1. First the editing was horrible, the worst edited roleplaying product I have ever read. There were few pages where a mistake was not made. Several times the rough draft see page XXX was left in the product. One map was keyed wrong. Over and over again areas of the text were marked as read aloud when they were not. A gully dwarf was listed as having 172 hit points. Many many sentences were missing words or were left half-finished. At other points the sentences were incredibly akward.
2. Another problem was references to parts left out. For example the text both refers to a non-existant players handout and to a nonexistant appendix.
3. At other points the product just assumes we have too much information. For example whats a kender forlorn? What product are they detailed in? That information would have been useful. Ditto for ogre titans. Guess what not everybody owns every dragonlance product so a reference to what your talking about would be useful.
4. Guess what its sometimes okay to leave the pcs in the dark, but its never okay to leave the dms in the dark. The synopsis of the adventure just lists the locations the pcs go to. It should have an overview of what is going on. As it is after reading the book I am totally in the dark about whats happening. Its okay to leave me in the dark if its a novel, but its an adventure and I shouldn't need to wait to the next product to know what the heck's going on.
5. Adventures usually need a plot. Having a spirit or a prophet tell the characters "go to location A" is not a plot. Especially since after they finish with location A, a spirit or prophet appears to tell them to go to location B. The really bad part is is that there not told what they are supposed to do at the location, only that they need to go there. Its like the writer couldn't figure out a way to get the pcs involved so he just resorted to connecting unconnected areas.
6. The dialogue is incredibly corny. If I used that with my players they would laugh me out of the room.
7. The alignment choices are not the greatest. For example there are a group of Assasins who try to kill the pcs for witnessing one of there murders. What is the alignment of these assasins? Yeah thats right nuetral. At other times the pcs are arbitralily punished for not taking the actions that the writer has decided should be morally chosen.
8. Also there are quite a few ways the adventure can be fouled up, but the author assumes that the pcs are mindless puppets and hey if that doesn't work one can always have another spirit appear.
9. The two main villians at the end have no personality or background there just random bad guys that have fairly random goals.
10. Whats with the artifacts: keys of quinarost, shard of light, tears of mishakal, huma's lance...(that isn't all of them). Why don't we just declare the pcs gods and call it a day.
All in all it showed standard dragonlance quality. (though the war of the lance book was actually worth the money for once).
For the sake of Bob. Why is everyone so ****? And why does everyone pontificate so much?
Given, there were a lot of mistakes in the KoD. Guess what? My campaign, and those of a lot of other people, are working fine...even WITHOT the errata. A lot of your points are pure opinion, so stop acting like modern clergy with your "this is bad text because I say so" schtick. Pull your head out of your nether region and get on with life. If you hate it so much, don't buy any more Sovereign Press material.
As far as I'm concerned, Sov P could put out the worst material in the world if they wanted to. I'm sincerely appreciative that they are taking the time, energy, and money to give me the Dragonlance product that I love.
I'm so sick of naysayers.
I have major problems with this product which I just bought a couple of days ago and finished reading yesterday.
[snip]
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, even if they are not the most flattering of the product. Key of Destiny is our most error-ridden product, one that I wish we had more time to playtest, edit, and proofread. The manuscript was turned in late, so even to get it out on the later release date we had to double-time it, causing many of the errors. Despite its problems, however, Key of Destiny was the first of our products to copletely sell out, and will be the first we reprint. And while it does have its share of problems, I certainly don't think it's the worst d20 System product published (because there are some doozies out there).
We always have to walk a fine line in our small company, between satisfying the demand for quality gaming products and satisfying the fans who want a new Dragonlance release every month. I believe we're improving on both sides, but I'll leave the fans (collectively) to be the ultimate judge.
We are listening, and many things wrong with Key of Destiny will be much improved in Spectre of Sorrows.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
So if you're implying that DL is normally of sub-standard quality, why do you continue to buy it?
