So how many are there, and who are they?
Also, does anyone know if other D&D settings had avignions? I saw that they are listed in the old 2e encyclopedia magica (title?).
Don't you think avignions are pretty weak compared to the dragons?
I saw someone mention that there were 3 avignions in dark sun. I only know of one in the metaplot (who died, alas) and one mentioned in the flavor story that was included with a module (a woman).
So how many are there, and who are they?
Also, does anyone know if other D&D settings had avignions? I saw that they are listed in the old 2e encyclopedia magica (title?).
Don't you think avignions are pretty weak compared to the dragons?
1. I forget. Someone who keeps better track of them, would be able to answer that.
2. To my knowledge, Avangions are very much a unique creature to Dark Sun.
3. Physically, the Avangion is extraordinarily weaker than the Dragons. However, their magical and psionic power makes up for this weakness. The Avangion is supposed to be a fragile, but powerful being. However, they tend to be fragile for a lot of the process before they really come into their power, making them easier to kill, it seems. However, there also is no known Avangion who had achieved complete metamorphosis.
(look boys and girls, someone found that other dead kank to dredge up and beat around again.... new rule - bury the dead kanks deeper) :D
In any case, you guys can ignore the "Is an avignion weak" part of my post, and focus on the others, cause I was just musing about how I don't see them getting many extraordinary powers as they evolve.
sure it's an old debate, but let's face facts: we talk about a game setting that isn't even published anymore; we live in the past here.
Not just an old debate. This is a topic that's brought up at least three times a week. Or so it seems. And it starts up some serious tempers too. And we are discussing a game setting that has new releases for it, on Athas.org. The releases don't come out fast - but let's face it, people are doing this on their free time, and have other responsibilities that take higher priority than Dark Sun. However, the Epic rules are being worked on by the Epic Bureau for Athas.org, of which I am a part. The Epic rules will cover Dragons, Avangions, Spirits of the Land and Cleric-Elementals; they will cover the rules for Dragon Magic, as well as Psionic Enchantments. They will cover rules about The Order (I believe). We'll also have breakdowns for each of the Sorcerer-Kings, and probably have some for the Mind Lords and other big nasties.
In any case, you guys can ignore the "Is an avignion weak" part of my post, and focus on the others, cause I was just musing about how I don't see them getting many extraordinary powers as they evolve.
The processes that were part of 2E were... well.... hastily done. And the Avangion, from the 2E mechanics is very much imbalanced with the Dragon. However, the two will be comperably powerful with the rules from Athas.org, when they are released.
I look forward to when all this comes out. I didn't realize the debate came up that much!
Dragons and Avangions are probably the single most debated topic on these forums. Very closely behind that are specifics on Sorcerer-Kings, Preservers & Defilers (arcane magic in general), etc. Actually, it's interesting. Clerics, Druids, Templars.... these aren't discussed as much. Another popular topic is the Dragon and Dungeon magazine articles for Dark Sun, which has calmed down a lot, but used to cause even more...erm.....heated debates than the Dragons and Avangions do.
Basically, when it comes to Dragons and Avangions, I had proposed a rather radical approach to handling them, which some others had disliked for one reason or another. Basically, it was unorthodox in that it didn't stick at all with the 2E rules for dragons and avangions, but rather started fresh, with something that was decidedly 3/3.5e mechanics, but preserved the flavor of them from the books. I will say, people who have misgivings about my dragon and avangion rules... will probably be shocked, and pleasantly surprised by what's being drummed up from the Bureau. Unfortunately, people will have to wait and see what comes out from the Bureau, but I think many will be pleased with the results.
#2) Oronis, the Sorcerer-King of ? (one of the northern city-states, I don't remember the name), from the Revised Dark Sun box set.
#3) ?
I do recall that Dragon Kings had a story in the chapter on wizards about a Balican preserver who disappeared for a time and then returned, only "different." He was then killed by his followers. The implication was that the preserver had become a low-level avangion, though a 21st level mage/psionicist being killed by an angry mob is hard to swallow. Of course, it's supposed to be an story being told about past events, so it could be something made up by Andropinis or his templars.
wait Oronis somehow made a switch from dragon to avignion?! I wouldn't think that is possible.
