I was wondering if anyone has seen it before, and how accurate the contents are to canon. I'm guessing not, as it seems to take some significant liberties, but then again, I'm no GH scholar, so I'm not sure how much is accurate and how much is poetic license.
I recently saw a graphic novel called "Vecna: Hand of the Revenant" on eBay. Intrigued, I bid on and won it.
I was wondering if anyone has seen it before, and how accurate the contents are to canon. I'm guessing not, as it seems to take some significant liberties, but then again, I'm no GH scholar, so I'm not sure how much is accurate and how much is poetic license.
Congratulations on finding a very rare D&D comic!
"Vecna: Hand of the Revenant" is by Iron Hammer Graphics, with the art being done by Kevin McCann and the story being written by Moddi Thorsson. The official website for the graphic novel was at www.cultofvecna.net but it seems that it's gone now...not that it was anything except a single graphic with an "under construction" banner before.
I had the luck of purchasing this during its debut at GenCon 2002, when the artist and writer were there selling copies. It tells the story of young Vecna growing up (mostly his childhood with his evil, but loving, mother, her death, and his coming back to the city of his youth, Fleeth, to destroy it).
While visually spectacular, and an excellent read, the graphic novel is definately non-canon. It says that Acererak was a disciple of Vecna (something Moddi, IIRC, said was inspired by a pic in the original Tomb of Horrors seeming to be of Vecna's hand-and-eye symbol). It also has Vecna losing his hand and eye, not at the hands of Kas, but instead due to an attack of holy energy from the clergy of Fleeth. Also, it has Vecna meeting The Serpent for the first time as a young boy, which is questionable.
During my meeting with Kevin and Moddi (at which I was smart enough to have them autograph my copy), they said this was actually meant to be the first of six such graphic novels about Vecna (hence the cliffhanger at the end of this one), but it seems the deal has long since fallen through, since you can barely find mention of this trade paperback unless you are deliberately looking for it.
It's still an awesome collectible to have, though.
It also has Vecna losing his hand and eye, not at the hands of Kas, but instead due to an attack of holy energy from the clergy of Fleeth.
Note that canon sources never stated that Vecna lost his eye and hand because of Kas. The only thing we know for sure is that Vecna and his infamous henchman had a big fight and that, afterwards, the only things left were Vecna's eye & hand, and Kas' sword.
I actually found the explanation offered in the novel refreshing and much more credible.
Since Vecna has been trying to get his hand (no pun intended) on his missing parts in several modules (given, apparently, they boost his power), it isn't that illogical to think he had them when he fought Kas.
So, there are no sequels planned, eh?
. Also, it has Vecna meeting The Serpent for the first time as a young boy, which is questionable.
I'm a bit out of touch with all Greyhawk Canon. Who or what is the Serpent?
Cheers.
S.H
A rather dumb idea intoduced in the Vecna modules, that is ussualy read either as
A: a representation of Vecna's insanity (if it must be used this one gets my approval)
or
B: the essence of magic itself
although a few people connect it with asmodeus as described in Prama's guide to hell book (Which has gotta be one of the stinkiest 2e products to ever come out).
I'm a bit out of touch with all Greyhawk Canon. Who or what is the Serpent?
Cheers.
S.H
A kind of primitive uber-deity of magic that - supposedly - favored Vecna (and, possibly, the Ur-Flanna)
Note that canon sources never stated that Vecna lost his eye and hand because of Kas. The only thing we know for sure is that Vecna and his infamous henchman had a big fight and that, afterwards, the only things left were Vecna's eye & hand, and Kas' sword.
It seems like splitting hairs. Vecna (who had all his parts prior to fighting Kas) was physically destroyed at the end of the battle, leaving only his left eye and hand. Whether that was due to an attack by Kas, or some other happenstance during the battle seems largely immaterial, IMHO.
I'm a bit out of touch with all Greyhawk Canon. Who or what is the Serpent?
Ironically, The Serpent was first mentioned in Vecna Reborn (itself a Ravenloft product) and then again in Die Vecna Die!, which was published under the AD&D banner, but took place on Oerth, Ravenloft, and Sigil (this adventure was meant to be the transition adventure, the in-game explanation, for why 2E became 3E in the establishd multiverse. The other "apocalypse adventure", The Apocalypse Stone, was meant for homebrew worlds).