First I bought The dragonlance campaign setting, because once upon a time dragonlance was my favorite campaign setting and I wanted to have an edition of it that didn't use saga rules (having long ago lost my second edition copy). Now the book had among the worst text density of any product I have bought. I skipped the age of mortals book because I believed it was overpriced and it didn't seem well done to me. Next I skipped the dragonlance bestiary because it had the least amount of monsters that I can remember from any hardcover monster manual. Next I bought the war of the lance book because the war of the lance was my favorite time, plus the product actually looked to be worth the money. The book actually turned out to be good so on the strength of that product I bought the key of destiny. Does that answer your question? (also by substandard dragonlance I mean the whole line from 2nd edition onwards. Its not all bad, but I believe there was more bad then good).
/tissue
Given, there were a lot of mistakes in the KoD. Guess what? My campaign, and those of a lot of other people, are working fine...even WITHOT the errata.
Errors in general are rarely life threatening unless they are in the core 3 books. But to me errors show a laziness, like the developer couldn't be bothered to fix the mistakes.
/tissue
A lot of your points are pure opinion, so stop acting like modern clergy with your "this is bad text because I say so" schtick. Pull your head out of your nether region and get on with life. If you hate it so much, don't buy any more Sovereign Press material.
Um, this a forum right? Where else do opinions go. (also I haven't checked this forum in a while so if there are other complaint threads that I missed I apologize for not noticing them). On my list 5, 6 and 7 are opinion. 1-4 and 7-10 are all based in things that are indisputable (you may not believe that they are a problem but you can hardly argue that the two main villians are missing a background. You may believe that giving each pc there own artifact is fine, but that doesn't change the fact that the adventure has more artifacts than any adventure this side of die, vecna, die.) If you want opinion heres one: The legion of steel is the corniest/worst idea to come out of the fifth age which was filled with corny/bad ideas.
/tissue
As far as I'm concerned, Sov P could put out the worst material in the world if they wanted to.
I wouldn't be proud of that. In other words fans who buy whatever is put out no matter how bad it is, teach the developers that quality is not important, just slap a dragonlance sticker on any old piece of crap and hey the fans will buy it. Fans like that are why dragonlance has had so many problems.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, even if they are not the most flattering of the product. Key of Destiny is our most error-ridden product, one that I wish we had more time to playtest, edit, and proofread. The manuscript was turned in late, so even to get it out on the later release date we had to double-time it, causing many of the errors.
Okay so the blame goes to the author and not the editor and the developers, I can understand that.
Despite its problems, however, Key of Destiny was the first of our products to copletely sell out, and will be the first we reprint.
Baywatch was immensly popular.
And while it does have its share of problems, I certainly don't think it's the worst d20 System product published (because there are some doozies out there).
No its nowhere near the worst. I own more than 50 d20 products (including star wars, d20 modern and others). Of those in my collection it ranks 3rd worst after heroes of light and champions of darkness both from ravenloft. Now that isn't as damning as it seems, because I only buy things that I am at least semi-convinced are high quality to begin with. I was wrong here, but I won't think it was a waste of money if the second two books are good. Now it is the worst editited d20 product that I own, but some of the more crappy 3rd party books are probably edited worst.
However, I still carry the same base reaction. If you are saying a bit of your post was opinion, then I respectfully renig on the gist of my post. When I read your post initially, and even looking back at it now, it does look like everything listed is presented by you as fact, when in actuality that is not the case.
And Baywatch rocked. Can we have more hourglass shapes bouncing around in Dragonlance please?
Okay so the blame goes to the author and not the editor and the developers, I can understand that.
As the publisher, I'll take responsibility for the quality of the product. I believe there are certain steps we could have taken to avoid some of the problems with Key of Destiny, and we learn something new with each product we publish. I hope you'll agree that our level of quality has gone up with each release (something I genuinely believe). While the lateness of the manuscript was certainly a problem, it was not the only one.
I think (almost) everyone will be happy with the quality of Spectre of Sorrows.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
When can I get my hands on a second printing of Key of Destiny?
You can't -- yet. We are reprinting it early next year, to support the release of Spectre of Sorrows.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
P.S. My sincere thanks to Sov Press, not just for the AOM campaign but also for bringing back to life one of my all time favourite settings. Keep up the good work guys.
Key of Destiny is the best adventure that I've ever red.
