IMO my players break the mold that DragonLance holds onto; they could care less about helping Kronn Thistleknott, they are not awed by dragons, they even tried to sell the key(See Key of Destiny.).
I may be wrong but it seems as if DragonLance does not accomodate these kinds of heroes, they have to be either totally good(Unbelievable.) or totally bad(Also unbelievable.). The Khurish nomads way of seeing good and evil in everything is a more accurate view IMO. My players are also no big lovers of overly dramatic stuff, they want it to be quick or mysterious.
My players ask questions like:
Why did they tolerate Kitiara ? Why not just kill her ?
Why listen to Berem whine consistently ? Why not just tell him to shut up ?
Why wait till the War of Souls to decide to off Takhisis ? She was nothing but a troublemaker anyway.
I ask these questions too constantly. The characters in alot of the novels are either too bad or they are too good. It seems alot of the people in the setting are based on that rule(Be extra bad or be extra good.).
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Dalamar and Kitiara both might have been Chaotic Neutral villains who cared only for themselves and might have been as heroes as well as villains if Dragonlance cared to portray them that way. Instead, they are pretty much confirmed to be irredeemably bad.
The Appendix I think summarized it both "Neutrals are people who haven't made a choice yet. Those who have chosen neutrality are just deluding themselves in end."
I try to compensate for this by pointing out evil in Dragonlance isn't necessarily totally without merit (thank you Knights of Takhasis) and the Good aren't always nice (Kingpriest).
However, the setting has stated that the Knights of Takhasis either became good in the Legion of Steel or became raping sell swords....so its unlikely these kinds of heroes will be welcome.
I admit though, we did have a "cure" for heroism in our games. Bob and George (ironically no relation to the web comic characters in which case the basis would be closer to be Riff and Torg)
Yes, they were good but they were humor characters because they were such everyman heroes. They were used in several games. The other PCs either hated or had to wonder about since they routinely showed up at meetings, hit on people, and did common sense solutions of pretty much no real enlightened morality.
(I have an idea, let's get some gnome smokepowder and collapse the cavern with all of the bad guys inside
"But the slaves!"
Co-lat-er-al D-A-M-A-G-E girl)
It was fun game and like "Rosencratz and Guildenstern are Dead." All these pretenious and godlike beings and the all too thoroughly modern characters. It was so fun they routinely show up in our other games, I just said they ended up planewalkers
:-)
In the end, Dragonlance is slightly pretenious and that's either part of the appeal or something to mock gently
I think the original books did well because they had some diversity in the original group; I mean who could tell whether Raistlin was working with them or against the group ? He was mysterious, only in the end did he finally become evil. With characters like Raistlin good characters were able to stand out. Sturm was the pinnacle of goodness and honor, but if everybody was some kind of hero it would have been boring.
Kitiara was evil for no reason; just because they needed a bad guy, so was Takhisis. Mina is a fanatic, for no reason. Those characters are bland and they represent the pinnacle of a setting as great as DragonLance ?
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Thank God I have a mixture of the true hero types mixed in with the mercenary-type. Basically in order for the story line to work with a mercenary-type you've got to find a way to make it personal. For the true hero types it's simple."Oh no, dark forces have taken over this town, we've got to find a way to help these people." Mosty of my players said that when they ran into that scenario. But this one player said. "Let's just get out of town now while we can. It's not our problem." She was totally serious. Her character is NOT a hero and she has said that repeatedly. But what has her character hooked is that the campaign is based around the fact that her past is being revealed to her piece by piece. First she and her sister found a magical amulet (that apparently sucks up souls) with their Qualinesti family crest on it. Then when they had it examined the crest ended up being an ancient Silvanesti family crest. Then they discovered the amulet was of Silvanesti make. Then they found out their father was in fact a Silvanesti, yet he was one of the most powerful Qualinesti War Mages of his time. The latest clue has pointed to the city of Despair where thier father was first found as a small boy just after the Cataclsym. During their search they continue to run into different situations that revolve around them and their search for clues.
Now if was going to run them through Key of Destiny I might have to find some way to make it personal to her character. Everyone elses motivation seems to be for honor (kagonesti/ranger), spreading the word of Sirrion and opposing Sargonnas (dwarven cleric), knowledge (Red robe wizard), or simple wanderlust (kender rogue).
I know in Cam's game he had the Dark Knight's kidnap Zoe Left-hand. I'm sure that made it much more personal for the wizard that had just taken the Test in Ak-Khurman. There must be something that the characters care about other than money. If not then maybe you should find somethnig to make it personal....
Just an idea.I know in Cam's game he had the Dark Knight's kidnap Zoe Left-hand. I'm sure that made it much more personal for the wizard that had just taken the Test in Ak-Khurman.
Darn right it did - especially given that said white robe was a bit smitten with her at the time...
Takhisis was evil because she was the Queen of Darkness! She was the goddess of Evil! How nice do you expect her to be? I know that post-modern mentality argues that the Devil should really be a nice guy (or gal) and a tragic figure, but that's not the way the world works.
Mina was not really a fanatic for no reason. If you read her story carefully you realize that she is essentially frightened and worries about death, especially the deaths of those close to her (like her real parents). Takhisis was the only god around when Mina was growing up, and she promised to keep Mina's beloved foster mother Goldmoon from dying, so Mina's story is that she could be manipulated by her fears and by nature seeks someone to watch over and protect her.
What I do guess is that there's little room for shallow evil in Dragonlance. People who are Evil in the setting usually have some sort of motivation for it, rather than simply being evil "because".
What I do guess is that there's little room for shallow evil in Dragonlance. People who are Evil in the setting usually have some sort of motivation for it, rather than simply being evil "because".
Verminaard wasn't exactly racking in the tragedy to his villainy. Lord Soth and many in DL are great villains whom you can sympathize with or pity but some are just scumbags...and I like it that way.
"Behind the mask" I hated since it made Verminaard a schizophrenic. I prefer to imagine Verminaard's childhood as 'I grew up, hurt kids littler than me, heard about some dumb religion, realized it could offer me power, enjoyed the wealth and destruction when I killed everyone to get to the top as the Dark Queen's cleric'
In DL its impossible to WONDER if the villains are right though because moral solutions are usually fairly clean cut.
D&D is a give and take game, you have to be willing to not always get your way or let the DM guide you sometimes. I'm not saying 'Railroading is good' I'm saying that steadfast "NO I don't want to investigate that explosion, I want to sit here and do nothing" might as well not even play. These are the people that honestly, you might as well not throw character hooks at because they're going to ignore every single one. They're determined to.