Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2004 14:10:26	I'm running eight people (yes eight people) in my KoD campaign, but the problem really only comes from two of them: the kender rouge and the human wizard. I'm looking for some advise on what to do with them and I'm hopeing you guys can help me out. The player of the kender has only read the Chronicals series of books, so she has modled herself a little after Tas, which is fine. But I think, along with a few others in the group, that she is taking the part of a kender a little too far. She will pass me a note every 5 minutes with her Hide, Sneak, and Slight of Hand rolls and ask me what she has found. I get these in such frequency that if I see her even start to write something I look at her and tell her nothing before she is finished writing. The others have caught on and try to keep a firm grip on her char at all times. I've thrown her in jail, gotten her caught and the others had to pay in stl for the items she took, and even once had a NPC threaten to cut off her hand and nothing deturs her because, and I quote, "I'm a kender!" I know it is a kenders nature to "find things laying about and hold it till the rightful owner can be found", but she'll hand me a note with every NPC that the players run into, with every room that she enters, and I do not kid when I say it is every five minutes I get a note passed to me from her. Even Tas didn't have his hands in everyones pocket every second of the adventure. She wants to take the Kender Nightstalker PrC, so I gave her my copy of Amber and Ashes a couple of weeks ago to read hopeing that Nightshade will give her another glimps of how a kender might act. I don't think she's gotten past the first chapter. Any suggestions or is this natural behavior for someone playing a kender. On to the wizard, which is almost on the excat opposite of the kender, but he's a bit more tolerable. He'll sit there with his nose in a sourcebook untill his turn comes up, but he also know's what's going on and in an important moment he will be very attentive. But I'm having a hard time to getting him to look at his char as more than a sheet of paper. I play a lot of MMO's and guys like the wizard we call power levelers. He's more interested in getting the next lvl and selecting a new spell than interacting with the world and the other players. He told me that he want's his char to be mysterious which is fine and dandy toward the other players but not me the DM. I've told him that I need a background on his char because that could play a crucial role in his Test, but I have recieved nothing from him. I think that he want's his char to follow in Raistlin's footsteps and I'm thinking to throw either the spirit of Rasitlin (something akin to what Fist did with Raist's test) or an illusion of the archmage in his test to shake him up a little. I really think he want's to become the evil all powerfull wizard of the 5th age that Raislin was after the War of the Lance (dispite my requet for no evil allignments). Any ideas on how I can get him more invested into his char? I'm hoping that since the other seven are getting into the role-playing of the game and fleshing out the personalitites of thier chars that he will grow more comfortable and do the same. Thanks for any adivse.
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2004 16:14:36	It's most likely that I'm just evil...but here's what I would probably do. The Kender - I would have her caught in trying to pickpocket someone, and have her hand literally cut off. Or her eyes gouged out. Something to get the point across that consequences do exist. I played a Kender character for a while, and played him exactly as she is...a copy of Tas. Then I read the Dragons of a New Age series by Rabe and saw Raph actually feel the consequences of being a fool. Or better yet, have her get caught and then for whatever reason another member of the party has THEIR hand cut off, because the watch (or whoever does this) looks at Kender is innocents and feels that her party member should have been watching over her. :D The Wizard - I assume he hasn't reached the "Spellcasting level of doom" yet? If he doesn't provide a background for you in time, send a wizard after him to ask him who he is and why he is practicing high level magic. This would force him to come up with a history real quick. Another thing - do you award roleplay experience in your games? If you do, try upping the amount awarded based upon realistic roleplay. For instance, if he cares so much about his character leveling, and sees others getting buttloads of xp for roleplaying, he'll start. I guarantee it. :D
#3 baron_the_curse Oct 30, 2004 18:32:55	I think you should have a talk with both players, individually, outside the game. Tell the player running the kender that you appreciate her enthusiasm, but that she should tone it down a little so as to not disrupt the flow of the game. Have her read up on kender characters again, I recommend the write-up on the kender race in Tales of the Lance if you have the box set. The wizard doesn’t sound like that much of a problem. There are different types of players as you know and some just enjoy the mechanics of the game more. There is nothing wrong with that. Just encourage him to play his character a little bit more or present his character with situations where he has to role-play. A meeting with other High Sorcery wizards is a good start. As for the alignment issue that I would talk to him about directly. If you made it clear from the beginning as a DM that your not interest in running a campaign for evil characters you need to point this out. Explain to him his character doesn’t have to be all goody-goody, but he should shy away from the Black Robes for the sake of the game. Unless you’re both prepare to allow him to run an evil character within the group. This will only work if his willing to at least be loyal to his party members and not commit serious acts of evil (say murder) in their presence.