The support that Sovereign Press have released, errata, explanations and so on, is very good.
The errors in the manual are explained in the errata.
I think that Spectre of Sorrow will be a better manual, because the authors have promised it.
So let's play this bautiful adventure!
Just out of curisoity, will the second printing of KoD contain the errata and typo corrections? I thought I was alone in being very confusing and flustered when I was being refered to page XXX and handouts that did exsist. Of course I understood the situation for what it was. As a grammar freak, I tend to notice every spelling and grammatical error in every product I read. In the end I thought the final product as a whole is very good and I will be either playing it or using it as an info accessory in the future. Thanks SP!
The second printing of Key of Destiny will contain corrections based on the errata discovered so far. Thanks!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
When I read your post initially, and even looking back at it now, it does look like everything listed is presented by you as fact, when in actuality that is not the case.
My first sentence was "I have major problems with this product which I just bought a couple of days ago and finished reading yesterday." Note the key word "I" in the sentence. The post was a list of things that I did not agree with. Most people when they don't like a movie they say "that movie sucks. Keanu Reeves is an awful actor". etc They rarely preface it with "In my opinion".
And honestly if my post had been presented as 10 reasons key of destiny is the greatest adventure ever written. I doubt you would have posted a response complaining that I had presented opinion as fact.
Finally only 30% of the list is pure opinion (the rest are at least part fact). And I would say that 6. is also fact since I found a thread on this board where somebody also used the words corny to describe the dialogue. I had not seen that thread when I wrote my original post.
Key of Destiny is the best adventure that I've ever red.
The support that Sovereign Press have released, errata, explanations and so on, is very good.
The errors in the manual are explained in the errata.
I think that Spectre of Sorrow will be a better manual, because the authors have promised it.
So let's play this bautiful adventure!
Finally can somebody tell me where kender forlorn and ogre titans are detailed?
Finally can somebody tell me where kender forlorn and ogre titans are detailed?
The Forlorn Kender are in the errata for Key of Destiny, which can be found at www.dragonlance.com -- while the information on Ogre Titans can be found in the Age of Mortals supplement.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
As far as I'm concerned, Sov P could put out the worst material in the world if they wanted to. I'm sincerely appreciative that they are taking the time, energy, and money to give me the Dragonlance product that I love.
How is putting out bad material(Not saying that is what SP is doing.) equate to "taking the time, energy, and money to give you the Dragonlance product that you love" ? Do you love bad products ? I have heard of brown nosing before, but this(The statement in italics.) takes the cake.
~~~
How is putting out bad material(Not saying that is what SP is doing.) equate to "taking the time, energy, and money to give you the Dragonlance product that you love" ? Do you love bad products ? I have heard of brown nosing before, but this(The statement in italics.) takes the cake.
~~~
This is pure speculation but I think what he was trying to get across was that it is far better to have product support for DL than none at all. Which I would agree with.
2. Agreed.
3. If you don't own the product what are the odds that you will buy it for the reference?
4. Agreed.
5. The adventure does say it is suppose to have the PC's feel like they are being dragged around by more powerful forces a few times...... doesn't it?
6. I felt there was nothing wrong with it, and I think at this point it is no longer constructive criticism.
7. See #6.
8. Nothing a good DM can't fix.
9. See #8.
10. See #8.
as for compairing it to the standard Dragonlance quality, why do you conitnue to purchase the products if you are this unhappy? I will admit I was onboard with your comments for awhile and although you are happy to have and express your opinion, I think you are missing a big point. It is not often that someone with such an important, and I would imagine, time consuming job as Jamie Chambers would even bother to read let alone take the time to respond five times to your complaint. I think we should all take a minute to thank him for that. Now I am not a publisher or writer (and I am sure I have many errors in this post), so I am not sure how much right I have to say this but, I was rather disappointed in SP about this product. I did expect more from fellow fans of the Dragonlance world and I would rather wait a long time to get a good product then have a substandard product right away, for all of us that do complain about the lateness of SP products, perhaps KOD is the result of our eager voices. With that said, thank you Jamie, for taking the time and thanks to every one at SP for bringing Dragonlance back into the light, I have dearly missed it.