The Serpent was said in Vecna Reborn to be the essence of magic itself. However, though this was not in boxed text, it's unclear in that product whether it really is a real being, or something in Vecna's mind.
Die Vecna Die was more forthcoming. That said that The Serpent was a member of a group called the Ancient Brethren, truly ancient beings with power far beyond gods, who were known to speak the Language Primeval (aka Aleph, dealt with more in College of Wizardry). The only other known member of the group is the Lady of Pain, who herself refers to the Serpent (albeit through the rebus-speak of her dabus), which seems to confirm that it is indeed a real being and not a figment of Vecna's mind.
The Serpent seems to have taken Vecna as a disciple. It was the Serpent who gave Vecna the spell of Creation Once Spoken, one of the Words (magic so powerful only gods may use them; another example is the Last Word from Dead Gods), which Vecna used in his feint to dupe the Dark Powers of Ravenloft. It was also the Serpent who told Vecna how to utilize the planar fabric of Ravenloft to bypass some and smash through other wards keeping gods out of Sigil...and once in, Vecna would have been able to remake all of the multiverse in his own image, with himself as the sole ruling Overpower.
I have a copy of this. It's well done and interesting. So, there are no sequels planned, eh?
I did a partial interview with the author, Modi Thorsson, for the Oerth Journal, but we never completed the interview because Modi was in and out of contact for awhile, during which time the planned sequels fell through.
I'll ping him to see if anything's changed---he's a big GH fan, and would love to be able to continue the storyline, I know!
It seems like splitting hairs. Vecna (who had all his parts prior to fighting Kas) was physically destroyed at the end of the battle, leaving only his left eye and hand. Whether that was due to an attack by Kas, or some other happenstance during the battle seems largely immaterial, IMHO.
I beg to disagree. The two main sources about Vecna's history, 2E Book of Artifacts and Vecna Lives!, never state the archlich's body was intact prior to the battle. The only thing we know for sure is that the eye and hand were all that was left after the battle with Kas.
If the comics is indeed true (to a point, not at 100%), then this could explain a lot. Indeed, if both eye and hand had already become potent magic items prior to the battle then it explains why they survived it when Vecna's body did not.
The Serpent:
A rather dumb idea intoduced in the Vecna modules, that is ussualy read either as
A: a representation of Vecna's insanity (if it must be used this one gets my approval)
or
B: the essence of magic itself
although a few people connect it with asmodeus as described in Prama's guide to hell book (Which has gotta be one of the stinkiest 2e products to ever come out).
I accually liked connecting it to Asmodeus, as the guide to hell (the little I did read didn't seem too bad), indicated that Asmodeus is more than just the top devil. He, along with the Lady of Pain and the Couatl (I think), are beings that underpin/existed before the multiverse. He's really trapped, imobile, at the bottom of Hell, and is represented/really like a serpent.
The key part that I thought was cool - He gains power (to get to his goal of distroying the multiverse and making something he likes better) from souls that have "lost faith", whose basic belief system was ripped from them such that they don't have any outer plane/god to go to. This, to me, ties in nicely with any scheme Asmodeus wants to do that cause people to loose their faith. This could be the standard temptation/fall from grace senarios, to encouraging pointless wars and death, to setting up beings like Vecna with power to get a cult and a following, then leaving out crucial information or other support so the being's or cult's goal fail. Such cultists may lose faith enough to fall to Asmodeus.
I like this because it fits nicely with why all of the plans of Vecna fail (thanks to the players in my group), and why Asmodeus subtly keeps the Blood War going (something that no-one has given a good reason for, in my opinion). The Serpent references fit nicely, and I've subtly hinted in it's existance.
That's how I'm using it in my campaign.
pvandyck
Congratulations on finding a very rare D&D comic!
During my meeting with Kevin and Moddi (at which I was smart enough to have them autograph my copy), they said this was actually meant to be the first of six such graphic novels about Vecna (hence the cliffhanger at the end of this one), but it seems the deal has long since fallen through, since you can barely find mention of this trade paperback unless you are deliberately looking for it.
