I'll do a quick chapter by chapter review.
Chapter 1: Wizards of Ansalon
This was an interesting chapter. There was a little bit about the background of wizards and a few set of stats for some of the more well known wizards (Antimodes and a young Level 1 Raistlin). I very much applaud the guts of Sovereign Press for making Raistlin 1st level. Given that the following products are going to show him at more powerful stages in his life, I thought this was an interesting choice that I agree with (and is probably a bit of a controversial choice, as well). More importantly, this chapter details the races and their views and aptitude toward the focused arcane energies. Also, there are many superb PrCs and errata to previous PrCs (War Mage, WoHS). Being the advocate of PrCs that I am (probably because of my SAGA days with all the Roles) I liked seeing the PrCs such as the Renegade Hunter, Winternorn, and my personal favorite, the Sylvan Mage. (Finally, an "in world" game answer on the nature of Bram diThon!)
Chapter 2: Spells & Magical Objects
Another excellent section. There are all sorts of new spells (I'm fairly certain there are new spells for every level) from Timereaver to the charms for the Groves, this chapters has everything you could want from DL specific spells. Ever wondered how Raistlin, a wizard of the Black Robes, could heal Tasslehoff? It's in here. What about Raistlin's fire that destroyed the plague ridden village? Yep, that's here, too.
There are many magical items and artifacts in this chapter as well, from the message bottle of The Companions to the Gauntlet of Ventyr from Defenders of Magic...this chapter is full of them. Magical books that increase your intelligence and XP, the Portals, the dragonorbs, Dragonlance specific power items (excellent for gifts after passing a "Soulforge" Test), all grace these pages. There are many mundane items too...including the bracelet of foresight from Wanderlust.
The true gem of this chapter is the table called "A Magical Lexicon and Glossary." Basically it's a Magius-to-English translation for basic terms. Absolutely brilliant! It is a must for all wizards who love to roleplay and freak out their fellow PCs.
Chapter 3: Gods and the Orders
Another excellent chapter. This takes information that has only been hinted at in past products and expands upon it. Essentially it is a section on the history of the Orders and their connection to the gods. There's a lot of good information here including Fistandantilus, Magius, and the Master of the Tower template. This is not a template for the Master, the one that showed up in the 5th Age (they get to his origins in Chapter 4). I mean a generic template a character receives when they become a Master of one of the five Towers.
Chapter 4: The Towers
Well...what can I say; this is the one spot where the book falls short for me. Was it because I was expecting too much? Perhaps hoping for more than I got? I don't know. Either way, I felt there were many missed opportunities for this section to be great...and it just fell short. Aside from being mostly a re-write (read: retcon) of the history of the towers (how they came to be, why they are where they are, who the first sorcerers were) and the orders, on many accounts, it contradicts many points in Chapter 3. It is too bad, there's a ton of great new information in here (like a lot of history of the Orders early on...and the full story on who the enigmatic Master of the Tower is). If perhaps they'd taken what existed before and just expanded upon it (as opposed to re-writing it) I think I would have liked this chapter a lot more.
Aside from the towers, it also details a few "magical strongholds." A lot of them are interesting, but again I feel there was a missed opportunity to discuss the Lost Citadel and it's protector, Bastion. However, being the fan of the Defenders of Magic series that I am, I'm probably just a little biased.
Oh, also...no maps. Not that I needed floor by floor map outs of the entire towers...but cut away schematics (ala The Atlas of Krynn) would have been very nice.
Chapter 5: The Test
This is the absolute star of the book. I don't know what else to say about it...it's a chapter about running the Test. It's great! It’s set up in a similar (if not the same) way as it is in The Last Tower: The Legacy of Raistlin, but it is revamped for wizards, and updated for D&D 3.5e. Not to mention, it changes the rules slightly so that it doesn't matter the course the PC takes, any Test can still be a Soulforge if the PC is willing to risk it all in every section.
