Converting the Knights of Nekara - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Converting the Knights of Nekara

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Charles_Phipps
Oct 09, 2004 23:10:26 I had an interesting idea that the gods of evil have no desire to see the Knights of Nekara remain the corrupting influence that they are (i.e. no backing of the gods)

To that end I had the idea of all the gods of evil appearing to the Knights with a very simple statement

"Join us or die."

The Knights don't pay it much head but all those who don't are afflicted with horrific plague, Nuitari murders a Thorn Knight every day in the most horrific manner possible, Zebomin tosses lightning down while the dead rise to eat their flesh, Sargonnes simply gloats.

The survivors then are given the ressurected Arikan to whip them back into shape.

How does it sound?
#2
iltharanos
Oct 10, 2004 0:14:56 That doesn't strike me as something the Krynnish deities would do. I'm not talking about the meddling part, they do that quite a bit. ;) The above illustration of forced conversions just seems ... out of character for Krynn's deities. The whole idea just smacks of the destruction of free will and is disturbingly reminiscent of Istar's forced conversions ... and we all know where that led. Given the deific insight we were shown in Amber and Ashes it seems that the Gods would be more likely to enter into voluntary partnerships with the mortals rather than heavy-handed forced conversions.
#3
Dragonhelm
Oct 10, 2004 0:32:03 The idea of the Knights of Neraka (the artists formerly known as the Knights of Takhisis ;) ) following a new god, or set of gods, has crossed my mind. Whether it would happen or not is another story.

Sargonnas is #1 in my book, as he is an honorable god, and would fit in well with the KoN code of honor. Lily Knights especially would be his followers. However, these are the servants of She Who Betrayed Him, and as such, would feel his wrath - especially since he's the god of vengeance.

Zeboim may have some interest, as her son, Ariakan, is their founder. She is also Sargonnas' daughter. I just don't see their rigid lifestyle working well with her swaying moods.

Chemosh also comes to mind, but moreso for the Skull Knights. Then again, the Skull Knights have already been burned by a god. Mysticism gives them the power they want without having to rely on a deity.

As for the Thorn Knights - I dunno. No way would Nuitari give them magical power. He's already got his Black Robes, and he hates the very idea that Takhisis would betray him with her own order of mages. No other evil deity really strikes me as the arcane magic type, and I think Nuitari would be quite cross if they touched upon his territory. I see these guys sticking with sorcery.

Honestly, though, I just don't see any other evil god taking over as patron for these guys. They've got power through ambient magic and no longer need the gods. The gods won't have anything to do with Takhisis' champions anyway.
#4
Charles_Phipps
Oct 10, 2004 1:25:19 The Evil gods have NEVER cared about free will. Quite the opposite, they do their best to make sure that mortals under their rule have as little as possible. Takhasis entering the world was ALL about her having the power to rule the world directly with no mortal go-betweeners.

The Gods of Evil prefer sincere worship but I don't think it's beyond them to take a little vengeance on the gutted remains of "Mommy's" knighthood to turn to an insturment of their conversion.

Normally, the gods of good and neutrality might object but as a blatant force for evil anyway....I can't see them really caring one way or the other. The Knights of Nekara have it coming.

Seriously, do NOT attempt **** off Nuitari or Chemosh by trying to claim magic and mysticism as your own.
#5
iltharanos
Oct 10, 2004 9:04:21 Takhisis was the most heavy-handed evil deity and even she never popped up before mortals and said, "Worship me or die." The other evil gods, while no champions of free will, aren't likely to pop up before KoN and give the same ultimatum. They crush free will whenever and wherever they can, but not through forced conversions done through acts of directed divine power. They're more subtle than that.

That said, I could see one or more of the evil deities using a resurrected Ariakan to manipulate and dominate the KoN. That kind of indirect conversion/manipulation is right up the evil Gods' alley.
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 10, 2004 11:12:42 While I don't think that the gods would intervene so blatantly, I do think that the gods of Evil would want to put them to use as soon as possible. The challenge will be overcoming their independence.

Nuitari is the most anti-sorcery of all the gods of magic and has the biggest bone to pick with the Thorn Knights. He would definitely want to see them become Black Robes. High-ranking Thorn Knights might be swayed if Nuitari offered them perks such a level boosts and knowledge of powerful spells. Maybe he offers to help them create a flying citadel (something I can never see primal sorcery accomplishing) and other arcane weapons in return for service?

