite a bit, and I've seen alot of references to them- I've searched them on the boards and now, I'm using one in my campaign, but in a different way than what's outline in any 3ed material I've seen. I was wondering what other people make of this:

Before the baatezu inhabited Baator, the plane was home to beings even older than the fiends. It's wrong to call the original residents "creatures," really, because they're actually essences of powers and beilefs from an unimaginably ancient age. The beings still lie scattered about Baator, seeping through the substance of the layers and the minds of the denizens, their presence virtually unknown and unknowable.

Shemeska_the_Marauder

Oct 03, 2004 23:02:09

Everything on the Kameral comes from 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase'. They appear as small, elven looking critters, almost fey-like (without wings). And they're completely and utterly xenophobic.

Where the Rilmani are true neutrality as an active balancing force extending outwards and inwardly a balance of all of the alignments at once, the Kameral were a rejection of all outside alignments and influences. They were true neutrality as an absence of the others, as opposed to a balance.

The war between them and the Rilmani was brief, as the Kameral fled and fell before the Rilmani rather than really wage war. Eventually they fled into a half reality of their own making in the great mirrored library at the center of what would become the Rilmani city of Sum-Of-All. The Kameral now 'live' in reflections and half-seen fragments of images in their mirror realm within the library, though when the Rilmani suffered from the effects of the Iron Shadow the Kameral briefly emerged to attempt to retake their place at the base of the Spire.

zombiegleemax

Oct 08, 2004 12:57:38

Someone on one website said that the Beholders were the orginal race of the Abyss....

Problem with that little theory is that not all Beholders are evil(just most of them), for example the(2nd Edition) Spectator was only interested in accumulating knowledge, and was used by all shorts of people like wizards to guard things of value. Then theres the Observer, which is similiar, but sometimes goes into Megalomaniac mode(Lawful Neutral with some evil tendacies)

ohtar_turinson

Oct 08, 2004 18:59:22

My personal take on the original abyssal race is thus: The layers themselves. After all... they are often directly (sometimes almost purposefully) inimical to life, even demonic life. There doesn't seem to be a limit to the number, at least not that anyone's ever seen... and I just like the idea.

The other primeval races I know of are the Titans of Arborea, whatever is at the edge of Carceri (the Lovecraft knock offs) and whoever carved the caverns of Pandemonium.

Then there's also the Slaadi- back before they were bound to a select few forms- and whatever left the 'Mechanus Lenses' mentioned in the planar handbook (yes, I know what the designers of that book probably intended. I just choose to ignore it.)

zombiegleemax

Oct 08, 2004 19:39:04

Their is an example of a True Slaadi (the name for Slaadi before they where limited in form) also in the 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase' book. It also has an example of an Ancient Baatorian in the last of the adventures that it covers, if may memmory serves me correctly.