It's still an awesome collectible to have, though.
Perhaps hard to find but, and certainly a nice collectible but rare?
You can still order it in some stores for $ 9:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/wizarduniverse/star16535.html
http://www.marsimport.com/display_comic.php?ID=5434
And on ebay they go for even less. A real shame if you ask me.
Does anyone know hos large the print run was, how well they sold and why the sequels where cancelled?
I did a partial interview with the author, Modi Thorsson, for the Oerth Journal, but we never completed the interview because Modi was in and out of contact for awhile, during which time the planned sequels fell through.
I'll ping him to see if anything's changed---he's a big GH fan, and would love to be able to continue the storyline, I know!
Yes do that and let us know. It would be very interesting to hear why they were cancelled and if perhaps there`s possibility of all of them still being published sometime.
I beg to disagree. The two main sources about Vecna's history, 2E Book of Artifacts and Vecna Lives!, never state the archlich's body was intact prior to the battle.
This is a logical fallacy (specifically, it's argumentum ad ignorantiam). Just because the books don't explicitly state that his body was intact prior to the battle is in no way any indicator that it therefore must not have been.
There are no canon references to Vecna's left eye and hand being severed from his body prior to the battle with Kas, so there is no evidence to assume that they were.
This is a logical fallacy (specifically, it's argumentum ad ignorantiam). Just because the books don't explicitly state that his body was intact prior to the battle is in no way any indicator that it therefore must not have been.
There are no canon references to Vecna's left eye and hand being severed from his body prior to the battle with Kas, so there is no evidence to assume that they were.
I could return the compliment since there is no explicit statement that his body was intact either.
My point wasn't to argue that it was not intact but that it is a distinct possibility since you stated that he had all his body parts intact prior to the battle in a tone that suggested you had proof of it.
Adhuc sub judice lis est, isn't it? ;)
I could return the compliment since there is no explicit statement that his body was intact either.
My point wasn't to argue that it was not intact but that it is a distinct possibility since you stated that he had all his body parts intact prior to the battle in a tone that suggested you had proof of it.
Fair enough, but in the absence of evidence either way, you logically go with the default answer. Since the body is naturally all attached unless told otherwise, there default answer would be that his body wasn't sundered. There is no explicit evidence either way, so it's the only basic assumption that can be made.
I mean, imagine if he had lost both body parts, as well as all the ones that would go on to become relics, prior to fighting Kas...there's be very little left of him to fight with!
Perhaps hard to find but, and certainly a nice collectible but rare?
True. I thought of that after posting the above, but it didn't seem like it was necessary to change it. Also, it seemed rare to me, since I had a friend who has a huge D&D collection, and he's so far been unable to acquire one.
However, there remains one possibility noone ever commented -it has nothing to do with the WoG canon, it's just my personal theory:
As far as I know, necromancy is a magic of self - destruction and causes great pain to the wizard who uses it.
Examples: The witch of Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves
Vagnard of Record of Lodoss War
So, if you have to *basically* hurt yourself to perform spells, couldn't it be that he cut his hand and stabbed his eye for to acquire greater power?
And after all, why does he want to get them back?
Personal interest: He seeks in-mortality and wants to have his triumph in a undamaged body. He can warp up his putrification by spells.
Cover his lost arm and eye, he possibly can not.
Heh heh. You can accept the idea of a corpse standing up, walking around, raising the dead, throwing eldritch balls of flame around and robbing the very gods themselves of their divine power, yet the fact that he still has eyeballs is the one thing you could never wrap your brain around...? :D
"One other thing that sems to be unmentioned is, how does a lich have eyeballs anyway? That's the one thing that's never made sense to me."
Heh heh. You can accept the idea of a corpse standing up, walking around, raising the dead, throwing eldritch balls of flame around and robbing the very gods themselves of their divine power, yet the fact that he still has eyeballs is the one thing you could never wrap your brain around...? :D
Well, yeah...isn't it that way for everybody?
;)
I mean, imagine if he had lost both body parts, as well as all the ones that would go on to become relics, prior to fighting Kas...there's be very little left of him to fight with!