The Skull Knights will be harder. They have come to like the freedom to set what doctrine they choose. But perhaps the gods could be less subtle, forcing them inot slowly placating, then worshipping them. Zeboim might send unfavorable weather against them, or favorable weather to their opponents, to show her annoyance at their neglect for her and for her son's legacy. That could lead to offerings to placate Zeboim, which in turn could start to result in clerics appearing in the order.
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2004 16:18:09
While I don't think that the gods would intervene so blatantly, I do think that the gods of Evil would want to put them to use as soon as possible. The challenge will be overcoming their independence.

Nuitari is the most anti-sorcery of all the gods of magic and has the biggest bone to pick with the Thorn Knights. He would definitely want to see them become Black Robes. High-ranking Thorn Knights might be swayed if Nuitari offered them perks such a level boosts and knowledge of powerful spells. Maybe he offers to help them create a flying citadel (something I can never see primal sorcery accomplishing) and other arcane weapons in return for service?

The Skull Knights will be harder. They have come to like the freedom to set what doctrine they choose. But perhaps the gods could be less subtle, forcing them inot slowly placating, then worshipping them. Zeboim might send unfavorable weather against them, or favorable weather to their opponents, to show her annoyance at their neglect for her and for her son's legacy. That could lead to offerings to placate Zeboim, which in turn could start to result in clerics appearing in the order.

Coolness. So far in my campaign the only people/gods trying to gain controll of the KoN are Big T.'s mortal followers(If Paladine can have 'em why can't the One God?)
#8
clarkvalentine
Oct 11, 2004 16:29:17 (I post this as a guy wh hasn't read much 5th age literature)

To that end I had the idea of all the gods of evil appearing to the Knights with a very simple statement "Join us or die."

Or what about some holdouts from the "Good Old Days". Some guys who were junior officers back when they were the Knights of Takhisis. Very Prussian - honorable, disciplined, brilliant at tactics & strategy, painfully aware of their proud tradition and what's become of it. They grumble about the pillaging rabble that's become of their once proud armies. They reminisce about the good old days. They talk over their mugs of ale about restoring the Knights to the glorious, honorable, properly god-fearing force they once were. It's all talk, until the day one of them says "You know, we really might be able to do it. Why not?"

And they engineer a takeover...
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2004 16:53:52 Remember that those that follow the gods have one big advantage that those to don't do not: the gods themselves.

Mina wasn't so tough because she was a powerful divine spellcaster. She was successful because she had Takhisis whispering in her ear telling her how to defeat her opposition.

A clerical faction (or wizardly one) within the Knights could gain similar benefits, with interested deities providing them with godly insight into the plans of rivals and how to best them.
#10
Dragonhelm
Oct 11, 2004 16:55:35
Or what about some holdouts from the "Good Old Days". Some guys who were junior officers back when they were the Knights of Takhisis. Very Prussian - honorable, disciplined, brilliant at tactics & strategy, painfully aware of their proud tradition and what's become of it. They grumble about the pillaging rabble that's become of their once proud armies. They reminisce about the good old days. They talk over their mugs of ale about restoring the Knights to the glorious, honorable, properly god-fearing force they once were. It's all talk, until the day one of them says "You know, we really might be able to do it. Why not?"

And they engineer a takeover...

I'd like to see it, although in some respects, I wonder if that would come across as a bit cheesy if presented in a novel that way. I definitely wouldn't have it be the long, lost forgotten son of Ariakan (as he was Ariakas' long-lost son).

In the state they're in now, I could see a few of them going that route, but maybe splintering off and following Sargonnas. The Knights of Sargonnas. I sorta like that. ;)

I think, if I were to run a game in the present and I didn't care about continuity, I would have the Knights of Neraka splinter off into a few factions. Some are mentioned in Heroes of Hope as factions of the Skull Knights, and I could see a few more popping up.

In some ways, I think it would be cool to see the Knights of Neraka being honorable again, but in other ways, I think that maybe it is best to just remember them as they were, and let them fade into the River of Time.
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2004 18:20:09
In some ways, I think it would be cool to see the Knights of Neraka being honorable again, but in other ways, I think that maybe it is best to just remember them as they were, and let them fade into the River of Time.

