Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chimpman Oct 18, 2004 10:12:29	Well, I picked up Frostburn a few weeks ago, and have had a little time to go through it. I haven't done a thorough job of reading through it... mostly bouncing around to sections that look interesting to me. With that in mind check out some of my ideas for using the Forstburn material with Mystara. 1) On the Outer World - Frostburn material is a perfect match for places like Hyborea and the Polar reaches/openings. There are several new terrain types for the arctic wastes including some more fantastic terrains like acid slush and blood snow. Nothing really jumps out as particularly Mystaran about any of them, but they could all be useful. - Midgard Dwarves = Mordrigswerg. Yes, with the most minor of modifications (mostly flavor text) to the Midgard Dwarves description, and perhaps an alignment change? these can be used as our favorite moulder dwarves. They are master craftsmen and artifact makers, and can bestow curses on those that anger them. - Icerazer City. A mini setting in the back of the book details Icerazer city, a city built on the back of a giant iceburg and devoted to the frozen devil Livustus (sp?). Not very Mystaran, but I was thinking that an enterprising DM could switch out Livustus for some imprisoned Outer Being (or perhaps if used in the HW, even a burrower). 2) In the Hollow World. This is where frostburn shines IMO, and I think we can extract a lot of Mystaran info here. - Once again many lands can be detailed here - beastman wastes, polar reaches/openings, Icevale lands, Antalian lands, and anything else covered in snw or ice. - Races. Snow Elves could become the Icevale Elves with very little work. Neanderthals are a new PC race that could be used as brute men. Perhaps the 'ice dwarf' variant could even be used for Kogolor dwarves. - There are some rules for using primitive weapons as exotic weapons. This is a perfect fit for the SoP cultural limitations imposed on weapons and armor. Basically in the hands of someone raised to use the weapons, they function normally. In the hands of an outsider (who has not taken exotic weeapon proficiencies) they tend to break often. - Lots of lost world type monsters (most with a cold bent of course). - Delzomin's Iceforge. This is the second mini-setting/adventure detailed in the back of the book, and I think you could pretty much drop it anywhere in the HW. The only trick is in coming up with a reasonable background and history for Delzomin in the HW. Perhaps a deranged Antalian wizard, or exiled Kogolor or Shattenalfen? 3) Non-canon Mystara - For myself I think that Forstburn will find the most use in detailing other worlds in the Mystaran universe. MMars comes right to the forefront. Frozen planes come in at number two.
#2 kheldren Oct 18, 2004 13:40:17	Not seen Frostburn myself, but don't forget Neaderthals are specifically set in the multiverse - and not on Mystara, check out "CM6 Where Chaos Reigns". One question of FB though - how would it do for the good old Norworld Campaign? - North Norworld is pretty arctic, and has both the elves and Frost Giants living there. As for the modrigswerg, make the Norwold dwarves take that line and it will really throw PCs who think they know what to expect...
#3 chimpman Oct 18, 2004 15:31:26	You're going to have to refresh my memory about CM6. I can't recall how neanderthals fit in there. As for Norwold, I'm sure you could use much of the Frostburn material for a northern campaign, however while reading FB, nothing really jumped out at me and shouted Norwold. Hmmm, let me try to take each of your points and relate them to Frostburn as I see it. 1) There is an entire section dedicated to different types of terrain and the effects they have, but I have to admit that this is one of the sections I skimmed over. I'll take another look tonight and report back if anything interesting jumps out. 2) Elves: I don't see the Norwold elves as being particularly different from other elves in the KW... they just live somewhere colder. For that reason you're not going to get much out of Frostburn concerning them other than some new equipment options, and perhaps a little cultural flavor (but not much there I'm afraid). 3) Dwarves: Sure, I think the Modrigswerg work well up north. Unfortunatley, other than stats for the Midgard Dwarves, Forstburn doesn't go into a lot of detail on them. 4) Frost Giants: Well, FB offers 3 variant Frost Giants in its monster section, but this is something I'm not so happy about. They've just taken frost giants and slapped a few levels of barbarian, or ranger on them. Nothing special there folks.
#4 Cthulhudrew Oct 18, 2004 22:56:12	Not seen Frostburn myself, but don't forget Neaderthals are specifically set in the multiverse - and not on Mystara, check out "CM6 Where Chaos Reigns". Actually, the Brute Men are the neanderthals, and thus have a place on Mystara as well. I actually have a writeup of a Brute man that I did some time ago, intending them to the be the Denagothan race- a departure from the Wendar fan work, but which I think works out well. I'll see if I can dig it up. I know it doesn't quite match the neanderthal in Frostburn, though.
#5 chimpman Oct 19, 2004 0:04:25	I actually have a writeup of a Brute man that I did some time ago, intending them to the be the Denagothan race- a departure from the Wendar fan work, but which I think works out well. I'll see if I can dig it up. I know it doesn't quite match the neanderthal in Frostburn, though. Wow, I'd really like to see this. I've been toying with the idea of beastmen/humanoids/neanderthals crossing through the poles from the HW and onto the northern OW, and thought that these crossovers would be perfect fodder for Denegoth to use. Anyway, post up what you have Andrew, I can't wait to see it.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 20, 2004 8:50:27	Weren't Neanderthals or "cavemen" in Original D&D. Can't remember which they called 'em but I know they were there. Therefore, they probably have *some* place on Mystara.
#7 chimpman Oct 20, 2004 9:55:39	Well, they called them Brutemen in the HW setting. Don't know about the outer world though.