Chapter 6: Creatures
Interesting chapter. There are some neat monsters. The Huldrefolk is quite good...and the art is appropriately freaky. Also, I do quite like the Remnant. I can see things building up to an interesting revelation in the upcoming book based off of Legends.
The only thing I'd say about this chapter is that it is lacking in art. There are a few pieces, but not many. Chapter 1 falls a little short in this department as well. All new creatures, races, PrCs, or classes in sourcebooks need art. That's the bare minimum, I think.
Chapter 7: Rivals
Well...this chapter was a little weak. It discusses the Thorn Knights and sorcerers in general, as well as Renegades. A few even have stats (where's Galen Dracos, though?) Essentially, at four pages in length...it just seems a bit sparse.
So, there you have it...the good and the bad (in my opinion) of the Towers of High Sorcery. I thought it was lacking a bit in art, and I felt there were some missed opportunities for greatness in Chapter 4. I was also hoping for either a fixed Moon Tracking Chart or at least an erratum for the one in the Dragonlance Campaign Sourcebook. That being said, however, this is an absolutely great book. If your character's a wizard...or if you're just interested in Dragonlance wizards in general, this book is a must have as far as I'm concerned.
It would have been nice to have seen the stats for the big three at the time of the War of the Lance, or are they waiting to publish them for the Legends sourcebook?
In all, I am quite happy with the book!
The overall content was very good and well-balanced between setting material and game rules material. The new PrC's are also well-received. The Spellbroker fits Jenna perfectly and I think she's written up very well.
On the downside I would have preferred more stats for some of the current Conclave characters like Coryn, and perhaps Willem and a few others. I tend to enjoy things like that. I'll assume that Raistlin's later stats are to be covered in WotL.
I'll also agree that some of the location details were vague and could have been enhanced with cutaways and maps.
Overall though I think it was a great book.
I personally found the Races & Wizardry section absolutely useless. Where they went through and commented on each race along with wizardry, they told us aboslutely nothing that was new. And I mean nothing. I just found it as a waste of space and would rather have had it filled with anything but what was there. I was hoping for maybe an example or two of people of certainr aces being wizards. Maybe a little bit more in depth. As I said, it told *nothing* i didnt already know. Kind of sad.
I liked the rewrite of the WoHS. Maybe it wasn't totally needed, but I'm glad they did it. I like the prestige classes for the most part. I still cant like PrC's that dont give close to full spellcasting progression tho =\. A 5 level PrC should only give up one level, and a 10 PrC should only give up 2, in my opionion. But Spell Broker and Winternon are solid classes. Renegade Hunter would be better if they only loss one or no spellcasting levels. I'm not exactly sure why someone who specializes in hunting the renegades would have less spells, but maybe its a "balance" thing.. whatever.
Spells and Magical items are nice. Its nice to see them statted out and able to use.
The Towers... was good and bad. I liked the backstories of each Tower. But I did hate the fact they didnt even stat out them at all. I understand they say "well its a transdimensional space and it could change". Ok I buy that, but show me the rooms that are there now.. with the disclaimer that it "could change". It would have been nice to see more of what differentiated the Towers from eachother. Instead of one room in each being the "unique thing" to that Tower. I know this sounds bad, but I think its kind of a cop out to say "well they can change". Maybe they just didnt want to draw the rooms out. I dunno.
The test section is very valuable and I'm glad it was included. It helped me when I was thinking of ideas to run for the Tests in my game. The only part I didnt like was the fact that the person taking the test would call out how hard he wanted an encounter? I thought that was a little weird and wont be using that part. But its still nice to see rules for the Test.
All in all a solid book. Glad I bought it and will definately be put to use. In any book there will be one or two problems, but they are easily ignored. So it was definately worth my money.
Alright, so I finished up Towers of High Sorcery this weekend. And I must say, Sovereign Press' products just keep getting better and better. I think the quality is getting better and (more importantly...I think) the content is getting better.
Yep, they've definately hit their stride.