My first sentence was "I have major problems with this product which I just bought a couple of days ago and finished reading yesterday." Note the key word "I" in the sentence. The post was a list of things that I did not agree with. Most people when they don't like a movie they say "that movie sucks. Keanu Reeves is an awful actor". etc They rarely preface it with "In my opinion".
No - I'll go so far as to admit that I was definitely too strong in my initial post, but the text above doesn't insinuate at all that you are stating opinion. All it says is that you personally have problems with flaws that are factual things.
But it doesn't matter too much, considering we can agree to disagree.
And honestly if my post had been presented as 10 reasons key of destiny is the greatest adventure ever written. I doubt you would have posted a response complaining that I had presented opinion as fact.
This is something I can't prove either way, but I'll have to disagree, naturally. Balance is the key - not overwhelming vilification or fanboi remarks.
How is putting out bad material(Not saying that is what SP is doing.) equate to "taking the time, energy, and money to give you the Dragonlance product that you love" ? Do you love bad products ? I have heard of brown nosing before, but this(The statement in italics.) takes the cake.
Sysane hit it on the nose.
And brown-nosing? I insist that you're joking here. The only reason a person would brown-nose is if they thought it would benefit them in some way...and doing that here wouldn't benefit me at all. What's more - I'd rather be thought of a brown-noser than of a...well...never mind.
3. If you don't own the product what are the odds that you will buy it for the reference?
That does not mean that they should not tell us where the reference is. Tell us what product so we have an idea of where it is, its ridiculous to assume we know where everything is. I own MM, MM2, fiend folio, book of fiends, CC, CC2, CC3, monsters of faerun, denizens of darkness, and others. If a product uses a monster from MM2 it would be nice if they told me so I didn't have to go searching everywhere for it. Also the war of the lance did the same thing with feal-thas winternorn class. Also I have friends who own products and with the reference I can check there books. Can you legitamately argue that the reference should not be listed. Also note the kender forlorn is detailed nowhere. (except in online errata, and not everyone is online)
5. The adventure does say it is suppose to have the PC's feel like they are being dragged around by more powerful forces a few times...... doesn't it?
Note this was an opinion and honestly it seems like a copout to me. Like I can't figure out how to get the pc's from A to B so lets just have spirits show up to tell them where to go. Lets mutter some mumbo jumbo about powerful forces as an excuse. Also it wouldn't bother me as much if the players were let in on why they need to go from location to location. If the pcs had some goal, like you need to get huma's lance for this reason and the shard of light for this reason. Hell even as the dm I don't know why they needed to go to the shattered temple or the mountain above kendermore. If the only use the shard of light is is that it glows on huma's lance I think thats the dumbest reason ever to go through a dungeon. The lance was only in the next room I have confidence that my pcs could find it without the shard of light. Also my pcs aren't going to do something just because spirits tell them to.
6. I felt there was nothing wrong with it, and I think at this point it is no longer constructive criticism.
7. See #6.
I mentioned in one post and its being overharped whatever. Note also that in another thread which I did not see until later somebody else used words very close to mine to explain the language. Honestly the dialogue would be fine if I was still eleven, but I am 23 now and its just too funny to use. As for the alignment I mentioned it once, and I don't know of any other threads about it. If you think its fine to have witness killing assasins being neutral aligned, thats fine it was my opinion.
8. Nothing a good DM can't fix.
9. See #8.
10. See #8.
.
There is NOTHING a good DM can't fix. But this adventure would take so much work that I might as well not have bought it. There are lot of good adventures that don't need to be fixed, so the excuse that it can be fixed is not a great one.
as for compairing it to the standard Dragonlance quality, why do you conitnue to purchase the products if you are this unhappy? .
second verse same as the first:
First I bought The dragonlance campaign setting, because once upon a time dragonlance was my favorite campaign setting and I wanted to have an edition of it that didn't use saga rules (having long ago lost my second edition copy). Now the book had among the worst text density of any product I have bought. I skipped the age of mortals book because I believed it was overpriced and it didn't seem well done to me. Next I skipped the dragonlance bestiary because it had the least amount of monsters that I can remember from any hardcover monster manual. Next I bought the war of the lance book because the war of the lance was my favorite time, plus the product actually looked to be worth the money. The book actually turned out to be good so on the strength of that product I bought the key of destiny. Does that answer your question? (also by substandard dragonlance I mean the whole line from 2nd edition onwards. Its not all bad, but I believe there was more bad then good).
