- If a wizard takes and passes the Test, does he have to take a level of the WoHS PrC?
- If a wizard is a member of the WoHS, but likes to wear, say, yellow robes, would that be a problem?
- Assuming psionics is allowed in the campaign, and a WoHS takes a few levels of psion, would that make him a renegade?
I seem to recall that there may be an answer to the first question somewhere in the DLCS, but I can't find it. I suspect that answers to the second two are more a matter of opinion, but I wanted to see what others had to say.
Thanks!
No, I don't believe so.
[If a wizard is a member of the WoHS, but likes to wear, say, yellow robes, would that be a problem?]
Plenty of wizards wear other clothes. It's rather like the Masons, the robes are only required when you are doing official business (How I've interpreted it) and even then its only as a form of identification.
I.e. Yellow robes are fine but it'd be necessary for a white, black, or red sash.
Largely, the robes just serve as a badge of office so people of Krynn know "FEAR ME!"
Also that other wizards don't mistake you for a renegade.
[Assuming psionics is allowed in the campaign, and a WoHS takes a few levels of psion, would that make him a renegade?]
No, psionics are totally different. some wizards might want to control them but they are unrelated to arcane power in Krynn.
2. Dunbar was the head of the White Robes and dressed like a sailor only sporting a white sash to show his status. More or less you are suposed to have some mark of the order you belong to. Does it have to be a full robe? No.
3. Psionics are totally up to the DM. There are no official stances one way or the other.
2. Nope.
3. So long as it isn't A) dependent on another patron deity or B) a power that originates with Chaos, it probably won't. Multiclassing out of WoHS into a class that doesn't prepare arcane spells however prevents you from advancing further as a WoHS, much as a paladin or monk multiclassing into another class prevents you from advancing further as a paladin or monk.
Cheers,
Cam
2) This is optional. Most Order wizards choose to wear the distinctive colors of their Order for the same reason the Knights of Solamnia tend to wear distinctive armor - because it's a badge of honor. Passing the Test is no small accomplishment so most who have done it want to publicly showcase that fact. Raistlin did not take Fizban's mousy grey robes as a sign he was a renegade.
3) Psionics were officially absent 2E Dragonlance, and I don't recall any psionics back in 1E Dragonlance either. If a DM chooses to introduce psionics into a 3E setting that is a personal choice, but these powers have never had any place on Krynn.
Regarding not taking levels in the WoHS Prc,
Basically you'd be an aloof member, that is a member (not considered a renegade) but your affiliation is tangential at best.
I'm glad you said that, that's the sort of wizard I had in mind.
Regarding whether a WoHS needs to wear their Order's color, I perhaps should have stated my question better. I was wondering if it were okay to not wear any indication of affiliation with the Orders. Psionycx's comment that,
Raistlin did not take Fizban's mousy grey robes as a sign he was a renegade.
answers that question.
On Cam's comment: Yes, such multiclassing prevents one from taking more levels of WoHS, but one can continue advancing in the wizard core class without penalty (from the Conclave), correct?
Finally, regarding psionics, yes I understand that the inclusion of psionics in Dragonlance is optional, and therefore how it fits in Krynn is up to the individual DM, but I was just wondering how others think the WoHS might react to one of the own practicing it (or, for that matter, how they'd react to one of their own also being a sorcerer).
Oh, one other question. I've read here and there about the vow the WoHS take; no armor, only certain weapons, etc. Is there any place where these vows are actually all listed? (Book and page number?)
Thanks!
On Cam's comment: Yes, such multiclassing prevents one from taking more levels of WoHS, but one can continue advancing in the wizard core class without penalty (from the Conclave), correct?
!
Right. Any class that prepares arcane spells, such as wizard, or another prestige class that advances spellcasting (like the ones in the Towers sourcebook, or the archmage, or various PrCs in other products).
Other classes, including prestige classes without bonus spellcaster levels, like the duelist, are restricted.
Cheers,
Cam
What about those which don't provide +1 spellcasting level, but do give bonus spells (like the Dragon Disciple)?
As long as the character still advances their arcane spellcasting abilities in some way then I would consider them as still being dedicated to the magic, and thus still eligible to advance as WoHS. But if the class in question doesn't increase either their spells known or spells per day then I don't think that that class passes muster.
The above is exactly correct. Just because the spellcasting progression is interrupted at certain levels doesn't mean that the class is no longer a class that prepares arcane spells, since it is. The key is that it must advance the existing ability of the wizard to prepare spells, or have a spell list of its own which it prepares as a wizard does.
Cheers,
Cam
Right. Any class that prepares arcane spells, such as wizard, or another prestige class that advances spellcasting (like the ones in the Towers sourcebook, or the archmage, or various PrCs in other products).
Other classes, including prestige classes without bonus spellcaster levels, like the duelist, are restricted.