Yes. Oronis switched from Dragon to Avangion. He was Keltis, Lizard-Man Executioner. He redeemed himself, and arguably had invented the Avangion process. He is the Sorcerer-King... or rather, the Avangion of Kurn. He pretends to be the Sorcerer-King of Old Kurn, while has no official position in New Kurn. The Athas.org team is working on a release called "The Lost Cities" which will cover details about both Kurn and it's neighbor, Eldaaritch (home of Daskinor, possibly the most insane of the Sorcerer-Kings).
so this begs the question, could you take the oppisite metamorphisis path at any level of your progression? Could Borys become an avingion if he suddenly had a change of heart?!
If Borys was still alive, yes he could. However I doubt that he would even if he was still living.
Requirements: a dragon has to find a druid to redeem him, plus get the trust of Oronis to obtain a copy of the spell.
Effects: do you lose your dragon levels? or do you lose all abilities related to those levels while replacing the levels with avangion levels...that's for athas.org to decide after some serious playtesting.
Here's a list of avangions:
Oronis:
FY -539 Oronis (the Champion formerly known as Keltis) first comes into the picture by developping the avangion metamorphosis process, which he uses on himself.
(Defilers & Preservers; Wanderer's Chronicle; Timeline)
Nerad:
FY -462 Nerad receives avangion metamorphosis spell from Oronis and becomes Athas' second avangion. But later, after revealing himself to the Veiled Alliance of Tyr, Nerad is discovered by King Kalak - who in turn contacts the Dragon. Borys later kills Nerad. In his grief, Oronis hides all copies of the spell.
(Book of Artifacts; Timeline)
Korgunard:
FY -1 After years of investigation into the death of Nerad, Korgunard learns of Oronis. Though reluctant to have another death on his hands, Oronis gives him the spell.
(Timeline)
FY 2 Aided by the Veiled Alliance of Urik, Korgunard becomes Athas's third avangion.
(Arcane Shadows; Timeline)
FY 4 The avangion Korgunard is slain by members of the Order.
(Dragon Crown; Timeline)
Amiska:
FY ? Amiska becomes Athas' fourth avangion. Hamanu sends a templar through the wastes to the creature, so his power can bridge the distance and destroy it. The templar turns on his king and saves the avangion.
("Service", by Lynn Abbey, in Black Flames)
Spoiler Warning:
FY ? SPOILER!!!!!!
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The avangion in the Tribe of One trilogy of novels.
BTW the Search function is in fine working order.
and how about dregoth? His evolution in both ways is effectively cut off, right?
As far as we know ("we" behing those of us who haven't read Dregoth Ascending), any of the four metamorphosises require the recipient to be alive. Dregoth is dead.
Btw, I count dragon, avigion, and elemental among the metamorphises. What's fourth again?
I remember a level 20+ theif progression (from dragon kings I believe)too, could that in any way compete with assended humans? And are athas.org making metamorphisis spell effects kind of like aquiring a prestige class in order to have some balance, or will dragons and avigion PCs be overpowered?
BTW the Search function is in fine working order.
I stand corrected.
But I ask for tolerance and understanding for new posters.
Comments in the tone of "Ho hum, not this topic...AGAIN" really isn't that welcoming to newbie's. I'd imagine it would really deter them from wanting to post again.
so this begs the question, could you take the oppisite metamorphisis path at any level of your progression? Could Borys become an avingion if he suddenly had a change of heart?!
Well, understand that it took Keltis about a thousand years to have switched from one to the other. And there was a LOT of repentence and things he needed to do. He also probably needed the help of a druid (or a Pyreen), and these aren't people known for their love of Dragons or Defilers. Oronis still feels a lot of guilt for his past atrocities, especially with him having (in his mind) totally annihilated an entire species from the world, and destroying much of the world to do so. I'd rule that the path to redemption for a Dragon to become an Avangion is at least as difficult as what Keltis did, based on the past atrocities the Dragon had done.
that was a good list of Avigions, but are you eluding to a fifth, unkown one there?
