Total Population of Ansalon: 3,896,071
Humans: 2,212,786 (56.8 % of total population)
Dwarves: 333,602 (8.6 %)
Ogres: 309,650 (7.9 %)
Minotaurs: 306,250 (7.9 %)
Kender: 162,725 (4.2 %)
Elves: 131,241 (3.4 %)
Goblinoids: 115,203 (3.0 %)
Gnomes: 67,861 (1.7 %)
Draconians: 51,548 (1.3 %)
Kyrie: 48,475 (1.2 %)
Centaurs: 27,507 (0.7 %)
Selected trivia:
-Solamnia accounts for 18.5 % of Ansalon’s population.
-Solamnia accounts for 30 % of Ansalon’s humans.
-Sancrist accounts for 87.5 % of Ansalon’s gnomes.
-Icereach accounts for 0.09 % of Ansalon’s population.
-Thorbardin accounts for 32.7 % of Ansalon’s dwarves.
-Qualinesti accounts for 1.1 % of Ansalon’s population.
Man, is Ansalon underpopulated or what? That number must be cut in half now after the conflicts after the War of the Lance.
I agree there'd be some serious population depletion post-War of the Lance ... considering the Chaos War, the Dragon Purge, the War of Souls, the Tarmak invasion of the Plains of Dust, and the Minotaur invasion of Silvanesti.
What surprised me about the figures was how among the non-humans there was no one race with a commanding edge in population. The dwarves, ogres, and minotaurs are effectively tied in terms of population numbers. For some reason I had expected the dwarves to be more numerous, somewhere along the lines of 20% of the total population of Ansalon.
Man, is Ansalon underpopulated or what? That number must be cut in half now after the conflicts after the War of the Lance.
You know since the creators don't care about the population of Ansalon I've started not to care either. I just do what I want now. If I need an army of dwarves I just create one. It's easier that way sometimes.
You know since the creators don't care about the population of Ansalon I've started not to care either. I just do what I want now. If I need an army of dwarves I just create one. It's easier that way sometimes.
Um. The fact that they went to such detail to give us these population statistics shows that they do care, since so many fans on these boards asked for just such a detailed breakdown after glimpsing the DLCS and AoM geography sections. Sov. Press did an excellent job in responding to their fans.
Is that the population befor or after the war of dragonlance? Then I ask me how many from the 51000 Draconians are Noble? Or are the 50000 the complete Troops of Draconian from the Dragonarmy or the last Troops the survive the war?
As far as I know, the population figures depict Ansalon as it is in 349 or 350 AC since Silvanesti is already corrupted by the dragon orb and has been evacuated. The noble draconians were not created until the end of 351 AC and the beginning of 352 AC, so they are not counted in the 51,000+ draconian figure given above.
But after the Second Cataclysm, I think the population would take another dip - especially in the "dragon realms". Places like Ergoth might have managed to have a further increase, however.
The roughly 30 years of peace between the War of the Lance and the Summer of Chaos would have led to a population increase, I think.
But after the Second Cataclysm, I think the population would take another dip - especially in the "dragon realms". Places like Ergoth might have managed to have a further increase, however.
I'd imagine regions like Abanasinia also would have greatly increased in population, what with refugees from neighboring Qualinesti, the flooded lands of the New Swamp, and frozen Southern Ergoth. Hylo would fall into this same category given the Kender Flight.
We also know that Tarsis experienced something of a renewal in the Age of Mortals. Its population went from 4,300 circa the War of the Lance to 14,500 in the Age of Mortals.
Most every other region would more than likely have seen a net reduction in population.
You know since the creators don't care about the population of Ansalon I've started not to care either. I just do what I want now. If I need an army of dwarves I just create one. It's easier that way sometimes.
Actually my point is that we waited so long for this information and now it seems the world is under populated. The continent remains very small and under populated on top of that. This means less of everything, from prestige class institutions outside the classics (KoS, TOHS, ect,) and forget epic armies since they would have to be small. I'm just a bit disappointed.