I like the old honorable KoT better than the KoN. If the KoT had lasted longer then the Summer of Chaos, i'd be running a game set while they were there. The old honorable KoT are too intresting to let them fade into the river of time. I see them as being a faction in the KoN for a long time, or atleast in my age.
#12
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2004 19:37:39
In the state they're in now, I could see a few of them going that route, but maybe splintering off and following Sargonnas. The Knights of Sargonnas. I sorta like that

I believe that they are more Knight of Zenobia as Knight of Sargona

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Oct 09, 2004 23:10:26	I had an interesting idea that the gods of evil have no desire to see the Knights of Nekara remain the corrupting influence that they are (i.e. no backing of the gods) To that end I had the idea of all the gods of evil appearing to the Knights with a very simple statement "Join us or die." The Knights don't pay it much head but all those who don't are afflicted with horrific plague, Nuitari murders a Thorn Knight every day in the most horrific manner possible, Zebomin tosses lightning down while the dead rise to eat their flesh, Sargonnes simply gloats. The survivors then are given the ressurected Arikan to whip them back into shape. How does it sound?
#2 iltharanos Oct 10, 2004 0:14:56	That doesn't strike me as something the Krynnish deities would do. I'm not talking about the meddling part, they do that quite a bit. ;) The above illustration of forced conversions just seems ... out of character for Krynn's deities. The whole idea just smacks of the destruction of free will and is disturbingly reminiscent of Istar's forced conversions ... and we all know where that led. Given the deific insight we were shown in Amber and Ashes it seems that the Gods would be more likely to enter into voluntary partnerships with the mortals rather than heavy-handed forced conversions.
#3 Dragonhelm Oct 10, 2004 0:32:03	The idea of the Knights of Neraka (the artists formerly known as the Knights of Takhisis ;) ) following a new god, or set of gods, has crossed my mind. Whether it would happen or not is another story. Sargonnas is #1 in my book, as he is an honorable god, and would fit in well with the KoN code of honor. Lily Knights especially would be his followers. However, these are the servants of She Who Betrayed Him, and as such, would feel his wrath - especially since he's the god of vengeance. Zeboim may have some interest, as her son, Ariakan, is their founder. She is also Sargonnas' daughter. I just don't see their rigid lifestyle working well with her swaying moods. Chemosh also comes to mind, but moreso for the Skull Knights. Then again, the Skull Knights have already been burned by a god. Mysticism gives them the power they want without having to rely on a deity. As for the Thorn Knights - I dunno. No way would Nuitari give them magical power. He's already got his Black Robes, and he hates the very idea that Takhisis would betray him with her own order of mages. No other evil deity really strikes me as the arcane magic type, and I think Nuitari would be quite cross if they touched upon his territory. I see these guys sticking with sorcery. Honestly, though, I just don't see any other evil god taking over as patron for these guys. They've got power through ambient magic and no longer need the gods. The gods won't have anything to do with Takhisis' champions anyway.
#4 Charles_Phipps Oct 10, 2004 1:25:19	The Evil gods have NEVER cared about free will. Quite the opposite, they do their best to make sure that mortals under their rule have as little as possible. Takhasis entering the world was ALL about her having the power to rule the world directly with no mortal go-betweeners. The Gods of Evil prefer sincere worship but I don't think it's beyond them to take a little vengeance on the gutted remains of "Mommy's" knighthood to turn to an insturment of their conversion. Normally, the gods of good and neutrality might object but as a blatant force for evil anyway....I can't see them really caring one way or the other. The Knights of Nekara have it coming. Seriously, do NOT attempt **** off Nuitari or Chemosh by trying to claim magic and mysticism as your own.
#5 iltharanos Oct 10, 2004 9:04:21	Takhisis was the most heavy-handed evil deity and even she never popped up before mortals and said, "Worship me or die." The other evil gods, while no champions of free will, aren't likely to pop up before KoN and give the same ultimatum. They crush free will whenever and wherever they can, but not through forced conversions done through acts of directed divine power. They're more subtle than that. That said, I could see one or more of the evil deities using a resurrected Ariakan to manipulate and dominate the KoN. That kind of indirect conversion/manipulation is right up the evil Gods' alley.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 10, 2004 11:12:42	While I don't think that the gods would intervene so blatantly, I do think that the gods of Evil would want to put them to use as soon as possible. The challenge will be overcoming their independence. Nuitari is the most anti-sorcery of all the gods of magic and has the biggest bone to pick with the Thorn Knights. He would definitely want to see them become Black Robes. High-ranking Thorn Knights might be swayed if Nuitari offered them perks such a level boosts and knowledge of powerful spells. Maybe he offers to help them create a flying citadel (something I can never see primal sorcery accomplishing) and other arcane weapons in return for service? The Skull Knights will be harder. They have come to like the freedom to set what doctrine they choose. But perhaps the gods could be less subtle, forcing them inot slowly placating, then worshipping them. Zeboim might send unfavorable weather against them, or favorable weather to their opponents, to show her annoyance at their neglect for her and for her son's legacy. That could lead to offerings to placate Zeboim, which in turn could start to result in clerics appearing in the order.