The fifth he's alluding to is from the book trilogy "The Tribe of One", which has many large inconsistancies with the setting. There is some good things from that book, and several cool ideas. However, the writer really took a lot of artistic license with it, and many feel it strays a bit too much. In the book, it points to one of the characters within it (called The Sage or something) that is on the path of the Avangion. Some agree with this, others don't. Personally, I don't like that being added in (even though, I do like some of the ideas the author had for the actual process).
Btw, I count dragon, avigion, and elemental among the metamorphises. What's fourth again?
I remember a level 20+ theif progression (from dragon kings I believe)too, could that in any way compete with assended humans? And are athas.org making metamorphisis spell effects kind of like aquiring a prestige class in order to have some balance, or will dragons and avigion PCs be overpowered?
Defilers can become Dragons
Preservers can become Avangions
Clerics can become Elementals
Druids can become Spirits of the Land
And the process we are working on involves Epic Spells and Epic Prestige Classes for each. We also are trying to ensure there is some kind of balance to the classes, so that an Advanced Being would be balanced with, let's say.... an equally-high-levelled Epic Defiler or something.
The fifth he's alluding to is from the book trilogy "The Tribe of One", which has many large inconsistancies with the setting. There is some good things from that book, and several cool ideas. However, the writer really took a lot of artistic license with it, and many feel it strays a bit too much. In the book, it points to one of the characters within it (called The Sage or something) that is on the path of the Avangion. Some agree with this, others don't. Personally, I don't like that being added in (even though, I do like some of the ideas the author had for the actual process).
The author wrote as if the Avangion and the Wanderer were the one in the same being as well as being an elf.
I stand corrected.
But I ask for tolerance and understanding for new posters.
Comments in the tone of "Ho hum, not this topic...AGAIN" really isn't that welcoming to newbie's. I'd imagine it would really deter them from wanting to post again.
For the record, I answered his replies, then it was more of a general comment about the topic being dug up. If people take offense to that, which is not even remotely directed at them, but rather an observation in general... well.... I feel sorry for them, because they'll get offended by *anything*.
What I find ironic is you are continuing to drag this up in the thread. I don't have anything against claytonian, and I really don't think he does with me. So therefore, this is a moot point, and doesn't need to continue to be drudged up here
No offense Sysane, but let's just let this one drop, ok?For the record, I answered his replies, then it was more of a general comment about the topic being dug up. If people take offense to that, which is not even remotely directed at them, but rather an observation in general... well.... I feel sorry for them, because they'll get offended by *anything*.
What I find ironic is you are continuing to drag this up in the thread. I don't have anything against claytonian, and I really don't think he does with me. So therefore, this is a moot point, and doesn't need to continue to be drudged up here
I really wouldn't constitute two posts as "continuing to drag" up anything.
I could go on but I won't. Not really worth it. All I was pointing out was that a little cordiality goes a long way with new posters.
There I've said my two bits. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread :D
As far as we know ("we" behing those of us who haven't read Dregoth Ascending), any of the four metamorphosises require the recipient to be alive. Dregoth is dead.
They day Dregoth switches over to being an Avangion is the day the only thing left on Athas is himself, and even then I would question that.
Especially what happens to him in DA, I seriously doubt he would switch to Avangion after that.
They day Dregoth switches over to being an Avangion is the day the only thing left on Athas is himself, and even then I would question that.
Amen to that. I'd say Dregoth is the evilest thing to hit Athas since Rajaat. No way he's changing his spots.
Raajat was just loco.
the twin powers of revenge and ambition fuel him.
Raajat was just loco.
Trying to become Athas' first God and turning the worthy into Dray and killing the rest seems just as insane to me.
Trying to become Athas' first God and turning the worthy into Dray and killing the rest seems just as insane to me.
Aye.
He basically wants to start another Cleansing War.
That doesn't speak of sanity to me either.
I do recall that Dragon Kings had a story in the chapter on wizards about a Balican preserver who disappeared for a time and then returned, only "different." He was then killed by his followers. The implication was that the preserver had become a low-level avangion, though a 21st level mage/psionicist being killed by an angry mob is hard to swallow.
i reread that story, and i am not sure it was an avangion:
"throkat had changed - evil had taken over his body"
the words 'preserver' or 'defiler' are never used, he is just called a 'powerful wizard'.
and as to an angry mob killing an advanced being: this is an angry athasian mob were talking about.
i reread that story, and i am not sure it was an avangion:
"throkat had changed - evil had taken over his body"
the words 'preserver' or 'defiler' are never used, he is just called a 'powerful wizard'.
and as to an angry mob killing an advanced being: this is an angry athasian mob were talking about.