In South Ergoth have Silvanesti and Qualinesi his own Capitals. But by the population the Qualinesti are away. Then we look Silvanesti and Kagonesti. Where are the Qualinesti? Is the capital empty? Intresting that double so many Silvanesti live in South Ergoth as Kagonesti and the Kagonesti live in 4 more Countrys (one is Qualinesti).
Actually my point is that we waited so long for this information and now it seems the world is under populated. The continent remains very small and under populated on top of that. This means less of everything, from prestige class institutions outside the classics (KoS, TOHS, ect,) and forget epic armies since they would have to be small. I'm just a bit disappointed.
Well, I don't know. Just from reading the novels you get the feeling that Ansalon is not very populated.
It sounds reasonable to me.
I have a Question. As i watch the book for the question why are live not so many Golbins at Ansalon. Then we found more Silvanesti as Golbins. I look at South Ergoth. And now i ask me is this a Bug?
In South Ergoth have Silvanesti and Qualinesi his own Capitals. But by the population the Qualinesti are away. Then we look Silvanesti and Kagonesti. Where are the Qualinesti? Is the capital empty? Intresting that double so many Silvanesti live in South Ergoth as Kagonesti and the Kagonesti live in 4 more Countrys (one is Qualinesti).
There are double as many Silvanesti in Southern Ergoth because virtually all of the Silvanesti have fled there from their homeland. The Qualinesti are still mostly in Qualinesti, though they're preparing to evacuate to Southern Ergoth as well.
In theory, that means, divied by 40 (which generally is how many draconians a good dragon egg spawns) means about 1,288 Good Dragon Egg's were destroyed to create them.
"I would say it's well under 10 million, possibly under 5 million."
I guess I was pretty spot on.
I just thought I'd be a little smug here and say that, way back on a thread here in January, link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=162189&highlight=population, I said the following:
"I would say it's well under 10 million, possibly under 5 million."
I guess I was pretty spot on.
You have permission to feel smug, not that you need it.
Cheers,
Cam
I just thought I'd be a little smug here and say that, way back on a thread here in January, link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=162189&highlight=population, I said the following:
"I would say it's well under 10 million, possibly under 5 million."
I guess I was pretty spot on.
Good call man. Many people in that thread thought the figure was more along the lines of 25 million (I believe I was one of them, though the thread was so long I didn't bother to search for my own post(s)) ...
On a somewhat related note, the continent of Khorvaire in Eberron is some 4,000 miles east-west and 3,000 miles north-south and has a population of 18 million plus. Lots of people there consider that continent underpopulated as well.
Now the advantages to having a smaller population are many. I disagree with Baron that it makes the storyline less epic. You don't have to have tens of thousands of warriors being slaughtered everyday to have an epic war. In fact that was one of the problems that we had up until recently. Armies suddenly appearing out of nowhere to be slaugtered. It happened to Dark Knights in Book 1 of the Minotaur Trilogy, and it happened in the WoS book "Dragons of a Lost Star". How did that army "bigger than any since the Chaos War" suddenly come from?
Since the armies are now smaller, and dependent on nations with populations to draw them from, a PC who gathers a couple hundred men together is a war chief of considerable stature. In Faerun he isn't worth a bucket of spit... but in Ansalon such a man can be king. So is that less epic? I think not.
Plus, if we assume that 25 million is the number of Ansalon's population before the Cataclysm... then we can assume that there are limitless ruins and strongholds to explore.
If we assume 3 million now, suddenly communities and settlements are a lot more isolated. Now it makes sense as to why people from Abanisania didn't know about Tarsis. Given the isolation, it makes sense as to why rumours of an army massing to the north were just rumours. I mean, there was just over 3.5 million people within the borders of present-day france in 415 BC. Back in those days when the only cities present-day france had at all were on the southern coast.
Imagine then what a juggernaut 51,000 draconian soldiers would have on such place. Then add in a similar amount of goblins, human mercenaries and ogres. Then add a few dozen dragons. I can't even conceive how horrifying a war machine that is. All coming down on these isolated communities.