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2004 16:18:09	While I don't think that the gods would intervene so blatantly, I do think that the gods of Evil would want to put them to use as soon as possible. The challenge will be overcoming their independence. Nuitari is the most anti-sorcery of all the gods of magic and has the biggest bone to pick with the Thorn Knights. He would definitely want to see them become Black Robes. High-ranking Thorn Knights might be swayed if Nuitari offered them perks such a level boosts and knowledge of powerful spells. Maybe he offers to help them create a flying citadel (something I can never see primal sorcery accomplishing) and other arcane weapons in return for service? The Skull Knights will be harder. They have come to like the freedom to set what doctrine they choose. But perhaps the gods could be less subtle, forcing them inot slowly placating, then worshipping them. Zeboim might send unfavorable weather against them, or favorable weather to their opponents, to show her annoyance at their neglect for her and for her son's legacy. That could lead to offerings to placate Zeboim, which in turn could start to result in clerics appearing in the order. Coolness. So far in my campaign the only people/gods trying to gain controll of the KoN are Big T.'s mortal followers(If Paladine can have 'em why can't the One God?)
#8 clarkvalentine Oct 11, 2004 16:29:17	(I post this as a guy wh hasn't read much 5th age literature) To that end I had the idea of all the gods of evil appearing to the Knights with a very simple statement "Join us or die." Or what about some holdouts from the "Good Old Days". Some guys who were junior officers back when they were the Knights of Takhisis. Very Prussian - honorable, disciplined, brilliant at tactics & strategy, painfully aware of their proud tradition and what's become of it. They grumble about the pillaging rabble that's become of their once proud armies. They reminisce about the good old days. They talk over their mugs of ale about restoring the Knights to the glorious, honorable, properly god-fearing force they once were. It's all talk, until the day one of them says "You know, we really might be able to do it. Why not?" And they engineer a takeover...
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2004 16:53:52	Remember that those that follow the gods have one big advantage that those to don't do not: the gods themselves. Mina wasn't so tough because she was a powerful divine spellcaster. She was successful because she had Takhisis whispering in her ear telling her how to defeat her opposition. A clerical faction (or wizardly one) within the Knights could gain similar benefits, with interested deities providing them with godly insight into the plans of rivals and how to best them.
#10 Dragonhelm Oct 11, 2004 16:55:35	Or what about some holdouts from the "Good Old Days". Some guys who were junior officers back when they were the Knights of Takhisis. Very Prussian - honorable, disciplined, brilliant at tactics & strategy, painfully aware of their proud tradition and what's become of it. They grumble about the pillaging rabble that's become of their once proud armies. They reminisce about the good old days. They talk over their mugs of ale about restoring the Knights to the glorious, honorable, properly god-fearing force they once were. It's all talk, until the day one of them says "You know, we really might be able to do it. Why not?" And they engineer a takeover... I'd like to see it, although in some respects, I wonder if that would come across as a bit cheesy if presented in a novel that way. I definitely wouldn't have it be the long, lost forgotten son of Ariakan (as he was Ariakas' long-lost son). In the state they're in now, I could see a few of them going that route, but maybe splintering off and following Sargonnas. The Knights of Sargonnas. I sorta like that. ;) I think, if I were to run a game in the present and I didn't care about continuity, I would have the Knights of Neraka splinter off into a few factions. Some are mentioned in Heroes of Hope as factions of the Skull Knights, and I could see a few more popping up. In some ways, I think it would be cool to see the Knights of Neraka being honorable again, but in other ways, I think that maybe it is best to just remember them as they were, and let them fade into the River of Time.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2004 18:20:09	In some ways, I think it would be cool to see the Knights of Neraka being honorable again, but in other ways, I think that maybe it is best to just remember them as they were, and let them fade into the River of Time. I like the old honorable KoT better than the KoN. If the KoT had lasted longer then the Summer of Chaos, i'd be running a game set while they were there. The old honorable KoT are too intresting to let them fade into the river of time. I see them as being a faction in the KoN for a long time, or atleast in my age.
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2004 19:37:39	In the state they're in now, I could see a few of them going that route, but maybe splintering off and following Sargonnas. The Knights of Sargonnas. I sorta like that I believe that they are more Knight of Zenobia as Knight of Sargona