he's always been my favourite character, and want to know them ;)
Anyone have 'em?
he's always been my favourite character, and want to know them ;)
If you want his final 'kicking the collective behinds of the armies of Abyss' stats you'll have to wait until the Legends sourcebook comes out.
His apprentice stats are INACCURATE as any fool who has read The Soulforge knows. Sleep was the first spell he cast, and it is NOT on his apprentice's spell list! Pshaw! That's the biggest problem with ToHS! Anyway, enough with my ranting. I'll be waiting eagerly for the Legends sourcebook too.
He has it in the War of the Lance sourcebook, so it's clear he got it eventually. Didn't he cast it right off a scroll or spellbook?
Cheers,
Cam
He has it in the War of the Lance sourcebook, so it's clear he got it eventually. Didn't he cast it right off a scroll or spellbook?
I thought it was a scroll, not a spell he memorized. But that's just going from memory...which may be poor.
He has it in the War of the Lance sourcebook, so it's clear he got it eventually. Didn't he cast it right off a scroll or spellbook?
Cheers,
Cam
If we follow game rules it'd have to be a scroll, since you can't cast spells off of a spellbook.
(slightly tangential) Can't you? I could have sworn you could, even someone else's with a decipher script check or a Read Magic spell.
(slightly tangential) Can't you? I could have sworn you could, even someone else's with a decipher script check or a Read Magic spell.
This probably doesn't help...but I know you can in Hackmaster (which uses 1st Edition rules, I think). But I don't know if you can anymore.
Unless of course the page that it is written on in your spellbook crumbles to dust after casting the spell.
In which case why would you do it then?
If it does not crumble to dust then the make scroll feat is kinda moot because you could just whip out your handy dandy spellbook and read it from that.
Granted the higher you got your would have to carry around a crapload of spellbooks to do this but you gotta figure that a wizard that is going on an adventure would already have their spellbook/s with them.
Either way I never thought that you could cast it from a spellbook. Maybe you can it is just a matter of no one does because it would erase it from your spellbook. So they just copy them down to scrolls.
This is a direct quote from the 3.5 D&D FAQ:
Can a wizard cast a spell directly from his spellbook? If so what effects on the spellbook are there?
No, you cannot use a spellbook like a scroll. A spellbook contains notes for preparing a spell, but it’s not a precast spell just waiting to be activated as a scroll is.
His apprentice stats are INACCURATE as any fool who has read The Soulforge knows. Sleep was the first spell he cast, and it is NOT on his apprentice's spell list! Pshaw! That's the biggest problem with ToHS! Anyway, enough with my ranting. I'll be waiting eagerly for the Legends sourcebook too.
IIRC, his second spell was illusion (when he made Tas look like a giant kender to ridicule a cult). At the time of casting both the sleep and illusion spells though, he was not issued a spellbook. He hadn't even taken his apprentice test yet to see if he had magical aptitude (the "I am Magus" scroll test) He DID have to learn the spells to a certain degree as the book went into how Raist studied for many hours or more the nuances he needed to know in order to be able to scribe the scrolls for both sleep and illusion. He actually used the sleep spell for the first time (successfully) on none other than Caramon IIRC.
You cannot cast spells off of a spellbook, so if the choice is a spellbook or scroll from which Raistlin cast his sleep spell, then it is no choice at all, and it must be the scroll.
This is a direct quote from the 3.5 D&D FAQ:
Right. But I remember reading that you can prepare a spell on the fly right from your spellbook - or someone else's, with a DS check or a read magic spell - if you have an open spell slot. And it takes several minutes, so it's not a terribly useful combat tactic.
Anyway, possible or not, it's really probably not how Raistlin cast Sleep.
As to whether it is more efficient to cast spells from a scroll book versus a scroll that would depend on the situation.
In the safety of your laboratory oo library it would be better to cast from spellbook. In the wild or during combat from a scroll. Imagine trying to cast a spell from a spellbook while being attacked by a longsword wielding warrior. Eventhe dumbest fighter could figure out that the magic is coming form the book so why attack the caster when you can destroy the source with one big swing. Also it is a lot easier to organize your spells for combat or ease of use when they are in scroll form.
You take out a scroll, cast it, and the scroll burns up. You immediately go back to defensive posture or start fishing around for another scroll or wand, staff, rod, etc...