What i think the story was trying to convay was that Andropinis had some how dominated the "preserver" and FORCED him to attack his followers with the intent making Balic's citizens fear magic, be it preserving or defiling. In turn the SK let the wizard be killed the mob.
#1) Korungard, from the Arcane Shadows and Dragon's Crown adventures.
#2) Oronis, the Sorcerer-King of ? (one of the northern city-states, I don't remember the name), from the Revised Dark Sun box set.
#3) ?
Nerad. Oronis' first diciple (Korungard was his first)
Nerad. Oronis' first diciple (Korungard was his first)
Don't you mean Korgunaard was his second?
There are many theories on who the Great One is. The most popular of them being that he's a time traveling Oronis.
Inevitably someone is going to bring up the Thri-Kreen's The Great One so I might as throw it out there now.
There are many theories on who the Great One is. The most popular of them being that he's a time traveling Oronis.
Maybe it is I who is mistakin but the Great One was the Kreen (hive king ??) who was with the Avangion. But you'r right on one thing: the avangion of the past seem to be Oronis from the futur (farther then free year 11)
Maybe it is I who is mistakin but the Great One was the Kreen (hive king ??) who was with the Avangion. But you'r right on one thing: the avangion of the past seem to be Oronis from the futur (farther then free year 11)
I could wrong in that regard as well. Its been awhile since I've looked thru TKoA.
I could wrong in that regard as well. Its been awhile since I've looked thru TKoA.
TKoA likes to blur things here. However, the "Great One" basically is a Thri-Kreen leader, who was working with an Avangion. However, the way TKoA presents this, it's more like that the genetic memories have become jumbled up for many of the TK's, and they mix/confuse the two a lot.
TKoA likes to blur things here. However, the "Great One" basically is a Thri-Kreen leader, who was working with an Avangion. However, the way TKoA presents this, it's more like that the genetic memories have become jumbled up for many of the TK's, and they mix/confuse the two a lot.
I have a theory. What if the Avangion that everyone is speculating is Oronis visiting the past is in fact Korgunard? What if he had some how sent a portion of himself to the past in order to save himself from becoming Avangion-chow in the future? Far fetched I know, but I'm sure it could be elaborated into a feasible concept.
I have a theory. What if the Avangion that everyone is speculating is Oronis visiting the past is in fact Korgunard? What if he had some how sent a portion of himself to the past in order to save himself from becoming Avangion-chow in the future? Far fetched I know, but I'm sure it could be elaborated into a feasible concept.
Too weak for my tastes.
I still like the whole time traveling Oronis bit.
Too weak for my tastes.
I still like the whole time traveling Oronis bit.
I'd be more inclined to accept the Oronis theory if it were further developed as to the reason why he would be back in the past chilling with the Kreen.
I'd be more inclined to accept the Oronis theory if it were further developed as to the reason why he would be back in the past chilling with the Kreen.
I'd be curious to hear the same thing. Why exactly is it believed that this person might have been Oronis and not some proto-avangion? If Oronis did indeed have the ability to travel in time, whould he not implement more changes to make life in Athas better?
Hmm... It just popped into my head that since the person that traveled back in time did so in Saragar, it might have been Oronis trying to stop himself from killing off the Lizardman population.... Is that the reason?
It would also mean though that Oronis is very much aware of the existence of the Lizardmen in the last sea (therefore answering a post that was written some time ago).
I'd be curious to hear the same thing. Why exactly is it believed that this person might have been Oronis and not some proto-avangion? If Oronis did indeed have the ability to travel in time, whould he not implement more changes to make life in Athas better?
Hmm... It just popped into my head that since the person that traveled back in time did so in Saragar, it might have been Oronis trying to stop himself from killing off the Lizardman population.... Is that the reason?
It would also mean though that Oronis is very much aware of the existence of the Lizardmen in the last sea (therefore answering a post that was written some time ago).
