What really happened to Raistlin? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What really happened to Raistlin?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
archmage
Oct 08, 2004 12:47:54 Going over the end of Dragons of Summer Flame, and seeing that the "Fizban" and "Raistlin" the characters see leaving are just illusions created by the Dark Queen, that leaves me with one question.
What really happened to Raistlin during the Summer of Chaos? We know he's truly dead by the War of Souls, but what happened before then, what with Palin going to so much trouble to free him from the Abyss?
#2
zombiegleemax
Oct 08, 2004 12:54:48 Raistlin never really was in the Abyss, Palin merely believed he was as part of the Test.

The gods allowed Raistlin to move on after his death, rather than leaving his soul consigned to the Dark Queen's clutches. But he was unable to do so while his other half, his twin, could join him, which wasn't possible until the end of the War of Souls. So he was an active spirit hanging about waiting much like Flint was waiting for Tas.
#3
sephzero
Oct 08, 2004 13:03:13 Raistlin been dead since the end of Legends as confirmed by Weis, so his spirit has been hanging around for his brother by "Sleeping" the time away until Palin managed to awaken Raistlin for the Summer Flame for help. As a result of being a spirit, he continued to linger until the whole War of Soul forced him to take action again.
#4
brimstone
Oct 08, 2004 13:58:04 Well, he hadn't moved on through the Gate of Souls. He (along with the rest of the Heroes of the Lance, I've gathered) waited with the gods for the rest of them to pass on so they could all travel on together. So, when the world is stolen, Raistlin is still with...well...Lunitari most likely. Definately dead, but not moving on through the River of Souls...waiting for his brother.

That's my take anyway.
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 09, 2004 9:34:58 From what I read in DoSF he did spend time in the Abyss. He was eviscerated by Takhisis every day for trying to overthrow her. Then Taky was so busy during the Chaos War, from what we now know making final preparations to steal Krynn, that she neglected Raist and he was able to somehow free himself and open the portal. I believe he was able to open the portal due to the effects of Chaos blurring the rules and laws of magic. By opening the portal he allowed Tas and Palin into the Abyss to eavesdrop of the gods council meeting. After Taky stole the world he was stuck in krynnspace, the gray, the ethereal, or whatever it's called because he could not pass through the gates until his his other half, Caramon, joined him. At least that's my take on it based on everything I have read. Of course, there is always that extremely small chance that I could be wrong. :D
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 10, 2004 23:01:26
From what I read in DoSF he did spend time in the Abyss. He was eviscerated by Takhisis every day for trying to overthrow her. Then Taky was so busy during the Chaos War, from what we now know making final preparations to steal Krynn, that she neglected Raist and he was able to somehow free himself and open the portal. I believe he was able to open the portal due to the effects of Chaos blurring the rules and laws of magic. By opening the portal he allowed Tas and Palin into the Abyss to eavesdrop of the gods council meeting. After Taky stole the world he was stuck in krynnspace, the gray, the ethereal, or whatever it's called because he could not pass through the gates until his his other half, Caramon, joined him. At least that's my take on it based on everything I have read. Of course, there is always that extremely small chance that I could be wrong. :D

No...you see, in the novella in The Magic of Krynn and The Second Generation in which Palin takes his Test, it was an illusion created by Dalamar. At least, that's what it was supposed to be. In reality, it was the real Raistlin, although the whole Test was still otherwise an illusion. Raistlin is not really being tortured in the Abyss, his soul was redeemed. Now, he was in the Abyss during the Chaos War...but everybody was in the Abyss at the time. That was where the showdown with Chaos was to take place, and considering even the dead fought against the legions of Chaos, it is no surprise that all the dead were there, too. If I'm not mistaken, Tanis and Sturm where there, too. Do you think *THEIR* souls went to the Abyss?
#7
frostdawn
Oct 12, 2004 12:06:10
No...you see, in the novella in The Magic of Krynn and The Second Generation in which Palin takes his Test, it was an illusion created by Dalamar. At least, that's what it was supposed to be. In reality, it was the real Raistlin, although the whole Test was still otherwise an illusion. Raistlin is not really being tortured in the Abyss, his soul was redeemed. Now, he was in the Abyss during the Chaos War...but everybody was in the Abyss at the time. That was where the showdown with Chaos was to take place, and considering even the dead fought against the legions of Chaos, it is no surprise that all the dead were there, too. If I'm not mistaken, Tanis and Sturm where there, too. Do you think *THEIR* souls went to the Abyss?

Hmm, I always thought that after Raistlin entered the Abyss, he wasn't seen or heard from again until DoSF. True, Tak eviscerated him daily, but she also resurrected him daily as well (so she could keep torturing him). He had escaped Tak's clutches for a little while, so what I wondered was, couldn't he have come back into the world since at the time he was still 'alive'? I don't recall him ever finally dying. He went from being alive in the Abyss, and overlooking the gods' meeting about Chaos, then we see him as a spirit in the War of Souls. Am I missing something here?