I will admit I was onboard with your comments for awhile and although you are happy to have and express your opinion, I think you are missing a big point. It is not often that someone with such an important, and I would imagine, time consuming job as Jamie Chambers would even bother to read let alone take the time to respond five times to your complaint. I think we should all take a minute to thank him for that.
I am trying not to laugh here, that is so much blatant hero worship that I am trying not to gag. He responded three times (the other times were to other people). First he responded to my comments and blamed the author. I called him out on it which succeeded in getting him to take it back. Finally he gave the information on where the monsters were detailed. And this is a messageboard not run by chambers company. If I needed to hear from him I would have used a different message board. In no way did I ask for his response, so I shouldn't be beholden to him that he responded so many times. In fact Monte Cook said it best that developers, writers, etc should not respond to messageboard criticism, especially on messageboards you are not affliated with.
Now I am not a publisher or writer (and I am sure I have many errors in this post), so I am not sure how much right I have to say this but, I was rather disappointed in SP about this product. I did expect more from fellow fans of the Dragonlance world and I would rather wait a long time to get a good product then have a substandard product right away, for all of us that do complain about the lateness of SP products, perhaps KOD is the result of our eager voices. With that said, thank you Jamie, for taking the time and thanks to every one at SP for bringing Dragonlance back into the light, I have dearly missed it.
You paid money for the product (I assume unless you stole it), thus you have the right to complain. Even though you were dissapointed in the product you found the time to defend the product and praise the developer by name (including once by first name) several times. I mean I was a little harsh in my response here, but things like this is why I honestly believe dragonlance has had so many problems
I am trying not to laugh here, that is so much blatant hero worship that I am trying not to gag. He responded three times (the other times were to other people). First he responded to my comments and blamed the author. I called him out on it which succeeded in getting him to take it back. Finally he gave the information on where the monsters were detailed. And this is a messageboard not run by chambers company. If I needed to hear from him I would have used a different message board. In no way did I ask for his response, so I shouldn't be beholden to him that he responded so many times. In fact Monte Cook said it best that developers, writers, etc should not respond to messageboard criticism, especially on messageboards you are not affliated with.
While you are correct that no one asked for me to post on these boards, your quote above makes it sound as if I'm not welcome at all. I can certainly save myself some time and effort each day by restricting myself to the Dragonlance.com boards, but I like to see what people have to say here as well.
While I respect Monte's opinion (and know that it is hard-earned from experience), I've tried to communicate openly with our customers on this and other forums. Some fans are so negative, however, that no response is good enough (or product, for that matter).
We are listening, and I truly believe our quality is improving. Spectre of Sorrows is shaping up to be a truly nice adventure, and I hope that many of you will check it out.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Some fans are so negative, however, that no response is good enough (or product, for that matter).
Jamie for the win.
Frandel, just because we don't agree with a lot of the points that you make on your post doesn't mean that it's hero worship. I think the main difference here is that you're looking at Dragonlance material from a purely consumer viewpoint, while I and many others here see it from that of a fan. It's not so much who even writes the stuff...it's Dragonlance material, and for that we are appreciative it exists.
Compare it to a musical artist one might like: if the latest album of that artist comes out, and it sucks, I'll still buy it because it will give me a little more of that artist's work.
(P.S.: Someone else who plays EV Nova! Yay!)
(P.P.S.: A hearty congrats to sov. press, i like all their stuff i have)
First I bought The dragonlance campaign setting, because once upon a time dragonlance was my favorite campaign setting and I wanted to have an edition of it that didn't use saga rules (having long ago lost my second edition copy). Now the book had among the worst text density of any product I have bought. I skipped the age of mortals book because I believed it was overpriced and it didn't seem well done to me. Next I skipped the dragonlance bestiary because it had the least amount of monsters that I can remember from any hardcover monster manual. Next I bought the war of the lance book because the war of the lance was my favorite time, plus the product actually looked to be worth the money. The book actually turned out to be good so on the strength of that product I bought the key of destiny. Does that answer your question? (also by substandard dragonlance I mean the whole line from 2nd edition onwards. Its not all bad, but I believe there was more bad then good).