Cheers,
Cam
Thanks, but once again I guess I wasn't clear in my question (rereading it, I can see where I was ambiguous). Sorry about that, I'll try again. Let's say Trent is a 4th level wizard, takes and passes the Test, then takes a level of WoHS. Next, for his 6th character level, he takes a level of rogue. Now, he can no longer take levels of WoHS. But, if he takes more levels of the wizard class, would the Conclave tell him not to (ie, could he take more levels in the wizard class after his level of rogue)?
Another way of putting it: is this a restriction on the WoHS prestige class, or is it a restriction on advancing in arcane magic for members of the WoHS (whether or not they have the PrC).
Hope that's more clear, and thanks for your patience.
Another way of putting it: is this a restriction on the WoHS prestige class, or is it a restriction on advancing in arcane magic for members of the WoHS (whether or not they have the PrC).
Oh, right. Nope, it's just the wizard of High Sorcery prestige class that's limited in this fashion. Essentially, the wizard has more or less declared that they no longer have the commitment to the deeper mysteries of the Orders, and so they're "slumming it".
Of course, this can all be vetoed by the Dungeon Master as needed. In my own campaigns, I treat multiclassing and so forth on a case by case basis.
Cheers,
Cam
But there's still an unanswered question that I'm quite curious about: What is the vow that WoHS take?
They must follow the three Foundations of Magic that have been defined in the setting for a long time:
1) All Wizards are brothers and sisters in their Order. All Orders are brothers and sisters in power.
2) The places of High Sorcery are held in common among all Orders and no magic is to be used in anger against fellow wizards in these places
3) The world beyond the Towers may bring brother against sister and Order against Order, but such is the way of the universe.
Beyond that all WoHS must obey the commands of the Conclave and of their Order. They must preserve the secrets of the Orders against outsiders. They must report any renegade activity they become aware of. And they must not try to alter the basic nature of magic and/or reality without express permission from the Conclave.
In practical terms this means follow the orders of the Conclave. In practice that means following the above guidelines. The Conclave isn't heavily present in a wizard's everyday life unless he lives in a Tower or one of the Order schools. Raistlin tramped from one end of Ansalon to the other without receiving a single communique from the Conclave. So it's not like magical messengers arrive regularly with instructions.
The third Foundation highlights this. So long as WoHS don't do something that threatens the Orders or the magic, the Conclave doesn't take direct interest in their affairs. During the War of the Lance many Black Robes signed on with Takhisis and this was simply expected. Likewise, many White and Red Robes opposed them. Wizards may fight on opposing sides in a war or such without censure.
Becoming a renegade generally means breaking with the Orders, as many Black Robes did when Takhisis created her Grey Robed Knights of the Thorn. Otherwise you have to do something threatening the magic. If a Black Robe conquered a fiefdom for himself and banned anyone from using magic but himself then the Conclave might take exception to that. But if he were taking on apprentices and furthering the use of the Art in his lands then they probably wouldn't oppose him.
Towers of High Sorcery talks about this a bit and is an excellent and worthwhile resource.
Thanks Psionycx. I'm puzzled by occasional references to how WoHS are restricted in the weapons they use, and that they're not allowed to wear armor (even if, e.g., they have armor proficiency and levels of war mage from AoM). It makes me think there's some official vow, I just haven't found it. Not even in ToHS. But at least I now know I'm not missing something that is in print.
The whole not wearing armor or bearing weapons other than daggers or staves is more symbolic than anything else. It shows a wizard's reliance on the magic. Although remember that there is still the penalty for spellcasting in armor to contend with. Likewise wizards, unless they have levels in other classes, generally don't have much in the way of weapon proficiency.
That said, marching into a Conclave meeting wearing a suit of chain with a longsword hanging off your belt would probably result in some terse words being spoken at the very least.
"Note that this does not lift the armor restrictions of other classes, such as Wizards of High Sorcery."
This is what led me to think that WoHS are not allowed to wear armor (even though this passage doesn't say anything about an actual vow).
In practice instances existed of multi-class wizards that did wear armor and carry other weapons, subject to the limits on spellcasting in armor.
Realistically speaking I have never seen a rigid rule-based penalty for WoHS that bear other arms. I've never seen it written that they become renegades for doing so. Strict DM's might choose to deny advancement in the WoHS PrC if the player insists on having their character use weapons and armor.
would the Arcane Archer PrC be considered to advance one's Arcane ability??
No. An arcane archer doesn't gain a bonus spell progression at any point in his advancement as an arcane archer, so taking this PrC would prevent you from taking further levels as a wizard of High Sorcery.
Eldritch knight, on the other hand, would be fine.
Cheers,
Cam
It would be fine techincally, but how would an Eldritch Knight be looked upon by the conclave? That seems more like a class for sorcerers (at least in DL)
They'd be fine, especially if they don't walk about in armor waving a sword about. Think of it as a war mage lite.
Cheers,
Cam