Actually the existance of the spell Depth Perception in Vecna's Ineffable Variorum spellbook (from Dragon #225) seems to point to the fact that he actually lost the eye when still a mortal (or that liches need eyeballs for depth perception!)and perhaps even before the fight with Kas.
Here`s the article online:
http://www.dracheninsel.de/insel/add/greyhawk/grimoires.htm
Actually the existance of the spell Depth Perception in Vecna's Ineffable Variorum spellbook (from Dragon #225) seems to point to the fact that he actually lost the eye when still a mortal (or that liches need eyeballs for depth perception!)and perhaps even before the fight with Kas.
Actually, it suggests just the opposite, since the entirety of the relevant paragraph is operating under what "history suggests", which is that Vecna lost his eye in the battle with Kas.
(It should be noted that this spell's inclusion in the Variorum is a bit of a mystery. At first glance, one can see the logic in its inclusion - after all, history suggests that Vecna lost an eye in his battle with Kas, and thus, the spell would be most useful to the lich. Still, history also states that Vecna perished in that battle, which would preclude his creation of the spell. This point has caused much debate among scholars, and some have questioned whether or not the Variorum is even Vecna's work. Other sages believe the spell was developed by a later owner of the tome, an owner whose magical script was identical to Vecna's. And still other educated individuals suggest that Vecna looked into the future and saw the loss of his eye - thus inspiring him to create the spell - but did not see his own death in the process.)
Actually, it does neither. In fact, the entire paragraph you quoted goes to great lengths to make it clear that exactly when Vecna lost his eye and/or hand is still very much shrouded in mystery.
If you accept that Die, Vecna Die is canon, and the final authority of the true state of his artifacts, the "Eye of Vecna" was actually a gem stone and not his occular organ.
That reference isn't literal; it's just a colorful way that it gets referred to. The Eye of Vecna is his actual eye.
That reference isn't literal; it's just a colorful way that it gets referred to. The Eye of Vecna is his actual eye.
No, I have the text, it states that it was a gem stone. It is very literal.
If you accept that Die, Vecna Die is canon, and the final authority of the true state of his artifacts, the "Eye of Vecna" was actually a gem stone and not his occular organ.
In that case at least, I think it's better to ignore DVD as canon. The earlier sources on the Eye are pretty clear that it was the actual Eye of Vecna, not some gem.
In that case at least, I think it's better to ignore DVD as canon. The earlier sources on the Eye are pretty clear that it was the actual Eye of Vecna, not some gem.
I would second that motion.
GVD
In that case at least, I think it's better to ignore DVD as canon. The earlier sources on the Eye are pretty clear that it was the actual Eye of Vecna, not some gem.
The 1st Edition DMG "Artifacts" section states
"The Eye of Vecna" is said to glow in the same manner as that of a feral creature. It appears to be an agate until it is placed in an empty eye socket of a living character. Once pressed in, it instantly and irrevocably grafts itself to the head, and it cannot be removed or harmed without slaying the character."
I guess thats where DVD gets its assertion that the Eye is a gem....
The 1st Edition DMG "Artifacts" section states
"The Eye of Vecna" is said to glow in the same manner as that of a feral creature. It appears to be an agate until it is placed in an empty eye socket of a living character. Once pressed in, it instantly and irrevocably grafts itself to the head, and it cannot be removed or harmed without slaying the character."
I guess thats where DVD gets its assertion that the Eye is a gem....
It also dirrectly conficts other sources (On purpose) the description of the Sword of Kas. It gets by on this by stating that there have been many fake swords of Kas. (And to be honest, not a bad idea.)
But with DVD, everything is a history retcon in the end. I will always consider it canon, because it brings to a close 2e and begins 3e (or 3.5e). It was a catastophic event that maked a milestone for my PCs, one that has and will beget many other issues that keep my player coming back for more.
One way to look at it.. Because the universal reset button has been hit because of this even and the gem is now an eye again, and history will now always reflect that it's an eye, so be it. There are many people out there with groups that will never pick up that adventure and never even consider it. So for them it will never be canon. But for me, it will always be canon, albeit murky by virtue of it's ending.
To each your own, and enjoy as you will.