I think someone speculated that Ononis could have went back in time meeting his past self as Keltis and convincing him of the follies of his ways. This causing Keltis to rethink his actions and thus having a change of heart. I find many holes in this theory myself.
I think someone speculated that Ononis could have went back in time meeting his past self as Keltis and convincing him of the follies of his ways. This causing Keltis to rethink his actions and thus having a change of heart. I find many holes in this theory myself.
the first one obviously being how could is FIRST future self come back to see him (Keltis) in the past to convince him in the first place??? I mean if in the future he became Oronis (thus an avangion) then why go back in the past to seek himself if his goal has already been achived.
Doesn't make sence at all.
It would of been better to say that a futur Keltis (thus still a defiler champion) who wanted more then just repent went back in his own past to convince young Keltis that his path was wrong.
Yap! that one I like
I think someone speculated that Ononis could have went back in time meeting his past self as Keltis and convincing him of the follies of his ways. This causing Keltis to rethink his actions and thus having a change of heart. I find many holes in this theory myself.
Let's see, considering it was my speculation/proposal, I'll have to tell you, you are *wrong* in your assessment here. And I think it's rather annoying that you claim it would be.
The reason for Oronis travelling into the past, I proposed, has to do with the final spell being cast for the Avangion process, based, in part, on what little there is in the 2E books.
Dragon Kings, page 104 (or Defilers & Preservers, page 86):
The material components for the spell are a diamond of no less than 10,000 gp value with which to capture the life-giving qualities of sunlight, a stone tomb large enough to hold the preserver's body, and a perfectly sealed glass case built around the tomb. The casting time is one round. Upon casting, the preserver/avangion, diamond, and stone tomb disappear, bound for planes unknown. The DM then secretly rolls 2d12-this is the number of months before the return of the preserver, in final avangion form, to the glass case. If the glass case is damaged in the meantime, the avangion is lost to oblivion. Only the DM knows how long the final stage takes. The player uses another character from the character tree in the interim.
Now, the problem inherent in this is, Athas is disconnected from the outer planes. My proposition was rather than travelling to "planes unknown", the Avangion slips back in time. To witness what had happened to the world, and get a better understanding how to fix it. Be able to observe the effects of defiling magic, as well as potentially understand, from immediate first-hand experience, what was changed in the earth, so that when they return, they can totally understand what they must do to revitalize the world.
Oronis, I proposed, is the first Avangion to achieve stage-4 metamorphosis. He has the distinct advantage of being a Champion of Rajaat, and I think he'll pretty much do everything he can in order to achieve this - even if it means he remains hidden from the other Sorcerer-Kings for the duration.
So, Oronis goes back, sees what was done, involves himself in the group of Thri-Kreen who rebelled against the Tohr-Kreen empire, freed themselves from slavery, and started their own community up in the Tablelands. Then the Dragon and Sorcerer-Kings catch wind of this, and send Keltis, possibly a couple others, to deal with the problem. Basically, I was trying to add in some sort of cyclic event - where Keltis, Sorcerer-King of Kurn, encounters Oronis the Avangion, and then that event causes Keltis' slow build of guilt for his actions, as well as the knowledge that his destiny is something grand, leading him to actually desire becoming this creature, redeems himself, invents the Avangion spell, and starts on the path.
This was covered in the Inconsistancy thread, which is probably several pages deep now, about the "Great One" (I think it was "Inconsistancy: The Great What?" or something like that).
Oronis, I proposed, is the first Avangion to achieve stage-4 metamorphosis.
You mean stage ten, right? Or have you athas.org people changed things that much?!!
Btw, do you guys have the original darksun writers giving you any info?You mean stage ten, right? Or have you athas.org people changed things that much?!!
Sorry. stage-4 was based on my own designs (basically, it's what the old Stage 10 was for 2E). And the new version from Athas.org will be rather different than the progression from 2E, because of various reasons. However, it will still be rather impressive, moreso in many respects, and will fit the Dark Sun flavor better, as well as the mechanics for 3.5E.
Let's see, considering it was my speculation/proposal, I'll have to tell you, you are *wrong* in your assessment here. And I think it's rather annoying that you claim it would be.
