Some days ago, I had that discussion about *Hey, Rafa, what do you do when your favourite RPG is stopped*
I answered of course, that my favourite RPGs were out of print for years
That idea led me to put this question on these boards.
Let's say that the worst case scenario comes to happen:
D&D 4.0 ( a terrible flop) relies completely on Eberron.
Because of arguements with some old TSR bones WotC doesn't switch Greyhawk license to a third party developer.
Cannonfire and the other important Greyhawk portals, even this forum, close.
(NOTE: I don't want to discuss if these things are probable; I think not, BTW.)
So, you replay what you can find of old modules and of some fan stuff, until then, let's say 2010, you find that for you and your player groups there is nothing left to explore in the Flanaess.
What would you do?
Would you use another Oerthian setting, for example Chain Mail or Aquaria (if you could still find it), switch to another gaming world (one of the classics, one of the current, or something new from that future era) or even drop roleplaying?
*I myself don't know what I would do, really.*
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Home PC still out of function...
*Just honour the effort, don't try to think of us old battleaxes dicin'with our grandsons*However, I don't think Greyhawk is a good setting for new gamers just delving into D&D. When I first started digging into Greyhawk, I was overwhelmed. The amount of time, energy, and money researching old adventures and other publications could have been saved had I just invested in Eberron, which isn't nearly as complex.
I'm currently struggling with the decision of switching to Eberron despite my investment in Greyhawk (I still do like Greyhawk having a strong grasp of the setting and enjoying the political intrigue among the different nations). I really like the freshness of Eberron. Even playing in the world of Greyhawk, my characters were always something that would fit better in Khorvaire. I like the ideas and the feel, and I like the lack of conflicting messy histories as in Greyhawk.
Overall, I really wouldn't mind switching from Greyhawk to Eberron.
I'm currently struggling with the decision of switching to Eberron despite my investment in Greyhawk.
Well, it's not like you're married to the Greyhawk setting. You're not even dating. :D Gamers don't need to be exclusive to any particular setting, or even any particular game system. I think we probably all develop preferences and tend to stick with those preferences, but there's no reason why we couldn't run one campaign in Greyhawk and another in Eberron or Planescape (or even *gasp* Forgotten Realms ;) ).
As for the original question, I don't think that Greyhawk fans as a group are too concerned with whether or not the setting is supported. We've been getting by for a while now on little or nothing. I for one would probably continue to use Greyhawk, and if I wanted to see the setting advanced, I'd do it myself.
After that, I'd be happy to try out Ebberon, I quite like it. But if my group is still around and they want another Greyhawk campaign, there is plenty left for another 5-6 year run, starting with Temple of Elemental Evil.
All 1e modules are "new to us", so we're set for adventures.
Well, it's not like you're married to the Greyhawk setting. You're not even dating. :D Gamers don't need to be exclusive to any particular setting, or even any particular game system. I think we probably all develop preferences and tend to stick with those preferences, but there's no reason why we couldn't run one campaign in Greyhawk and another in Eberron or Planescape (or even *gasp* Forgotten Realms ;) ).
As for the original question, I don't think that Greyhawk fans as a group are too concerned with whether or not the setting is supported. We've been getting by for a while now on little or nothing. I for one would probably continue to use Greyhawk, and if I wanted to see the setting advanced, I'd do it myself.
It's because of my limited time and money that I value my current investment in Greyhawk. At the moment, I think I'll stick with it.
Personally, I don't think Greyhawk needs to be advanced so much as it needs to be acknowledged. There's a discrepancy within WotC over whether Greyhawk is in fact the default setting or not. I don't understand why WotC chooses not to fully support Greyhawk while almost all product 'crunch' and 'fluff' alludes to the world. WotC seems to teeter back and forther between making generic Dungeons & Dragons equal to expansion of Greyhawk. Examples of this include products such as the Book of Vile Darkness with its prestige classes and archfiends, the class guidebooks with their prestige classes and organizations, and others.
If WotC wants to make generic materials for generic gaming, then it should consider publishing generic D20 fantasy products without the D&D logo. Othwerwise, it should either stop alluding to Greyhawk in its 'generic' D&D products or fully embrace Greyhawk with those very same products.
Edit: Additionally, the specific Greyhawk allusions in 'generic' D&D products makes it sometimes difficult to 'port' things over to other campaign settings such as Eberron. I guess that's why I think they should either fully embrace Greyhawk or keep things generic.
