Illithid Planes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Illithid Planes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 22, 2004 3:19:56 Okay, I have a question. Sorry if this is a bit long-winded.

The Outer Planes conform to belief, and as humans are the most common species (found just about everywhere, on almost every Prime world) the Great Ring seems to conform to a human way of thinking about personality types - humans are just about the only race that exhibits every alignment with equal quantity, and so the only race to have a roughly equal number of petitioners on every Outer Plane.

However, when the Illithid empire existed, the dominant world view of the planes would have been very different. Good, for example, would have been an irrelevant concept to the alien mindflayers and their slaves, and so presumably the Outer Planes would have looked totally different. Now, of course, the Illithids have a tiny part in the planes - Ilsensine is banished to a hole in the ground in the Outlands, for example.

My question is, what would the Illithid planes have looked like? How would they have been divided, if not by alignment (not the most important factor to the almost excusively LE mindflayers)?
#2
nightdruid
Oct 22, 2004 6:36:58 Hmmm. Well, for one, I think of the artifact Rod of Seven Parts, and particularly that "back then", the law-chaos axis was very important (lawful wind dukes v. hordes of chaos), and illithid beliefs would fit into that. Thus, to illithids, they might see themselves as "lawful", and everyone else (especially the gith after they freed themselves) as chaotic. Maybe the lawful and chaotic planes both held greater importance then, and the planes of conflict were smaller/less important.

Just some ramblings...
#3
GothicDan
Oct 22, 2004 13:13:25 Remember that there is no true geographical makeup to the Outer Planes, so they wouldn't "look different" at all. There would probably be a high prevalence of certain types (evil types, more baatezu, etc.) than good types (Celestials), but the Outer Planes would remain the same, I believe.

Just because an Illithid doesn't believe that what he is doing is evil doesn't make it "not evil" by D&D's alignment specifics. If he did evil, it would propagate the Lower Planes, no matter what the Illithid thought about it.
#4
zombiegleemax
Oct 22, 2004 14:46:14 Whether they think they're evil or not is irrelevant, but the attitude propagated by the Illithid empire doesn't sound conducive to good - even escaped slaves (Githyanki and Githzerai) have no real interest in the concept. I agree with Nightdruid that law and chaos do seem to be more important factors; if there's more evil than good, then evil overwhelms good and becomes the status quo (instead of just being evil - there's no contrast with anything else, no flipside to the coin).

All I'm really trying to do is establish roughly what people think the setting would have been like. Presumably Illithids would have had a larger part to play, and the planar cosmology wouldn't be so centred on humans. You can't have an empire that powerful, with that much belief behindit without having some sort of effect on the planes - to go back to an earlier point, at the very least Ilsensine must have been more powerful (with far more worshippers), even if the planes didn't look totally different.

I saw this interview somewhere with one of the PS designers, who talked about this idea of going backwards in time to an era when the planes would be different - just generic planes of good, evil, law and chaos, with nothing in between. I just thought it would be interesting to do the same thing, but with an alien philsophy.
#5
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Oct 22, 2004 17:22:35
I saw this interview somewhere with one of the PS designers, who talked about this idea of going backwards in time to an era when the planes would be different - just generic planes of good, evil, law and chaos, with nothing in between. I just thought it would be interesting to do the same thing, but with an alien philsophy.

I believe that was an adventure idea posited by Monte Cook that they never got to do, the idea got rejected as being too 'out there' essentially. It would have been so far back in time that the alignments hadn't yet seperated out from a 5-fold axis of a plane each of good, evil, chaos, law, and neutrality where Sigil had only just been created and that perhaps even The Lady didn't quite resemble what she did in the present era.

As far as the Illithid era: the Blood War had been raging for eons before the Illithids ever existed, lets be certain about that. And the prime is infinite as well, so despite the size of their empire on the prime, astral and ethereal, let's keep things in perspective. It would have likely had a marginal impact on the 'geography' of the outer planes.