#8 chimpman Oct 20, 2004 11:03:58	Here are some Mystaran campaign ideas I've been kicking around while reading through Frostburn. 1) The Death of the Sun For some reason the red sun in the Hollow World goes out. Perhaps the Zargosians finally succeed in their plans, or perhaps Thanatos manages to build (or rebuild) his Smoking Mirror (or some variation thereof), but whatever the cause is, the HW is thrown into darkness and the temperatures drop rapidly. Since the Spell of Preservation was powered in great part by the HW's sun, this also has the immediate effect of removing many cultural biases from the peoples of the HW. This is a good thing since many of those cultures are tropical, or desert dwellers, who must adapt to the cold as quickly as possible or freeze to death. The first portion of the campaign would be playing through the apocalyptic events of the freezing. The heroes should quickly rise as leaders of their respective nations and try to find ways to preserve their culture and their people. Many groups might try to take advantage of the newly dark HW including the Zargossians, the Shattenalfen, and perhaps the Bahlor Empire. Some of the burrowers might be able to free themselves from their long slumber. Perhaps without the SoP in place some ancient terror is able to free itself from the Blacklore valley, or from Blackmoorian Jomphur. All of these threats would need to be dealt with in order for the HW cultures to survive intact. The second portion of the campaign could focus on the cause of the Red Sun dying, and perhaps PCs could work toward its eventual resurrection. If this is not possible, then their might be one more course of action for the PCs to take. Once the red sun dies, the only source of light in the HW will be a faint glow that radiates from the cloud covered polar regions. This is caused by sunlight from the outer world defracting in through all of the fog and clouds of the poles. In the OW summertime, this light comes in through the north pole and in the OW winter it enters through the south pole. If all else fails, then PCs might be tempted to lead their people to the only source of light left...and eventually find an escape from the HW! 2) Invasions From the Past This campaign option assumes that the events from campaign #1 above have already taken place. As the winters grow longer, and the polar ice caps creep further and further toward the equator, the nations of the Outer World find themselves being invaded by ghosts from the past... or so they think. In reality the HW nations have found an escape from their freezing tomb and are intent on reclaiming the Outer World for themselves. The PCs wil lbe tasked with meeting the threat that advances from the poles. The Azca, the Antalians, the Krugal and beastmen hordes, Jennites and Tanagoro warriors, the Millenian Empire... and even Lost Nithia! Depending on the timeline, the Alphatians themselves might make an appearance! The first part of the campaign will consist of the adventurers discovering this new threat and trying to stop it. However, their adversaries are desperate to say the least. There is no truning back for the peoples of the HW, and they will fight to the bitter end if need be. If played just after the end of the Wrath War, this can be devistating for the Known World nations as they must recover from their wounds or be shattered by this new threat. The second part of the campaign will begin when the PCs realize the reason for the invasions... that the polar ice caps will quickly expand to cover their entire world. Can they stop the real threat before it is too late? Perhaps they will be able to recruit allies from the HW nations. 3) War of the Worlds ;) Building from the previous two campaigns, we continue with an invasion from another world. Deep in the heavens, a very long way from Mystara, another planet in the Solar System has just lost its long battle. In the beginnig MMars was very similar to its sister world Mystara. It was a vibrant world, with advanced civilizations. They built collosal canals across their continents, and gigantic cities dotted the landscape along them. Then the Others came... The world became darker and colder, with each passing year. At first it was imperceptable to the natives (who I picture as Egyptian type Aranea), but soon the growing cold was too hard to ignore. By then it was too late. Creatures from the elemental planes poured out across the landscape, and began to conquer and enslave the populace. Now that they have won the war on MMars, they turn their attention to Mystara. Perhaps the first wave of invasion could come from the MMars natives as they desperately try to escape their doom. Perhaps they are the ones who lead the Others to Mystara in the first place? Regardless, the PCs must now fight to save their entire world, lest it suffer the icey fate of MMars.
#9 spellweaver Oct 20, 2004 15:49:41	VERY nice ideas!! Oh boy, oh boy, this will be epic...
#10 Cthulhudrew Oct 20, 2004 19:31:44	Weren't Neanderthals or "cavemen" in Original D&D. Can't remember which they called 'em but I know they were there. Therefore, they probably have *some* place on Mystara. Yep. They first showed up in the old Basic set. There were a couple of appearances of them in some Basic level modules (offhand, I seem to recall a clan of neanderthals in B5: Horror on the Hill). There is also a group of neanderthals on the Isle of Dread in module X1. When the Hollow World came out, the neanderthals were renamed "Brute-Men" and given a place of their own and a history. Not sure if they are intended to be the same as the neanderthals of the Basic set (they have different abilities, for one), but they are described as neanderthals, so it's pretty much a moot point. Just as there are still spots in the Outer World where dinosaurs live and thrive, I presume some Brute-Men/Neanderthals also live (like on the Isle of Dread, or in my campaign, Denagoth/Essuria.)
#11 spellweaver Jan 24, 2005 17:34:16	Just found this old thread and wanted to toss a few ideas around that I got from reading Frostburn: - A lot of the feats concerning the use of ice and cold magic could be re-invented for air, earth and fire and used as elementalism feats taught at the Great School of Magic in Glantri (and of course the air feats would also be taught in Alphatia) - The "Primitive Caster" feat IMO fits perfectly with Athruaghin wiccas or Ethengarian Hakomons. The feat adds +1 effective caster level to any spell where you can add a verbal, somatic or material component to the spell. In effect, you shout, wave your arms and shake weird talismans and other components around in a noisy manner and this boosts your spell. (It can probably scare the pants of PCs who haven't seen that sort of behaviour before too :D ) - Feats like mountaineer, sea legs, cold endurance and altitude adaption fits perfectly in the Northern Reaches. :-) Jesper
#12 Hugin Jan 24, 2005 18:39:22	Interesting. I haven't looked at Frostburn yet, but those feats do sound very good with your ideas.