The elves were sane to run. A divine miracle was needed to save mortals. The only thing that could have defeated the dragonarmy was the dragonarmy. Now that's epic.
Anyway, since monsters and monstrous humanoids infest Ansalon like fleas on a dog, I imagine there is about 2 million more of those not on the official census. Y'know the sligs, the kobolds, the hobgoblins, the goblins, the Centaurs, the Tayfolk, the Disir, etc. Even after the Dragonarmies splinter apart, the forests and fields of Ansalon are suddenly a lot more threatening.
So I say embrace the small population. Let the wide open spaces filled with evil creatures keep your swords sharp. Let the endless ruins spark your lust for treasure. Let your stronghold be an oasis of safety in a war torn world, so that when your character dies people wish that he would awaken from his sleep to lead them again.
Oh... btw, Iltharanos... you've crunched the numbers for many of the races and nationalities. Can you tell me, if all the wizards above 5th level are WoHS... approximately how many Wizards of High Sorcery are there, using the tables in the DMG?
Anyway, since monsters and monstrous humanoids infest Ansalon like fleas on a dog, I imagine there is about 2 million more of those not on the official census. Y'know the sligs, the kobolds, the hobgoblins, the goblins, the Centaurs, the Tayfolk, the Disir, etc. Even after the Dragonarmies splinter apart, the forests and fields of Ansalon are suddenly a lot more threatening.
Sligs were actually included in the population totals, at least for the Goodlund region. The following critters were included in at least one region's population totals: Hobgoblins, goblins, ettins, giants, gnolls, lizardfolk, thanoi. Of course that still leaves tons of other critters that are listed in the BoK's encounter tables that wouldn't likely fall into the "Others" category and thus aren't included in the total Ansalon population given above: Trolls, disir, kobolds, magori, tayfolk, dire animals, aranea, naga, undead, dopplegangers, treants, dryads, nymphs, lamias, owlbears, stirges, kuo-toa, sahuagin, etc. etc.
Oh... btw, Iltharanos... you've crunched the numbers for many of the races and nationalities. Can you tell me, if all the wizards above 5th level are WoHS... approximately how many Wizards of High Sorcery are there, using the tables in the DMG?
According to the War of the Lance, there are the following number of city classes on Ansalon:
Metropolis: 6
Large City: 15
Small City: 18
Using just these settlement populations and assuming average rolls generated for each community, here are the approximate breakdowns:
Metropolis Wizards:
6,144 lvl 6
3,072 lvl 7
1,536 lvl 8
768 lvl 9
384 lvl 10
192 lvl 11
96 lvl 12
48 lvl 13
24 lvl 14
Large City Wizards:
1,440 lvl 6
720 lvl 7
360 lvl 8
180 lvl 9
90 lvl 10
45 lvl 11
Small City Wizards:
144 lvl 6
72 lvl 7
36 lvl 8
Totals
Lvl 6 = 7,728
Lvl 7 = 7,864
Lvl 8 = 1,932
Lvl 9 = 948
Lvl 10 = 474
Lvl 11 = 237
Lvl 12 = 96
Lvl 13 = 48
Lvl 14 = 24
Total number of Wizards of High Sorcery (assuming lvl 6+ = Wizard of High Sorcery) = 19,351
Sligs were actually included in the population totals, at least for the Goodlund region. The following critters were included in at least one region's population totals: Hobgoblins, goblins, ettins, giants, gnolls, lizardfolk, thanoi.
Yep, but they are likely in other places beside where they are mentioned. For example, not all the goblins are in Throt. They are in Ergoth, Solamnia, Icewall, Abanisania and Paladine knows where else too.
Of course that still leaves tons of other critters that are listed in the BoK's encounter tables that wouldn't likely fall into the "Others" category and thus aren't included in the total Ansalon population given above: Trolls, disir, kobolds, magori, tayfolk, dire animals, aranea, naga, undead, dopplegangers, treants, dryads, nymphs, lamias, owlbears, stirges, kuo-toa, sahuagin, etc. etc.