Than again I ask you, why do you continue to purchase Dragonlance products? So you can continue to be dissapointed?I am trying not to laugh here, that is so much blatant hero worship that I am trying not to gag. He responded three times (the other times were to other people). First he responded to my comments and blamed the author. I called him out on it which succeeded in getting him to take it back. Finally he gave the information on where the monsters were detailed. And this is a messageboard not run by chambers company. If I needed to hear from him I would have used a different message board. In no way did I ask for his response, so I shouldn't be beholden to him that he responded so many times. In fact Monte Cook said it best that developers, writers, etc should not respond to messageboard criticism, especially on messageboards you are not affliated with.
I think you are confusing hero worship with respect. Jamie showed you respect, I was trying to suggest that perhaps you should have returned the favour. Perhaps he should not address his customers when not asked to, but what were you hoping to achieve by your post? Just complaining for the sake of it? I assume you wanted to share your opinion with someone, but were unprepared for those that disagree with you?You paid money for the product (I assume unless you stole it), thus you have the right to complain. Even though you were dissapointed in the product you found the time to defend the product and praise the developer by name (including once by first name) several times. I mean I was a little harsh in my response here, but things like this is why I honestly believe dragonlance has had so many problems
I don't need to buy the product to have the right to complain. Everyone has the right to complain about anything. Just like I am complaining about your, what seems to be, hostility towards.....well everthing. I think what people need to do before they start to complain is stop and think, should I?Frandel, just because we don't agree with a lot of the points that you make on your post doesn't mean that it's hero worship. I think the main difference here is that you're looking at Dragonlance material from a purely consumer viewpoint, while I and many others here see it from that of a fan. It's not so much who even writes the stuff...it's Dragonlance material, and for that we are appreciative it exists.
This describes me all right. Thanks for finding the words Ashaman Nash. Frandel, I am aware that I asked you questions but I am really not looking for an answer from you, just want to make you think about it. I can see you enjoy debating, (as many of us do) when you start up another post, let me know so we can go another round on a different subject! Happy complaining!
I am trying not to laugh here, that is so much blatant hero worship that I am trying not to gag. He responded three times (the other times were to other people). First he responded to my comments and blamed the author. I called him out on it which succeeded in getting him to take it back. Finally he gave the information on where the monsters were detailed. And this is a messageboard not run by chambers company. If I needed to hear from him I would have used a different message board. In no way did I ask for his response, so I shouldn't be beholden to him that he responded so many times. In fact Monte Cook said it best that developers, writers, etc should not respond to messageboard criticism, especially on messageboards you are not affliated with.
Wait, wait, wait...let's have two scenarios here:
Me: Hey, Jamie! What's Kraka-Lakin?
Jamie: Nothin's Shakin' but the Bacon!
Me: Yo diggity.
Jamie: So, what up, Dawg?
Me: Well, I had a criticism about blah blah blah...
Jamie: Really? Huh. Well, I guess we'd better work on that. Here, take this free autographed copy of The War of the Lance book.
Me: Thanks, dawg!
or...
Me: Hey, Mr. Chambers! I have a criticism about-
Jamie: Do you work for me?
Me: No...but I bought this book-
Jamie: You paid for it?
Me: Well, yeah...
Jamie: Then I don't care.
So, you would honestly prefer the second scenario to the first?!
PS: Jamie, if you would be willing to send me a copy of the War of the Lance book, I wouldn't complain...
Me: Hey, Jamie! What's Kraka-Lakin?
Jamie: Nothin's Shakin' but the Bacon!
Me: Yo diggity.
Jamie: So, what up, Dawg?
Me: Well, I had a criticism about blah blah blah...
Jamie: Really? Huh. Well, I guess we'd better work on that. Here, take this free autographed copy of The War of the Lance book.