We adapt the fact that Vecna did indeed lose his eye and hand in the the Ritual of Light's blast at Fleeth (or some other city in the ancient Flanaess). Vecna turned to his right and raised his left hand to shield himself from the divine radiance. The Holy blast rips his left side to shreds - his left hand is blown off his wrist, and his left eye is torn from its socket. His undead flesh is burned, but his arcane robes protect him from utter destruction.
After Fleeth/Other City is eventually destroyed and brought to ruin, Vecna's Hand and Eye are found. They are recovered and presented to the Whispered One, but they are no longer just a hand and an eye. Now they are powerfully imbued magical items resulting from the combined, simultaneous effects of the Ritual of Light, Darknight and Vecna's own innate magical energies.
Vecna, who is certainly a powerful necromancer, reattaches his formerly missing body parts. He grows more powerful upon the reconnection. And, since these parts of Vecna were exposed (that is, not under the protection of his robes) to the forces active at Fleeth, they survive the battle with Kas.
While Kas destroys Vecna's body during or after his battle with The Whispered One, he cannot destroy the hideous Hand and Eye. So he hides them, buries them, throws them into a chasm - just tries to get rid of them. He cannot utterly destroy them - and they haunt him.
Thus we have the literal Hand and Eye of Vecna, which survive to this day.
The above is just an idea. Just trying to be creative and explain one of Greyhawk's great mysteries. What do you think? Am I talking crazy here?
I'd only argue that Kas would have tried to find a way to use the artifacts power.
I'd consider it more likely that the artifacts were stolen of him...
Your theory sounds nice, Greyson.
I'd only argue that Kas would have tried to find a way to use the artifacts power. I'd consider it more likely that the artifacts were stolen off of him...
I can definitely agree with that. Does the legend, as it has been passed down, indicate that Kas and Vecna slew each other at the conclusion of their epic battle? Is there any indication that one survived, for even the briefest time, after the other had expired? Or shall we throw out the idea that Kas possessed the Hand and Eye of Vecna, given that he might have just been slain - leaving said artifacts to spectators or other persons who discovered the dead villains.
What do you fellas think?
Many tales are told of the arch-lich Vecna.
It is said that Vecna was one of the Planes' mightiest sorcerers, able to draw life from dust and send it back again, extinguish lives with a glance, and make the earth shudder beneath his touch. He was said to be so powerful that when the end of his life drew near, death refused to take him into its kingdom.
And so Vecna died, yet lived on.
Abandoned by death, Vecna became the master of a vast kingdom on a prime world called Oerth. Neither kind nor just, Lord Vecna's rule was one of great horror and suffering, and it is said his reach was so great that even the Powers of Oerth feared to cross him for fearing of drawing his eye.
Yet, while Vecna's gaze traveled ever outward in search of new conquests, he failed to see his own end when it came for him... in the form of his lieutenant, Kas.
As was fitting for Vecna's left hand servant, the arch-lich had fashioned a terrible weapon for his lieutenant as a symbol of his authority. Vecna made this weapon with such skill it is said that part of the sorcerer entered the blade, and it was this sliver of Vecna that gave the blade its life and
its treacherous nature. Where once there was lifeless steel, there became thought, intent, and, perhaps most horrible of all, a voice.
The sword whispered treacheries to the ambitious Kas, night upon night, month upon month, year upon year, until one night, the remains of Kas' discipline was seduced by the rippling edge of the blade. Convinced by his blade that he was Vecna's superior, Kas confronted his dread master upon his Dessicated Throne, and the two of them fought a terrible battle.
During the battle, Kas was killed, but before he fell, his blade had dismembered his former master, scattering his remains so that no one may draw them together again. And so it has come to pass that pieces of Vecna have made their way across the Planes... one of these is the Eye of Vecna. It carries with it a bloody, violent history, so much so that many scholars refuse to speak of its treacheries, for fear the eye will come to them, seeking to add another victim to its bloody chronology.
[...]