As for the showdown, it was my understanding that the gods fought Chaos in the Abyss, while the mortals (KoS, KoT, dragons and others) fought Chaos on Krynn; sort of a battle on 2 fronts (Sargonnas even said this much in "Reavers of the Blood Sea") Otherwise, Palin, Usha, the knights and dragons would have all been trapped inside the Abyss after Chaos was defeated and the planet was moved by Tak.
#8
frostdawn
Oct 12, 2004 16:54:00 Oh yeah, and Jacen Solo- I like your signature. A person in our group had a cumulative +12 to attack with her own bonuses, enchantments, and magical weapons. Target # to hit was like a 18 or 19. She missed her attack like 4 or 5 times in a row, and only needed around a 6 or better. Talk about missing a roll.
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 12, 2004 18:37:50 Well, in answer to your questions...between Summer Flame and the Legends, Raistlin made a brief cameo in Palin's Test. At the beginning of the story, Caramon states that he was given a vision by Paladine right after the Legends books, in which is showed Raistlin ascending to Heaven. But, the wizards told him that they had evidence that Raistlin was trapped in the Abyss, being killed and resurected daily by Taky. So, they sent Palin into the Abyss, he brought Raistlin out, and Raist tried to make him evil. Palin refuses, and he wakes up. It was all an illusion creaed by Dalamar, and it was his Test. He passed. Then, it flips to Raistlin's laboratory, which Dalamar had sealed, even from himself. Raist was in there, just like in the Test, and he says to himself somehting along the lines that Dalamar had meant to create an illusion, but he had instead got the real Raistlin, who went along with the act. He was proud of Palin, so he told the Guardian to give him the Staff of Magius. Then, he went back into Heaven, until the Chaos War. There were two fronts, in the Abyss and on Krynn. There were many people fighting the minions of Chaos on Krynn, but Chaos himself was in the Abyss. So, the gods and the souls of the dead came down in the Abyss to fight him. Also, a few Solamnic and Dark Knights, and their dragon mounts, plus Palin, Tas, and Usha, went down to the Abyss through a gate that had opened in the Blood Sea Maelstrom. After the battle, they were allowed to leave, and I doubt Taky was strong enough to stop them anyway.
#10
zombiegleemax
Oct 12, 2004 18:42:48 Margaret stated that Raistlin was given peace in death after Legends. None of this torment from Takhisis after all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 archmage Oct 08, 2004 12:47:54	Going over the end of Dragons of Summer Flame, and seeing that the "Fizban" and "Raistlin" the characters see leaving are just illusions created by the Dark Queen, that leaves me with one question. What really happened to Raistlin during the Summer of Chaos? We know he's truly dead by the War of Souls, but what happened before then, what with Palin going to so much trouble to free him from the Abyss?
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 08, 2004 12:54:48	Raistlin never really was in the Abyss, Palin merely believed he was as part of the Test. The gods allowed Raistlin to move on after his death, rather than leaving his soul consigned to the Dark Queen's clutches. But he was unable to do so while his other half, his twin, could join him, which wasn't possible until the end of the War of Souls. So he was an active spirit hanging about waiting much like Flint was waiting for Tas.
#3 sephzero Oct 08, 2004 13:03:13	Raistlin been dead since the end of Legends as confirmed by Weis, so his spirit has been hanging around for his brother by "Sleeping" the time away until Palin managed to awaken Raistlin for the Summer Flame for help. As a result of being a spirit, he continued to linger until the whole War of Soul forced him to take action again.
#4 brimstone Oct 08, 2004 13:58:04	Well, he hadn't moved on through the Gate of Souls. He (along with the rest of the Heroes of the Lance, I've gathered) waited with the gods for the rest of them to pass on so they could all travel on together. So, when the world is stolen, Raistlin is still with...well...Lunitari most likely. Definately dead, but not moving on through the River of Souls...waiting for his brother. That's my take anyway.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 09, 2004 9:34:58	From what I read in DoSF he did spend time in the Abyss. He was eviscerated by Takhisis every day for trying to overthrow her. Then Taky was so busy during the Chaos War, from what we now know making final preparations to steal Krynn, that she neglected Raist and he was able to somehow free himself and open the portal. I believe he was able to open the portal due to the effects of Chaos blurring the rules and laws of magic. By opening the portal he allowed Tas and Palin into the Abyss to eavesdrop of the gods council meeting. After Taky stole the world he was stuck in krynnspace, the gray, the ethereal, or whatever it's called because he could not pass through the gates until his his other half, Caramon, joined him. At least that's my take on it based on everything I have read. Of course, there is always that extremely small chance that I could be wrong. :D