I'll do a quick chapter by chapter review.
Chapter 1: Wizards of Ansalon
Being the advocate of PrCs that I am (probably because of my SAGA days
and all the Roles) I liked seeing the PrCs such as the Renegade Hunter,
Winternorn, and my personal favorite, the Sylvan Mage.
I have to say that most of the time I don't like prestige classes. I have to say though, I was very impressed by the fact that the prestige classes in this book had abilities that couldn't have simply been done with feats. That's unusual. It also annoys me a great deal, because there will be books with only 10 new feats, but 10 prestige classes that are glorified feat trees. Then to get the one minor ability that I want, I have to take the entire stinking prestige class, often multiple levels. Cragtop archer. Terrible.
For the record, my favourite prestige class is the Dwarven Savant. A Dark Dwarf (Zhakar) Savant is what I will play if I ever get the opportunity to play in a Dragonlance game.
Chapter 4: The Towers
Well...what can I say, this is the one spot where the book falls way short for me. Was it because I was expecting too much? Perhaps hoping for too much? I don't know.
Oh, also...no maps. Not that I would have liked/needed floor by floor map outs...but cut away schematics (ala The Atlas of Krynn would have been really nice).
Well, maps are expensive. So would have been the page count for detailing all the Towers of High Sorcery. Cam says that the Towers are like the TARDIS of Dr. Who (which I was never old enough to watch) but from what I hear described it makes no sense. Why construct a tower that you can't find your way around in from day to day? Why create such ridiculously powerful enchantments for little purpose when your life energy is needed to enchant things?
Myself, I would have liked to have had just the Tower of Wayreth, with a list of rooms. Then if I needed to design another Tower, I would have just extrapolated from that. Even without the map, a listing of all the facilities you can find in a Tower of High Sorcery would have been pleasant. It would give the DM some guidelines of how often the PC's can visit, what bonuses they can get for various things outside of the "Tower Resources" ability in the WoHS PrC, and so forth.
I would have also liked the picture and description of the Tower of the Bloodsea rather than the Tower of Istar. ;)
I'm not really interested in Bastion (I've already got the map anyway in the novel "The Serpent Plague"), but I have to say I really love the idea of Fistandantilus' Solamnic Stronghold in the Garnet Mountains. It is Dragonlance's answer to Hellgate Keep or Castle Greyhawk.
Think about it, an underground stronghold carved by magic for the most powerful archmage ever to live. You can have as many or as few levels as few as you wish. You can add levels as you wish, because you can assume that Fistandantilus himself travelled to the various regions of his dungeon through teleportation.
You can fill that sucker up with demons that wizard summoned, abberations that he created, undead that were tormented there, traps that were constructed, mazes designed to unravel the sanity of those trapped, and lots and lots of treasure. I am so going to learn how to use Dunjinni to map that place. Even if Sovereign Press maps it out with a module in the future, I can just stick it right on theirs with a tiny revision of its entry and exit points.
Chapter 6: Creatures
Interesting chapter. Some neat monsters. The Huldrefolk is quite good...and the art is appropriately freaky.
The art is really important when describing monsters. The Huldrefolk I can tolerate now, even if I stil don't like it.
Chapter 7: Rivals
Well...this chapter was a little weak. It discusses the Thorn Knights and sorcerers in general, as well as Renegades. A few are even statted (where's Galen Dracos, though?) Essentially, at four pages in length...it just seems a bit sparse.
I was satisfied with it, though a few more characters would have been nice. I was especially pleased with the fact that it clarified that sorcerers aren't renegades, but a different (and perhaps opposing magical tradition). I also like the fact that Lunitari likes sorcerers, which is mentioned in the Gods section.
Alright, so I finished up Towers of High Sorcery this weekend. And I must say, Sovereign Press' products just keep getting better and better. I think the quality is getting better and (more importantly...I think) the content is getting better. (although I'm still a bit partial to the Bestiary of Krynn...its still my favorite)
Tobin,
Thanks for the detailed review! I hope you enjoy War of the Lance even more!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Thanks for the detailed review! I hope you enjoy War of the Lance even more!