#4 wolffenjugend_dup Oct 30, 2004 18:54:40	Heh, she's playing a kender like a kender. Modelling her character after Tass isn't wrong, it's just not that original. But really, you should be grateful you've got someone so into their character. I second the above opinion that you speak to both players privately. Let them know your side and hear theirs. They may surprise you. Maybe the wiz is bored. Who knows unless you ask. And don't cut the kender's hand off. That's so over the top. Have you ever played a character that was maimed by the DM in that manner? It's not a lot of fun and it's a surefire way to get a player to leave your group. Besides, its just going to come across as a petty DM lashing out at a player. Speak to them and let them know what the problem is. Then work with them to fix it.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2004 21:34:52	Heh, she's playing a kender like a kender. This hurts my brain. She is not playing a kender like a kender any more than you would be playing a half-elf like a half-elf if you played your character exactly the same as Tanis was played. It's just the wrong way of thinking of things. Kender, like any sentient race, are as diverse as humans are in real life. Playing your character strictly under the guidelines of Tas is not creative roleplaying in the least. And don't cut the kender's hand off. That's so over the top. Have you ever played a character that was maimed by the DM in that manner? It's not a lot of fun and it's a surefire way to get a player to leave your group. Besides, its just going to come across as a petty DM lashing out at a player. I have. It's not a big deal. It's not like the DM is trying to make you feel bad as a person, per se - it's to deal *in character* with a problem *in character*. In my opinion, if someone left over something like that, THAT would be petty. Now, if said player has a problem with seperating their character from themselves, then they need psychological help.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2004 13:30:08	I see the wizard as the real problem in your group. The kender is easily handled in or outside of gameplay. Either in gameplay demonstrate that every action has a consequence by either having something terrible happen to her or to another party member because of her characters actions. Or explain to her that even though kender do like to look at everything, they do contrain themselves if their actions will jepordize their mission or put a friend in harms way. If that doesn't work kill it. As I said easily handled. The wizard is a bit more difficult. Players like this usually require multiple approaches to "fix." Giving out Roleplaying XP is a good start if you don't do it already. If you do, hand it out immediately after the encounter so they know that getting involved in an encounter in some fashion is a good thing. Next thing you should do is not automatically hand out spells everytime he levels up. I know the PHB says you automatically get two spells, but make him work and RP for them. Force him to interact with the spellbroker or think his way a problem an reward him with a spell. Talk with him outside of the game and let him know that yes you can be mysterious and brooding if you want, but he needs to get more invovled with the rest of the party. Remind him that Raistlin wasn't a loner, Tanis would come to him for advice and he would talk with others in the group. Tell him he needs to become more active in the party or he risks being abandoned by the party should something terrible befall his character. The alignment issue I don't have a problem with, but if you said no evil and you think he's starting to take his char that direction you as the DM need to throw something at him that will force it into the open then have the party confront him on it if he goes down the wrong path. This is something the party should have a say in as well. You should ask each player if they want to have an evil character, most likely most will say no. They need to tell him that his actions aor lack thereof are putting his place int he party in jeparody and that he should mend his ways. If that doesn't work, confront him outside the game on the issue. If that doesn't work kill it. Remember it's your game and you're trying to make it fun for everyone not just for 1 or 2 players. They need to realize or be told that they're ruining things for everyone else.
#7 wolf72 Oct 31, 2004 14:14:19	you need your own set of index cards ... each one with a different item: lint cp bronze piece button pretty button rock blue pebble bird bone rusty spoon etc ... iirc the 1e DragonLance Adventures had 100 items that might be in a Kender's pockets
#8 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2004 16:10:41	Thanks for the replies guys. You've given me some things to think about. I've gotten a kender pouch list from kendercyclopdeia that I'm gonna use, that should keep her happy for a bit. The killing her off and/or maiming her I got a good laugh from, mostly because that's what other members of the group have suggested. She's one of those that you like one day and try to avoid for the rest of the week :D Well gotta go run a game. Keep the ideas rolling...
#9 mizik Oct 31, 2004 17:23:31	opps duble post my first one :D
#10 mizik Oct 31, 2004 17:23:25	tell her she does not have to play like that (but don't force her to change play style) giving some examples of afflicted kenders or some other kenders from other stories. Bu in my mind just have a stack of cards ready for those cheaks. As for the wizard put him in situations where he has to role play. Where does he get new spells? (most of the time by trading) what is his ambitions? Is his charictor power hungry? well i hope this helps