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 10, 2004 23:01:26	From what I read in DoSF he did spend time in the Abyss. He was eviscerated by Takhisis every day for trying to overthrow her. Then Taky was so busy during the Chaos War, from what we now know making final preparations to steal Krynn, that she neglected Raist and he was able to somehow free himself and open the portal. I believe he was able to open the portal due to the effects of Chaos blurring the rules and laws of magic. By opening the portal he allowed Tas and Palin into the Abyss to eavesdrop of the gods council meeting. After Taky stole the world he was stuck in krynnspace, the gray, the ethereal, or whatever it's called because he could not pass through the gates until his his other half, Caramon, joined him. At least that's my take on it based on everything I have read. Of course, there is always that extremely small chance that I could be wrong. :D No...you see, in the novella in The Magic of Krynn and The Second Generation in which Palin takes his Test, it was an illusion created by Dalamar. At least, that's what it was supposed to be. In reality, it was the real Raistlin, although the whole Test was still otherwise an illusion. Raistlin is not really being tortured in the Abyss, his soul was redeemed. Now, he was in the Abyss during the Chaos War...but everybody was in the Abyss at the time. That was where the showdown with Chaos was to take place, and considering even the dead fought against the legions of Chaos, it is no surprise that all the dead were there, too. If I'm not mistaken, Tanis and Sturm where there, too. Do you think THEIR souls went to the Abyss?
#7 frostdawn Oct 12, 2004 12:06:10	No...you see, in the novella in The Magic of Krynn and The Second Generation in which Palin takes his Test, it was an illusion created by Dalamar. At least, that's what it was supposed to be. In reality, it was the real Raistlin, although the whole Test was still otherwise an illusion. Raistlin is not really being tortured in the Abyss, his soul was redeemed. Now, he was in the Abyss during the Chaos War...but everybody was in the Abyss at the time. That was where the showdown with Chaos was to take place, and considering even the dead fought against the legions of Chaos, it is no surprise that all the dead were there, too. If I'm not mistaken, Tanis and Sturm where there, too. Do you think THEIR souls went to the Abyss? Hmm, I always thought that after Raistlin entered the Abyss, he wasn't seen or heard from again until DoSF. True, Tak eviscerated him daily, but she also resurrected him daily as well (so she could keep torturing him). He had escaped Tak's clutches for a little while, so what I wondered was, couldn't he have come back into the world since at the time he was still 'alive'? I don't recall him ever finally dying. He went from being alive in the Abyss, and overlooking the gods' meeting about Chaos, then we see him as a spirit in the War of Souls. Am I missing something here? As for the showdown, it was my understanding that the gods fought Chaos in the Abyss, while the mortals (KoS, KoT, dragons and others) fought Chaos on Krynn; sort of a battle on 2 fronts (Sargonnas even said this much in "Reavers of the Blood Sea") Otherwise, Palin, Usha, the knights and dragons would have all been trapped inside the Abyss after Chaos was defeated and the planet was moved by Tak.
#8 frostdawn Oct 12, 2004 16:54:00	Oh yeah, and Jacen Solo- I like your signature. A person in our group had a cumulative +12 to attack with her own bonuses, enchantments, and magical weapons. Target # to hit was like a 18 or 19. She missed her attack like 4 or 5 times in a row, and only needed around a 6 or better. Talk about missing a roll.
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2004 18:37:50	Well, in answer to your questions...between Summer Flame and the Legends, Raistlin made a brief cameo in Palin's Test. At the beginning of the story, Caramon states that he was given a vision by Paladine right after the Legends books, in which is showed Raistlin ascending to Heaven. But, the wizards told him that they had evidence that Raistlin was trapped in the Abyss, being killed and resurected daily by Taky. So, they sent Palin into the Abyss, he brought Raistlin out, and Raist tried to make him evil. Palin refuses, and he wakes up. It was all an illusion creaed by Dalamar, and it was his Test. He passed. Then, it flips to Raistlin's laboratory, which Dalamar had sealed, even from himself. Raist was in there, just like in the Test, and he says to himself somehting along the lines that Dalamar had meant to create an illusion, but he had instead got the real Raistlin, who went along with the act. He was proud of Palin, so he told the Guardian to give him the Staff of Magius. Then, he went back into Heaven, until the Chaos War. There were two fronts, in the Abyss and on Krynn. There were many people fighting the minions of Chaos on Krynn, but Chaos himself was in the Abyss. So, the gods and the souls of the dead came down in the Abyss to fight him. Also, a few Solamnic and Dark Knights, and their dragon mounts, plus Palin, Tas, and Usha, went down to the Abyss through a gate that had opened in the Blood Sea Maelstrom. After the battle, they were allowed to leave, and I doubt Taky was strong enough to stop them anyway.
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2004 18:42:48	Margaret stated that Raistlin was given peace in death after Legends. None of this torment from Takhisis after all.