Heh heh...its funny you should say that. Although I haven't had much of a chance to do anything more than peruse over it...it is very much looking like WotL is going to blow all previous DL products out of the water (and I don't just mean Sovereign Press' DL products...I mean all of them). But I'm trying not to build up my hopes too much... ;)
Yep, they've definately hit their stride.
That's a fact. Have you picked up a WotL book yet? :D
I have to say though, I was very impressed by the fact that the prestige classes in this book had abilities that couldn't have simply been done with feats.
That's true...there are a lot of Roles or PrCs that could be just feats. For the most part, I've thought the DL PrCs have been very well done (except for the Legion of Steel one ;))
Well, maps are expensive.
Right, that's why a floor by floor map of the towers would be impractical. I think the cut away maps of the Tower of Wayreth and the Tower of Palanthas were great in the original Atlas. It would have been cool to see that for Daltigoth, Istar, and Losarcum. I too don't really buy that the towers are like the TARDIS, except for Wayreth...that one could be (what with being in another dimension and all).
I would have also liked the picture and description of the Tower of the Bloodsea rather than the Tower of Istar. ;)
I wonder...at the absence of Coryn...perhaps there was some sort of thing with WotC that they aren't allowed to mention such things? ('cause obviously Margaret would have known what she was writing) I could be wrong, but that'd make sense.
I'm not really interested in Bastion (I've already got the map anyway in the novel "The Serpent Plague")
Alright, I admit it...I wanted a painting of Bastion. That was my alterior motive. :D (I always thought Elmore was taking a bit of artistic liscense on the cover of The Seventh Sentinel...but after reading ToHS, I think that was supposed to be the Lost Citadel...not Bastion.
I have to say I really love the idea of Fistandantilus' Solamnic Stronghold in the Garnet Mountains.
Yes, very cool. Was this an original creation for ToHS? Or did it come from something else?
The art is really important when describing monsters. The Huldrefolk I can tolerate now, even if I stil don't like it.
Really? Man, I love the new Huldrefolk art!
Now, to be fair...Chapter 4 has a lot of great stuff in it. The history is great...there is a ton of new great information on the Orders and the Towers that we've never had before. If it just wasn't for the fact that it re-wrote some of the history and disagree with Chapter 3 on those same issues...Chapter 4 would have been the gem of the book and not Chapter 5. It was so close.
I was talking to chris pierson about this at gencon (he did the tower backgrounds), and the bloodsea tower was news to him. Jamie said that Margaret liked his istar tower writeup so much that she made it into a major part of A&A, and they modified the entry in ToHS to allow for the bloodsea tower to exist.
So, there you have it...the good and the bad (in my opinion) of the Towers of High Sorcery. I thought it was lacking a bit in art,
The art was the best I have ever seen in any of the Dragonlance V.3.5 products that are out on the market today.
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The art was the best I have ever seen in any of the Dragonlance V.3.5 products that are out on the market today.
The art was great, don't get me wrong. By far the highest quality in an SP DL product to date (except for the Tower of Istar). By "lacking," I meant quantity wise. I like to see a picture for every PrC and creature (which this book didn't have).
Personally...I like to see a piece of art for every magic item, too. But I won't hold that against them...I just like to see art in RPG books. :D
ToHS Review
Thanks to Tobin for the review.
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Hey Brim, what about Dalamar's lightning bolt that killed a blue dragon, huh, huh?
When did he do that? If it's in Wizards Conclave, I haven't read that yet.
I suppose if he made all his attacks, and the dragon failed all it's saving throws...Dalamar's Lightning Lance could fell a dragon. Now to kill a blue dragon with it...well, he'd have to figure out a way to change the damage from electricity to something else...sounds live a very sorcerer thing to do...of course, Dalamar hates sorcery...so he'd never do that. ;)
so sayeth chris coyle way back when the dlcs came out.