Yep, something has to be where the people aren't.
According to the War of the Lance, there are the following number of city classes on Ansalon:
Metropolis: 6
Large City: 15
Small City: 18
That seems like an large amount of cities for 4 million people. I guess though if we assume 13th century tech before the cataclysm (and mostly retained in terms of non-monumental technologies) such as the horse collar and the furrow plow then it could be possible. I'd have to see how much of a general population is in the places with lots of cities.
Using just these settlement populations and assuming average rolls generated for each community, here are the approximate breakdowns:
How are you generating these numbers? It is different than I would do it, but it looks more accurate.
Total number of Wizards of High Sorcery (assuming lvl 6+ = Wizard of High Sorcery) = 19,351
*whistles* That's a lot of wizards. I guess this means that the WoHS have a lot to answer for by driving all those kender wizards mad by refusing to train them in the ability to use their magic.
There's been at least one official post warning not to use the DMG class breakdown by population rules. It's not suited to Dragonlance.
Hey, I said that too back in that old thread!
I'm even less crazy than guessing the population correctly! Who wants to give me a cookie?
Seriously though, with the information presented in the Kingpriest Trilogy, the numbers for the Orders has never numbered more than a few hundred, as far as I can tell. And with the Cataclysm and Age of Despair, I would say this number has dwindled a bit as well by the time of the WotL.
How are you generating these numbers? It is different than I would do it, but it looks more accurate.
I'm following the community NPC generation tables in the DMG (using average rolls each time) and applying those tabled level results to the listed Metropoli, large cities, and small cities.
*whistles* That's a lot of wizards. I guess this means that the WoHS have a lot to answer for by driving all those kender wizards mad by refusing to train them in the ability to use their magic.
Hehe, yeah.
There's been at least one official post warning not to use the DMG class breakdown by population rules. It's not suited to Dragonlance.
Seriously though, with the information presented in the Kingpriest Trilogy, the numbers for the Orders has never numbered more than a few hundred, as far as I can tell. And with the Cataclysm and Age of Despair, I would say this number has dwindled a bit as well by the time of the WotL.
Yep, I know they're not appropriate for Dragonlance, never said they were either. It was merely number crunching using the DMG guidelines to see how many theoretical wizards of high sorcery we would get using the known major urban centers as a rough measure. A look at the top ten most populous regions in Ansalon shows exactly why those DMG tables can't be taken at face value.
Regions ranked in order of most populous to least populous, out of 27 total regions:
1. Solamnia
2. Blood Sea Isles
3. Khur
4. Nordmaar
5. Taman Busuk
6. Southern Ergoth
7. Northern Ergoth
8. Abanasinia
9. Goodlund
10. Blode
The top three regions are known to despise arcane spellcasters and comprise ~ 40% of Ansalon's population, so wizard numbers in those regions are undoubtedly much lower than the DMG tables would indicate. Goodlund and Blode are both regions that are also unlikely to produce many, if any, Wizards of High Sorcery. In contrast, Abanasinia likely has the highest percentage of wizards in its population, though even then it probably isn't approaching the levels indicated in the DMG.
Interestingly, the number of wizards indicated using the DMG tables puts the WoHS at 0.5 % of the total continental population, or 1 in 200. To better represent Ansalon we could say that ... it's more like 1 in 2000 are WoHS as a standard. For the top three most populous regions we could even say the number is more like 1 in 20000 are WoHS.
So we get 77 WoHS for the top three regions and 1,161 WoHS for all other regions combined, for a grand total of 1,238 WoHS. Even this number is likely too high, but it's more in line with what we see in the novels.
So we get 77 WoHS for the top three regions and 1,161 WoHS for all other regions combined, for a grand total of 1,238 WoHS. Even this number is likely too high, but it's more in line with what we see in the novels.