You mean someone having a differing view from your own is annoying and therefore makes a person wrong? Theres really no logic in that way of thinking.
The boards are all about people sharing opinions. Sometimes people won't share anothers point of view. If a person can't take constructive criticism without taking it personally then they really shouldn't share their ideas. I wasn't personally attacking you, and to be honest, didn't even remember that you came up with this theory. Thats all I will say on that. Now on to the topic at hand.
I just don't see it that way. If your going to travel back in time why stop at confronting and guilting your past self when you could say.... I don't know.... stop the entire Cleansing War from ever happening at all and thus sparing Athas its dark future?
Personally I find that being able to travel back or forward in time at will thru a spell or a power sort of boarder-line cheese. However thats just IMO.
I just don't see it that way. If your going to travel back in time why stop at confronting and guilting your past self when you could say.... I don't know.... stop the entire Cleansing War from ever happening at all and thus sparing Athas its dark future?
And that, is such an easy task to complete, let me tell you....
One Avangion against himself, and the other champions, not to mention Rajaat.
Yeah, I can see Oronis winning that one, no really.
You mean someone having a differing view from your own is annoying and therefore makes a person wrong? Theres really no logic in that way of thinking.
No, I mean when you staw-man someone's idea:
I think someone speculated that Ononis could have went back in time meeting his past self as Keltis and convincing him of the follies of his ways. This causing Keltis to rethink his actions and thus having a change of heart. I find many holes in this theory myself.
And mispresent the idea, that is wrong. It's not that you had a differing view, it's that what you claimed to be the view of the person who presented the original time-travelling idea (me), you wrote it rather insulting, belittling the idea. That was what was wrong. Further, attempting to change the subject to claim that what I said was an attack against your opinion, was incorrect as well.
The boards are all about people sharing opinions. Sometimes people won't share anothers point of view. If a person can't take constructive criticism without taking it personally then they really shouldn't share their ideas. I wasn't personally attacking you, and to be honest, didn't even remember that you came up with this theory. Thats all I will say on that.
Well, I'm saying you can write something to be inflammatory, and write something to not be inflammatory. You didn't remember the full extent of the idea I had presented, and yet attempted to be an authority on the subject. That, in and of itself, is wrong. Are you seriously trying to start another argument? Are you even aware that this is the second time in this very thread you've attempted to derail a thread to pick a fight?
Now on to the topic at hand.
I just don't see it that way. If your going to travel back in time why stop at confronting and guilting your past self when you could say.... I don't know.... stop the entire Cleansing War from ever happening at all and thus sparing Athas its dark future?
Umm.... then you didn't catch the idea. That was an incidental element of the idea, something I tacked on, but most definitely, not the thrust of the idea. The idea is that rather than the Avangion going into the outer planes which is a virtual impossibility in Dark Sun (because the Outer Planes are cut off, as per Defilers & Preservers), I had them be forced to relive past events. Keltis/Oronis could have many reasons he could not stop the events of the Cleansing Wars - he could have very well tried, and failed repeatedly, which to me, would be *very* Dark sun themed.
Personally I find that being able to travel back or forward in time at will thru a spell or a power sort of boarder-line cheese. However thats just IMO.
I never said it was at will. I said it was forced by the Avangion spell, as a method which the Avangion is supposed to learn from how Athas was damaged, and then potentially figure out how to repair the world. That was the full theme of the idea, why do you insist on attempting to confuse the actual theme of my idea, with a small, rather insignificant, incidental thing I added as merely a thought on the side that even I'm not 100% confortable with, and have explained as such whenever I present it? Why fixate on the pebble when the boulder is the important thing?
I just don't see it that way. If your going to travel back in time why stop at confronting and guilting your past self when you could say.... I don't know.... stop the entire Cleansing War from ever happening at all and thus sparing Athas its dark future?
That probably wouldn't work. Changing huge chunks of the past could very well endanger many other chunks... even if Oronis would, let's say, go back and kill Rajaat's mother before he was born and we don't take into account the paradoxes that would bring (because it's fantasy), the changes could still very well be catastrophic, but then, Oronis wouldn't be around anymore to change them (or wouldn't have the power... no magic... to do it). I don't believe someone as wise as Oronis would risk such a folly. And with the psionic and magic powers he has, he probably checked a couple of future posibilities to make sure his actions in the past wouldn't cause too much damage for the future.