That's a fact. Have you picked up a WotL book yet? :DThat's true...there are a lot of Roles or PrCs that could be just feats. For the most part, I've thought the DL PrCs have been very well done (except for the Legion of Steel one ;))I don't mind the Legion of Steel one. I buy the argument that there is no real archetypal Legion of Steel member. I dislike the Solamnic Knight one because I don't want to have to multi-class three times to get to be a Rose Knight, and I dislike the idea of Rose Knights being a clerical order. I'll probably enjoy the single 10 level Solamnic Knight class though if it is like the WoHS.Right, that's why a floor by floor map of the towers would be impractical. I think the cut away maps of the Tower of Wayreth and the Tower of Palanthas were great in the original Atlas.
I would rather have the exterior picture than the maps in DLA or TotL . I really don't need to know where a couple of rooms are in the Tower of Palanthas. I don't really need a map of the ToHS unless I'm going to do a full-on Dungeon Crawl in it. A way to keep the rest of the party busy while the apprentice takes the Test.I wonder...at the absence of Coryn...perhaps there was some sort of thing with WotC that they aren't allowed to mention such things? ('cause obviously Margaret would have known what she was writing) I could be wrong, but that'd make sense.
Well see, that's the thing. The Novel Line, not the gaming license, determines the direction of the setting. This is the opposite of the FR gaming line. That means that the gaming line will always be playing catch-up. There is overlap (Margaret Weis, Chris Pierson write some novels and contribute to the gaming stuff) and there is probably a good working relationship... but it isn't the same as having everything under the same umbrella.
However, these little hicups could be corrected through web enhancements. Take Coryn's stats, put the picture on Page 28 next to it, and create a metamagic feat that allows a wizard to burn out some prepared wizard spell slots to spontaneously cast a spell. Omission corrected.
I would make her a Wiz/WoHS/Wtrnorn myself.On Fistandantilus' Stronghold
Was this an original creation for ToHS? Or did it come from something else?
As far as I can tell, it is based on the dungeon complex that was "One of Fistandantilus' many homes" in the novel "Divine Hammer" on page 84. Whether it is the same one as in Divine Hammer I cannot say. Doesn't really matter I guess.If it just wasn't for the fact that it re-wrote some of the history and disagree with Chapter 3 on those same issues...Chapter 4 would have been the gem of the book and not Chapter 5. It was so close.
Yeah, there was a sense of Deja Vu in the first two chapters as well in regards to spellcasting among the races. I mean, you have Races and Wizardry, and then a repeat of the information about races and wizardry in the Wizards of High Sorcery writeup.
I would rather have the exterior picture than the maps in DLA or TotL .
I didn't say DLA or TotL...I said the Atlas. That book did an excellent job with buildings like that. You get a both a good idea of the interior layout...and exterior shape. But I like the paintings too...
Here's a link to the Tower of Palanthas from the Atlas. Here.
However, these little hicups could be corrected through web enhancements.
Agreed.
Even if you covered all the floors, it wouldn't be much better than simply listing all the rooms. So I still think the exterior shot was more important.
I don't know, if we were gonna get maps perhaps we should have got maps of an example wizard's keep, or other strongholds and locations that we could tear apart.
Man, if Dragonlance comes out with another "Book of Lairs" I would buy it before the ink was dry. Just a long series of strongholds and dungeons featuring a PrC class or monster type.
Originally posted by darthsylverHey Brim, what about Dalamar's lightning bolt that killed a blue dragon, huh, huh?
Originally posted by brimstone
When did he do that? If it's in Wizards Conclave, I haven't read that yet.
In dalamar the dark, page 282. Not just one strike but muliple. Even if the dragon's saves failed, and Dalamar beat his SR the dragon is invulnerable to lightning. So how did he do it?
In dalamar the dark, page 282. Not just one strike but muliple. Even if the dragon's saves failed, and Dalamar beat his SR the dragon is invulnerable to lightning. So how did he do it?