Me: Thanks, dawg!
"Word, even unto thy mother."
--Boyz in the Robin Hood
While you are correct that no one asked for me to post on these boards, your quote above makes it sound as if I'm not welcome at all. I can certainly save myself some time and effort each day by restricting myself to the Dragonlance.com boards, but I like to see what people have to say here as well.
My point was that alpha implied that I should be thrilled that you deigned to respond to little old me. The response from me to him was more about him than you. I don't really care if you post or not. Also I used monte cooks point because the dragonlance and forgotten realms novel boards got torn down because of the authors involvement, ie. the authors posted on the boards and couldn't take the criticism (a lot of it ridiculous) and got the boards closed down. So its not always healthy for those involved to post.
Frandel, just because we don't agree with a lot of the points that you make on your post doesn't mean that it's hero worship. I think the main difference here is that you're looking at Dragonlance material from a purely consumer viewpoint, while I and many others here see it from that of a fan. It's not so much who even writes the stuff...it's Dragonlance material, and for that we are appreciative it exists.
Compare it to a musical artist one might like: if the latest album of that artist comes out, and it sucks, I'll still buy it because it will give me a little more of that artist's work.
First I didn't claim everybody was hero worshipping, just alpha. First he says that I should be grateful that chambers diegned to respond to me. He says that the whole point of the thread is not that the product is bad it is that chambers is such a wonderful person that he took the time out of his hectic schedule to wander among us lessers. Next alpha mentioned that he got the product and was dissapointed, but he jumped in to this thread to defend it and implies that since were not writers we don't have the right to criticise it.
Furthermore he then blames the fans for the products crappiness. Our own eagerness forced the developer to put out the product and thats why there are problems. Finally he calls the developer Jamie. If I make a post about stephen king, I don't call him stephen in my post. Seriously using the first name alone is enough without the rest.
Also supporting bad products because they have a certain label on it is fanaticism not fandom. Also its insular, because less new people will come in if the product is not up to snuff. And the reason it angers me is that it teaches the producers that quality is not an issue. There is a reason that tsr put out so many crappy novels and products and responses like these are the reason.
i don't have KoD but i looked through the first few(7-10) pages at a store and i descovered 0, nil, none errors. I am amazed that someone could so emphaticialy dislike KoD(From my limited sample, sure)
This is very laughable. Everybody else here has confirmed that there are a lot of errors in the product, but your going to take the other position because you flipped through it in a store? Seriously your going to do that? Not only that your going to say that your sure the product is good because you flipped through it. I mean if somebody is going to defend the product they at least could read it. You Know what the new margaret wies dragonlance book sucks. I haven't read it, but I am convinced from reading the inside flap that it sucks.
Than again I ask you, why do you continue to purchase Dragonlance products? So you can continue to be dissapointed?
I could say third verse same as the first, but since your obviously not reading my response why bother. I think the explanation of my path to KoD is reasonable.
I think you are confusing hero worship with respect. Jamie showed you respect, I was trying to suggest that perhaps you should have returned the favour. Perhaps he should not address his customers when not asked to, but what were you hoping to achieve by your post? Just complaining for the sake of it? I assume you wanted to share your opinion with someone, but were unprepared for those that disagree with you?
Your point seems to be that he is the developer and deserves more respect then anybody else here. Maybe if it was his companies messageboard. But the fact is that if he posts here I will treat him like anybody else. And yes its more than just respect when you are on a first name basis with him. My post was to people in general and I'll treat responses the same. Say you disagree with me and I'll be fine. Claim that I am misrepresenting opinion as fact or act as a fanboy or defend the product when you haven't read it and I will be harsh.
I don't need to buy the product to have the right to complain. Everyone has the right to complain about anything.
Thats not what you said before:
"Now I am not a publisher or writer (and I am sure I have many errors in this post), so I am not sure how much right I have to say this but, I was rather disappointed in SP about this product"
Let's stop now to chat of meta-forum...
Sorry for my interruption.
For the most part, those here disagree with the strong negative judgment. Let's call it a day.
Here! Here! Move along. Nothing to see.
*waves hand*
These are not the droids you're looking for. ;)