As well, the Wind Dukes vs Queen of Chaos thing has never been placed within the timescale or history of the Blood War in anything Planescape. I'd personally place it as a small scale conflict that impacted Oerth primarily and got enlarged in subsequent legend. The Queen of Chaos was apparently a Tanar'ri, so it's possible it grew out of an incursion of Tanar'ri into Mechanus or a war on the prime between those small subset of Tanar'ri and a now largely vanished race of Mechanus natives. A sliver of a conflict compared to the Blood War. At least that's how I incorporate that with the Planescape mythology of the Blood War.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 22, 2004 3:19:56	Okay, I have a question. Sorry if this is a bit long-winded. The Outer Planes conform to belief, and as humans are the most common species (found just about everywhere, on almost every Prime world) the Great Ring seems to conform to a human way of thinking about personality types - humans are just about the only race that exhibits every alignment with equal quantity, and so the only race to have a roughly equal number of petitioners on every Outer Plane. However, when the Illithid empire existed, the dominant world view of the planes would have been very different. Good, for example, would have been an irrelevant concept to the alien mindflayers and their slaves, and so presumably the Outer Planes would have looked totally different. Now, of course, the Illithids have a tiny part in the planes - Ilsensine is banished to a hole in the ground in the Outlands, for example. My question is, what would the Illithid planes have looked like? How would they have been divided, if not by alignment (not the most important factor to the almost excusively LE mindflayers)?
#2 nightdruid Oct 22, 2004 6:36:58	Hmmm. Well, for one, I think of the artifact Rod of Seven Parts, and particularly that "back then", the law-chaos axis was very important (lawful wind dukes v. hordes of chaos), and illithid beliefs would fit into that. Thus, to illithids, they might see themselves as "lawful", and everyone else (especially the gith after they freed themselves) as chaotic. Maybe the lawful and chaotic planes both held greater importance then, and the planes of conflict were smaller/less important. Just some ramblings...
#3 GothicDan Oct 22, 2004 13:13:25	Remember that there is no true geographical makeup to the Outer Planes, so they wouldn't "look different" at all. There would probably be a high prevalence of certain types (evil types, more baatezu, etc.) than good types (Celestials), but the Outer Planes would remain the same, I believe. Just because an Illithid doesn't believe that what he is doing is evil doesn't make it "not evil" by D&D's alignment specifics. If he did evil, it would propagate the Lower Planes, no matter what the Illithid thought about it.
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 22, 2004 14:46:14	Whether they think they're evil or not is irrelevant, but the attitude propagated by the Illithid empire doesn't sound conducive to good - even escaped slaves (Githyanki and Githzerai) have no real interest in the concept. I agree with Nightdruid that law and chaos do seem to be more important factors; if there's more evil than good, then evil overwhelms good and becomes the status quo (instead of just being evil - there's no contrast with anything else, no flipside to the coin). All I'm really trying to do is establish roughly what people think the setting would have been like. Presumably Illithids would have had a larger part to play, and the planar cosmology wouldn't be so centred on humans. You can't have an empire that powerful, with that much belief behindit without having some sort of effect on the planes - to go back to an earlier point, at the very least Ilsensine must have been more powerful (with far more worshippers), even if the planes didn't look totally different. I saw this interview somewhere with one of the PS designers, who talked about this idea of going backwards in time to an era when the planes would be different - just generic planes of good, evil, law and chaos, with nothing in between. I just thought it would be interesting to do the same thing, but with an alien philsophy.
#5 Shemeska_the_Marauder Oct 22, 2004 17:22:35	I saw this interview somewhere with one of the PS designers, who talked about this idea of going backwards in time to an era when the planes would be different - just generic planes of good, evil, law and chaos, with nothing in between. I just thought it would be interesting to do the same thing, but with an alien philsophy. I believe that was an adventure idea posited by Monte Cook that they never got to do, the idea got rejected as being too 'out there' essentially. It would have been so far back in time that the alignments hadn't yet seperated out from a 5-fold axis of a plane each of good, evil, chaos, law, and neutrality where Sigil had only just been created and that perhaps even The Lady didn't quite resemble what she did in the present era. As far as the Illithid era: the Blood War had been raging for eons before the Illithids ever existed, lets be certain about that. And the prime is infinite as well, so despite the size of their empire on the prime, astral and ethereal, let's keep things in perspective. It would have likely had a marginal impact on the 'geography' of the outer planes. As well, the Wind Dukes vs Queen of Chaos thing has never been placed within the timescale or history of the Blood War in anything Planescape. I'd personally place it as a small scale conflict that impacted Oerth primarily and got enlarged in subsequent legend. The Queen of Chaos was apparently a Tanar'ri, so it's possible it grew out of an incursion of Tanar'ri into Mechanus or a war on the prime between those small subset of Tanar'ri and a now largely vanished race of Mechanus natives. A sliver of a conflict compared to the Blood War. At least that's how I incorporate that with the Planescape mythology of the Blood War.