I guess it would be Dalamar's Lightning Lance. Isn't like half of that damage negative energy? That'll hurt a blue dragon.
Yeah, but all I see are Dalamar's Quarters, Raistlin's Quarters, and the Library. Good for a sense of scale I suppose, but not much else.
Yeah...that's all you need. I don't need a floor layout...I just wanted a Tower layout. Like you said, there's really no need for a floor by floor, uh, floor plan. (since I doubt many people would actually dungeon crawl a Tower) It just would have been cool to get an idea of what the inside of the Towers look like.
Man, if Dragonlance comes out with another "Book of Lairs" I would buy it before the ink was dry. Just a long series of strongholds and dungeons featuring a PrC class or monster type.
Do you have the old one? If not...I know a few places where you can get one.
EDIT: Crap, I forgot...you don't live in the U.S. do you? I'm not sure if these places deliver outside the U.S. (I don't see why they wouldn't, but I seem to recall people not being able to get international shipping from hitpointe.com)
Yeah...that's all you need. I don't need a floor layout...I just wanted a Tower layout. Like you said, there's really no need for a floor by floor, uh, floor plan. (since I doubt many people would actually dungeon crawl a Tower) It just would have been cool to get an idea of what the inside of the Towers look like.
The Towers of High Sorcery are places of such power and importance in the world that any attempt to adventure in them tends to displace continuity very quickly. It is definately the turf of the Sovereign Press to decide if a Tower of High Sorcery is lost or won, inhabited or abandoned. That is why nobody is jumping on the idea of adventuring in the Tower of Nightlund.
Now you can certainly have an adventure in a Tower of High Sorcery where the status quo is returned at the end of the adventure. Cases like that might include an escaped demon, a murder mystery, or a renegade gone amok. Of course, given that the Tower usually has 15th+ level mages around on any given day, the PC's involvement is kind of hard to justify. Another scenerio is where the wizards invite the PC's, who then use the Tower to teach them a valuable life lesson, in a manner similar to the way they teach their wizards during the test. Of course, for that we have the Test chart in Chapter 5.
Do you have the old one? If not...I know a few places where you can get one.
Yep. I love that book. My favourite encounters are the Aurak Draconian, the Death Knight, the Dreamwraiths, the Phaethon, and the Tinker Gnomes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthsylver
In dalamar the dark, page 282. Not just one strike but muliple. Even if the dragon's saves failed, and Dalamar beat his SR the dragon is invulnerable to lightning. So how did he do it?
Originally posted by Brimstone
I guess it would be Dalamar's Lightning Lance. Isn't like half of that damage negative energy? That'll hurt a blue dragon.
What the spell does is 3d6 impact damage, + 1d6 \ caster level electricity damage.
So the dragon would have been immune to all the electricity damage and just have to deal with the impact damage 3d6 (max 18 damage per lance) with a fortitude for half. So it would take at least 11 strikes at full damage with the dragon failing all saves, and forgetting about spell resistance, to kill a young adult. Now even Dalamar as statted in the AoM could not cast that many 4th level spells. So Dalamar in Dalamar the Dark could not have pulled it off. (Yes, I know there is a little writer's freedom to create and exaggerate here but sheesh.) I would just like someone to explain how dally did this.
my thoughts? the dragon rolled really bad on its hit dice =)
What the spell does is 3d6 impact damage, + 1d6 \ caster level electricity damage.
I knew it was something like that. Couldn't remember what it was, though...all I could remember was that not all the damage was electricity.
Psst - Magic of Darkness. Lightning Lance does so much damage at 10th level you can't help but kill the sucker with a couple, even if you are only getting half damage.
Yeah, but the point was that Dalamar wasn't that high a level.
I think you're just going to have to say that it was Dalamar's Lightning Lance that allowed him to be hurt...and the rest is just going to have to be chalked up to creative writing on NVB's part.