The Eye's powers are said to shift with each new owner, but one thing is certain: no good ever comes from whoever has the misfortune to possess it. It is destined to betray its wearer at a critical moment, failing him when he needs its power the most.
from http://www.gamejag.com/planescape/multiverse/stuff/eyes.htm
Here's some great short fiction on the betrayal itself:
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=29
For an excellent short rundown of Vecna's ancient history check out Erik Mona's treatise Ancient History: Vecna's Realm on canonfire. Another great canonfire article delineates the path of The Hand and Eye of Vecna throughout Oerthian History.
There's a Greyhawk Grimoires article in Dragon #225 which includes details on one of Vecna's spellbooks: Vecna's Ineffable Variorum. It's available online here. It also contains some tidbits of history and two spellbooks of other Greyhawk luminaries: Iggwilv and Acerak
While I don't own Vecna Reborn the Domains of Dread HC has some info on the twin domains of Cavitius and Tovag, which together form the cluster called the Burning Peaks.
The Background of Kas the Destroyer as he's called while Darklord of Tovag [1] notes that:
In truth however Kas survived the melee; he was hurled through a dimensional gate and imprisoned in Vecna's Citadel Cavitius on the Quasielemental Plane of Ash.[2] For centuries, the defeated Kas languished in therein great despair. During his confinement the might kas changed. As the negative Energies of the Citadel took their toll on his body he gradually became a vampire. after centuries of imprisonment, Kas found himself suddenly freed when the lich was defeated in his plan to seize control of Oerth [this would be the events in Vecna Lives!]. Kas joy at being released from his eternal confinement was quickly snuffed out, however upon finding himself held fast by a shapeless border of Mists.
So Kas is free to wander out of Vecna's Citadel only to be bound in the neighbouring domain, when Vecna's demigod avatar is sucked into Ravenloft.
On how Vecna became a demigod after his defeat at the hands of Kas, and how he got trapped in Ravenloft and his later bid for power theBlackJaw has it almost right on this thread: (scroll down to the 7th post)
http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm3.showMessage?topicID=425.topic
(ignore DeathKnight references, Kas is a vampire. Also Vecna was a lich long time before the betrayal.)
Footnotes:
[1] Tovag is domain in the Realm of Dread. Incidently Tovag Baragu is the name of the ancient artifact-monument (think Stonehenge, planar/temporal nexus/gate) on Oerth featuring in Vecna Lives and Die Vecna Die.
[2] The Plane of Ash, resultant from the meeting of Fire and Negative Energy, has fewer inhabitants than Dust and is bad as Fire. In fact a traveler can't breath here and the cinders drain a body's warmth at every turn. This place is an endless sea of cinder and ash. The Doomguard maintain the Crumbling Citadel. A powerful lich Vecna inhabits a huge stronghold here and it's said that once-living prisoners of Vecna are transformed into horrible undead monsters because the proximity of the fortress to the Negative Energy Plane.
EDIT: For the links above to work you`ll have to hit "copy link adress" and then manually remove that damn wotc part or else they won`t open on the specific articles but on the canonfire main page...
I can definitely agree with that. Does the legend, as it has been passed down, indicate that Kas and Vecna slew each other at the conclusion of their epic battle? Is there any indication that one survived, for even the briefest time, after the other had expired? Or shall we throw out the idea that Kas possessed the Hand and Eye of Vecna, given that he might have just been slain - leaving said artifacts to spectators or other persons who discovered the dead villains.
What do you fellas think?
With the entry from Domains of Dread it is official that Kas survived but was sent through a planar rift. IMO when Vecna was destroyed by (the Sword of) Kas the three artifacts could have been sent hurtling across the planes(sort of like the Rod of Seven Parts). Though the great timeline that I linked to above traces them quite neatly across the Flanaess..
I personallly don't follow the *official* line in my camaign, but had Kas recover Vecna's corpse and then have him slain by the vengeful old elves...
*Kul'gobsula's coming - count the days!*
I've also done a similar introduction to Rary, the Circle of Eight. Check them out here if you`re interested:
http://community.dicefreaks.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=search
(search for Greyhawk AND 101)
Welcome to sumit other stuff of that quality!This timeline from the Oerth Journal #1 gives a lot of info on Vecna`s early career and campaigns against the ancient elven kingdoms of oerth: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~monax002/Council/OJ1/history.html
(also available here in a slightly more readable format:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~goran/History.htm)
This thread on realmsofevil has some very interesting ideas about vecna`s phylactery: http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewforum.php?f=21&sid=273411bc2ef763a818f701eea627310d
--------------------------------------------------------
BTW, couldn't it be that Vecna, before becoming a lich made his body mechanical in part, in his desperate attempt to acquire inmortality? *Would explain why the hand and the eye were artifacts...*
Vecna - a robot?