And by the way:Susceptibility is not a quality.
PB
Don't you mean Korgunaard was his second?
Coffee. There was too much blood in my caffiene stream...
Well, I'm saying you can write something to be inflammatory, and write something to not be inflammatory. You didn't remember the full extent of the idea I had presented, and yet attempted to be an authority on the subject. That, in and of itself, is wrong. Are you seriously trying to start another argument? Are you even aware that this is the second time in this very thread you've attempted to derail a thread to pick a fight?
You know, I had this huge reply typed from being all heated due your over sensitivity and reaction to people disagreeing with you but decided to delete it. This really isn't worth it to me to pollute this board with pointless drivel. Yours or mine.
All I stated was that I remembered someone came up with a theory I didn't necessarily agree with. I'm sorry that your psychosis took this so negatively. It was a mere statement nothing more. Let it go. You've already made this more to be than it really was.
You know, I had this huge reply typed from being all heated due your over sensitivity and reaction to people disagreeing with you but decided to delete it. This really isn't worth it to me to pollute this board with pointless drivel. Yours or mine.
All I stated was that I remembered someone came up with a theory I didn't necessarily agree with. I'm sorry that your psychosis took this so negatively. It was a mere statement nothing more. Let it go. You've already made this more to be than it really was.
Yes, go ahead, and make sure to make yourself seem to be the superior here. Insult someone's idea, when that is pointed out, then insult the person directly, when that is pointed out, then claim to be the one in the right. Great strategy. Just seems that you may still be somewhat miffed by my comment from the beginning of the thread, which was in jest, and even the topic's original author saw it, but you felt like you needed to be big brother and attempt to correct me. When that didn't work, you claim authority on my idea, and totally misrepresent it in the efforts to help verify your own idea, which was wrong. If you had represented the idea correctly, then that would not have been a problem. Then you equate my telling you this as being against any other opinions, when it's just a matter of that you misrepresented my idea as if you were authorative, and which is what I pointed out. Anyway, back to the topic at hand (I really do like talking about Avangions anyway, very interested in people's ideas on them)...
Yes, go ahead, and make sure to make yourself seem to be the superior here. Insult someone's idea, when that is pointed out, then insult the person directly, when that is pointed out, then claim to be the one in the right. Great strategy. Just seems that you may still be somewhat miffed by my comment from the beginning of the thread, which was in jest, and even the topic's original author saw it, but you felt like you needed to be big brother and attempt to correct me. When that didn't work, you claim authority on my idea, and totally misrepresent it in the efforts to help verify your own idea, which was wrong. If you had represented the idea correctly, then that would not have been a problem. Then you equate my telling you this as being against any other opinions, when it's just a matter of that you misrepresented my idea as if you were authorative, and which is what I pointed out. Anyway, back to the topic at hand (I really do like talking about Avangions anyway, very interested in people's ideas on them)...
That was days ago. Appreantly your the one that hasn't gotten over it.
I think someone speculated that Ononis could have went back in time meeting his past self as Keltis and convincing him of the follies of his ways. This causing Keltis to rethink his actions and thus having a change of heart. I find many holes in this theory myself.
Its beyond me how this harmless statement set you off. At this point I really don't care. I didn't claim to be authority on it. This was said in a manner of fact type tone in passing.
But whatever. I'm done contributing to your nonsense. I'll be the better man and apologize for you misconstruing my post. No harm was meant by it.
And that, is such an easy task to complete, let me tell you....
One Avangion against himself, and the other champions, not to mention Rajaat.
Yeah, I can see Oronis winning that one, no really.
And thats exactly how I said he could circumvent the Cleasning War thu time travel huh?
Wow, That must have been one great theory. To bad I never posted anything that remotely stated thats how it could have happened.
Enough. Play nice and don't get hurt.
Just defending myself Brother. Apparently its a tembo eat tembo kind of board. ;)
[thunder!] [flash!] [explosions!] [the whole Poké-stuff!]
No tembo can match an Athasian Pikachu...