Try that with a spellbook in the middle of combat.
Take a round to dig in pack for book (expose self to Attacks of opportunity). Flip to right page, cast spell. Decide to put book back or drop and pull weapon,rod,wand,etc... If put book back-take full round to do so. (again exposing self to AOOs).
Yes, much more efficient (in comabat at least) to cast from scrolls.
I personally think there it should be a standard abilty that any wizard can cast spells from scrollbooks. I mean come on, how do you think aprrentice mages cast spells.
As to whether it is more efficient to cast spells from a scroll book versus a scroll that would depend on the situation.
In the safety of your laboratory oo library it would be better to cast from spellbook. In the wild or during combat from a scroll. Imagine trying to cast a spell from a spellbook while being attacked by a longsword wielding warrior. Eventhe dumbest fighter could figure out that the magic is coming form the book so why attack the caster when you can destroy the source with one big swing. Also it is a lot easier to organize your spells for combat or ease of use when they are in scroll form.
You take out a scroll, cast it, and the scroll burns up. You immediately go back to defensive posture or start fishing around for another scroll or wand, staff, rod, etc...
Try that with a spellbook in the middle of combat.
Take a round to dig in pack for book (expose self to Attacks of opportunity). Flip to right page, cast spell. Decide to put book back or drop and pull weapon,rod,wand,etc... If put book back-take full round to do so. (again exposing self to AOOs).
Yes, much more efficient (in comabat at least) to cast from scrolls.
The only problem with this thinking is that full fledged wizards don't carry around a stack of scrolls or read from books to cast their spells. They memorize them daily, then cast them from memory. If they didn't then you'd have a useless character class unless they sacrificed one of their feats to get scribe scroll.
They need their books to memorize the spells. If they need a particular spell they don't have memorized, or don't have enough spell slots for, then a wizard typically resorts to scrolls.In the case of Raistlin (at least early on in his career as a wizard) he did not yet have a spell book, much less ready access to scrolls for scribing. I remember now, he taught himself sleep, and cast that from memory. He later took his apprentice test (the "I am Magus" scroll test). From this, he learned how to scribe scrolls, and later wrote his first spell on a scroll which was the 2nd spell he ever learned- illusion. He recited illusion from the scroll. Thing is, in order to scribe a scroll yourself, you have to be able to cast the spell. That was why Raistlin got incredibly weakened after scribing the scroll for illusion, which took him almost an entire day to do in the first place.
Also, seeing as how Soulforge is by Margaret Weis, I don't know how anyone could argue that what happened in the pages of this book isn't canon. To that end, anyone who does want to argue that has to go through Thrune and me as well.
edit- oops, my bad Darthsylver. I noticed after responding that you did mention apprentice mages, and not full fledged ones. Sorry for the rebuttal. :embarrass
Right. But I remember reading that you can prepare a spell on the fly right from your spellbook - or someone else's, with a DS check or a read magic spell - if you have an open spell slot. And it takes several minutes, so it's not a terribly useful combat tactic.
Preparing a spell is vastly different from actually casting the spell directly out of your spellbook.
Anyway, possible or not, it's really probably not how Raistlin cast Sleep.
Agreed.
I'm pretty sure talinthas' mention of Soul Forge being non-canon was a jest ... ;)
Cheers,
Cam
I think the easiest solution, and one which I encourage everybody to do when they see something they don't agree with in a game book, is to take a PostIt note and stick it on the page with a comment like "add sleep to Raistlin's spellbook".
Well, then there'd be nothing to argue about. What fun is that?
It frees us up to discuss more important things.
More importunate than yon Raistlins stats? What foul madness is this that thou talketh about? Oh heathen begone from here to yon ye dark Abyss from whence thee cameth from! ;)
:D
It frees us up to discuss more important things.
Yes ... like whether Raistlin crossed his T's first or last and if he waited until the end of a sentence to dot his I's. :D
Yes ... like whether Raistlin crossed his T's first or last and if he waited until the end of a sentence to dot his I's. :D
On page 254 of The Soulforge, it clearly says that...
...
What?
I think something similar for Raistlin, so we can track his progress as the novels go on.
I think something similar for Raistlin, so we can track his progress as the novels go on.
What, just Raistlin?
Cheers,
Cam