Being an old school Greyhawk Fan, which all of us are (well maybe not Cold Penquin, since he's still a teenager, and my son Dwurian, since he's just begining the teenage years), I'd go back to my old Peagus Magazines, and Judges Guild and run City State of the Invincible Overlord.
Oh, that's what I'm doing now.
So then in 2045, which is 2 years after my 2nd term as Theocrat-President for Life, I'll have gone back to Greyhawk. I'll be able to say, Long Live Spidasa! and have the young whipersnappers say "who dat?" to which I'll respond, Check out the Library of the Peoples Theocrat for Ivid the Undying.
The Peoples Theocrat-President For Life Issak
(normal weblink sig removed as this will scroll to the eye and auto link and download content to smart chip browser)
now I would prefer some sort of support for my favorite setting, don't get me wrong... but even if that never happens my greyahwk campaigns will live on.
... as long as the DM's ... imagination holds out there will never be a time when there is nothing left to explore or adventure in in the flanaess...
That's all it takes to make a Greyhawk campaign indefinitely successful, Wes. Greyhawk has too many open plot lines, to many unresolved issues, and too many villians. Support or not, there is too much of Greyhawk to fade away. It's not too much of an exaggeration to assume that if you took all of the dangling plot lines from 1st and 2nd edition Greyhawk sources, you will have an almost infinite number of directions to take your campaign. And, what law bars the ingenuitive DM from adapting other setting material to his or her Greyhawk campaign?
Greyhawk will only go away if you close the door of your imagination on it.
So, you replay what you can find of old modules and of some fan stuff, until then, let's say 2010, you find that for you and your player groups there is nothing left to explore in the Flanaess.
What would you do?
Would you use another Oerthian setting, for example Chain Mail or Aquaria (if you could still find it), switch to another gaming world (one of the classics, one of the current, or something new from that future era) or even drop roleplaying?
You know, these " is it doomsday for WoG?" types of posts are beginning to be annoying.
As some colleagues above stated clearly enough, as long as you have the "basic" material at your fingertips (and with nearly the entire WoG collection available as .pdf on the net, that's easy) AND some shred of imagination left, your campaign can go on as long as you're willing to put some sweat in it AND your players are willing to put up with you.
If WoG not being supported by WotC was enough to make us change setting or even drop role-playing, don't you think that would have happened a long time ago? It's not like we were about to throw a childish tantrum just because our favorite toy wasn't the flavor of the month anymore
Changing to X.YE D&D wouldn't change a thing. Think about it: most of us have already used WoG with 3.0/3.5E even though most of the accessories available are 1E or 2E. If simply changing the rules was such an impediment, we would have dropped the setting long ago. Always remember the first DM's rule: adapt & improvise.
Nerull willing, I'll still be alive in 2045 and I am willing to bet the main source of contention between me and younger players will be the fact that I'll still be advocating dices, pen and paper vs. their computer & 3D holographic interface ;)
You know, these " is it doomsday for WoG?" types of posts are beginning to be annoying.
You are very right, Mortepierre, the situation is annoying, and I am not one of those who want to discuss that *oh how bad is this* over and over.
But I am still convinced that the Greyhawk community is one of the most vivid and creative fan movements on the web.
So maybe our continous protest may help to persuade the WotC bosses to do something in our favour or maybe we can encourage and gather dedicated fans to do a project.
It isn't that there were no other topics to discuss.
;)
But indeed, I consider it kind of funny thinking of me 2045 - at the age of mmhhh 63, sitting with my about 15 grandsons around a table and telling them how nice it was playing without that 3D helmet on my head that transforms all of my thoughts into real life action movies...
What will that be like...
Greyhawk will be in the year 893 then (o my god and my current character will be level 78!!), Final Fantasy XXXII will be to be released and the 46th Magic holographic card expansion will milk out money from the kids...
Also, in 2045 i will be 66, hopefully retired and playing D&D with all my friends at the senior center! Oh, I can't wait to gum my roast turkey and mashed potatoes while slingin' a 20-sider!
Regarding the initial post, I agree with those who have said that you need not be distressed about the lack of published materials. I play, despite my advanced years, for the most part for nostalgia’s sake. Because of that, I use Greyhawk as the campaign world. But it is a Greyhawk that nobody would recognize, because certain conditions and parameters have led me to make it a bit different than what is in most publications. I have borrowed various ideas, added them to the original rules, and made up other things as I have gone. In fact, there probably isn't anything I have purchased or seen that doesn't potentially enter my campaign. Remember the old catchphrase: Products of your IMAGINATION.
So, if you have your own creativity, and even a bare-bones instruction manual, you have all you need (and even the manual is negotiable).