The timeline seems contradictory to some info from the graphic novel, where Vecna sieges the human city of Fleeth and learned magic at the hands of his mother in that city and not from the elves. But he`s still very young at the end of the graphic novel so one could assume he later learns more magic from the grey olves. Still there`s no mention of elves anywhere in the graphic novel which would be odd if one followed vecna`s heavy involvement with them in the OJ timeline.
That's because the OJ timeline is even "less" canon than the Vecna comic.
The story about the elves was Steve Wilson's own homebrew that he tossed into the timeline.
Halber
Instead I suggest thinking of sources as more or less influential on subsequent authors and to think of "official" and fan-creations as forming schools or families of influence. In other words, certain Alternate Oerths are more or less similar depending on how their creation was influenced by different sources.
As I understand them, both Steve Wilson and the team that created the comic book are both long-time fans of Greyhawk, who have had different opportunities to imagine and share their Alternate Oerths. Steve was a member of the early online GH community, contributed substantially to the Council of Greyhawk and the Oerth Journal, and eventually influenced the "Team Greyhawk" that produced GH'98 products. Similarly, Modi (and perhaps some of his colleagues) gained the opportunity to produce a licensed comic book that represents a seminal character of Greyhawk.
Are the products of one or the other more or less validly called "canon"? Maybe for some people, but let's leave that behind and instead share what aspects we appreciate and have incorporated into our campaigns -- the Alternate Oerths that we create collaboratively with our friends.
PEACE !!!
... I suggest thinking of sources as more or less influential on subsequent authors and to think of "official" and fan-creations as forming schools or families of influence. In other words, certain Alternate Oerths are more or less similar depending on how their creation was influenced by different sources.
Very good point!
I would distinguish between *canon* and *lore*, so to speak.
As canon, since the beginning of 3rd ed is stonecold, we rely more and more on fan supplements.
But what would that *canon of influence* look like?
Which are the most influential books/articles concerning WoG, official or not?
*For example, I think every Greyhawker out there knows the old Oerth map (and the corresponding article)by TSR from 1996.*
1. H:HotR states that Dark Night occurs once every 12 years. It actually happens on a yearly basis. Of course, perhaps the universe wasn't as in sync then.
2. Fleeth is a bustling, pre-Migrations city. How in the 9 Hells did an Oeridian god become dominant before the Oeridians even enter the Flanaess?
2. I always thought Rao would've worked better.
2. Fleeth is a bustling, pre-Migrations city. How in the 9 Hells did an Oeridian god become dominant before the Oeridians even enter the Flanaess?
Certainly Pholtus predates the Oeridians.
Certainly Pholtus predates the Oeridians.
Quite likely, yes, but when a deity is classified as being from a particular culture, it is assumed that that culture is the one which introduced the deity to the world at large.
1. It would have to be some 12-year conjunction of the stars and planets that occurs on Dark Night.
Good solution--however, IIRC, the point of the Mazel's explanation to young Vecna was that Pholtus would be weak on Darknight because neither moon was visible. I suppose a conjunction where Oerth shadowed both moons and the rest of the geosystem could've been what Mazel meant, meaning the wandering stars were also not visible--since Pholtus is a god of light, this would make some sense, assuming that individual planets outside of Liga & Oerth are not identified with individual gods.
2. I always thought Rao would've worked better.
True. It could be that the only evidence of Fleeth religion Uhas of Neheli (the story's narrator) had was that they worshipped an unnamed moon god, whom Uhas identified as Pholtus, knowing nothing of the lunar creation story of the Vollar. This, however, somewhat contradicts the "shadowed conjunction" theory above, but I suppose one can say that the light of the stars was also fired by Rao's soul.
Hopefully, at some point, events in VHotR will be canonized with proper explanations made for the discrepancies.