Right. There are two main reasons why the DMG system is unsuitable for determining numbers of spellcaster classes. The first is that there are simply far, far fewer heroic spellcasters in Ansalon than the standard D&D population would indicate. Second, at least in the case of WoHS, there's the Test. Standard D&D doesn't have a fatal pass/fail Test in between 4th and 5th level, so that on top of the fact that there aren't many wizards, those that seek to cast 3rd level spells face lethal risk in undertaking the Test.
I'll say this clearly - the population figures used in the WOTL and other products were never intended to be used to determine such things as number of wizards, clerics, druids, or other spellcasters using the DMG charts. It's interesting to crunch the numbers, but they're not accurate by any means.
Cheers,
Cam
Goblinoids: 115,203 (3.0 %) 15 Country of 27:
Abanaisia: 7% Goblin
Dragonisle: 3% Goblin
Eastwilde: Goblinoide 7%
Goodlund: 4 % Goblin
Kern; 2 % Goblin
Khurolis: 6% , Hobgoblin 3 % Goblin
Khur: 3% Goblin
Kern: 2% Goblin
Lemish: Hobgoblin 15%
Nord Ergoth: Goblin 10% here is the Gobincapital
Plains of Dust: 3% Goblin
Schallsea: 4% Goblin
Silvanesit: 1 % Goblin
Tanau Busak ( Neraka) : 16% Goblin
Throtle: Goblin 9%. Hobgoblon 51%.
Where all the many Golbins? I cant find they! From where come all the Goblinarmys in the history? From where come the Goblins in the Dragonarmy? We have more Silvanesti as Golbin and in the most Countrys they are under 5 %.
Goblinoids: 115,203 (3.0 %) 15 Country of 27:
Abanaisia: 7% Goblin
Dragonisle: 3% Goblin
Eastwilde: Goblinoide 7%
Goodlund: 4 % Goblin
Kern; 2 % Goblin
Khurolis: 6% , Hobgoblin 3 % Goblin
Khur: 3% Goblin
Kern: 2% Goblin
Lemish: Hobgoblin 15%
Nord Ergoth: Goblin 10% here is the Gobincapital
Plains of Dust: 3% Goblin
Schallsea: 4% Goblin
Silvanesit: 1 % Goblin
Tanau Busak ( Neraka) : 16% Goblin
Throtle: Goblin 9%. Hobgoblon 51%.
Don't forget that goblinoids breed extremely fast.
Of the 12 regions where goblins aren't listed in the population breakdown, chances are their numbers are included in the "Others" category, so the 115,203 goblinoid figure is artificially low.
The figure for goblinoids only includes goblins and hobgoblins. It does not include any of the other goblinoid types, such as bugbears.
The figure for goblinoids only includes goblins and hobgoblins. It does not include any of the other goblinoid types, such as bugbears.
No, it does. Bugbears are one of the three subraces included under the goblinoid heading.
Cheers,
Cam
No, it does. Bugbears are one of the three subraces included under the goblinoid heading.
Cheers,
Cam
No, it doesn't. Of the regions detailed in WotL, only one region had a "goblinoid" entry, and that was Estwilde. All other regions either listed goblins and/or hobgoblins. The goblinoid statistics entry I listed above was a conglomeration of any and all references to goblins and hobgoblins plus that one entry of "goblinoids" in Estwilde. Thus, bugbears are for the most part not included in the population numbers for goblinoids.
No, it doesn't. Of the regions detailed in WotL, only one region had a "goblinoid" entry, and that was Estwilde. All other regions either listed goblins and/or hobgoblins. The goblinoid statistics entry I listed above was a conglomeration of any and all references to goblins and hobgoblins plus that one entry of "goblinoids" in Estwilde. Thus, bugbears are for the most part not included in the population numbers for goblinoids.
Bugbears are much fewer in numbers than hobgoblins and goblins, yes. In general, "goblins" should include all three races, if used in general terms, but you're right that in the population figures the individual races were specifically mentioned.
Cheers,
Cam