Magic on the planes on 3e - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Magic on the planes on 3e

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 07, 2004 4:12:43 Hello

I'll be starting a 3e Planescape campaign in a few weeks and I need advice regarding rules for magic on the planes. Maybe some bloods like yourselves might be able to help a clueless DM. How do you treat magic on the planes? I mean, in your games, do clerics lose one level (when it comes to spells) for each plane between the plane he's on and his power's? Do weapons and armor lose a plus for each plane between the planes it's on and the plane it's been forged? Do you follow the chart of spell alterations according to the plane a pc casts it on? (This one is tough because magic has changed a lot from 2e to 3e) These are just a few questions that come to mind. So, can anyone help me out?

Ankhalab

(Sorry any grammar mistakes, my english is kinda... "rusted")

edit: some grammar errors fixed
#2
weenie
Nov 07, 2004 10:48:16
How do you treat magic on the planes?

Well, going back to 2E rules isn't really practical, but I felt that some adjustments were due, especially for divine magic. So, I choose to (as a house rule) apply the Cha-check penalty of the Outer Planes also to the effective divine caster levels. Priests use power keys to reduce or negate that penalty, and mages use spell keys to help with the Spellcraft check required for impeded magic on some planes. The summary, outer planes only:

OUTER PLANES:
Ysgard: -2 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters.
Limbo: -4 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters.
Pandem: -2 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters.
Abyss: -2 effective caster level for Lawful or Good divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Lawful and Good)
Carceri: -2 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters.
Hades: -4 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters.
Gehenna: -2 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters.
Baator: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic or Good divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Chaotic and Good)
Acheron: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters.
Mechanus: -4 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters.
Arcadia: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters.
Mount Celestia: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic or Evil divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Chaotic and Evil)
Bytopia: -2 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters.
Elysium: -4 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters.
Beastlands: -2 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters.
Arborea: -2 effective caster level for Lawful or Evil divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Lawful and Evil)

This worked perfectly IMC. Well, almost perfectly.
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 07, 2004 11:38:12 Look here on my site, where I made up some rules for my own party.
The penalties to INT, WIS & CHA are to the roll made with a skill check only, so not actually to INT, WIS or CHA.

The change in Caster Level only affects Divine spellcasting, as Arcane spellcasters have enough trouble on the planes as it is.

http://members.home.nl/dannykostons/alignment_and_planar_effects.htm
#4
ripvanwormer
Nov 07, 2004 15:39:37
How do you treat magic on the planes? I mean, in your games, do clerics lose one level (when it comes to spells) for each plane between the plane he's on and his power's?

No. I recommend that divine spells, arcane spells, and psionics be treated the same as far as spell alterations go; it's the effect that is altered, not the cause, and the exact kind of energy doesn't matter. Simpler that way, too.

I really like the 2e spell alterations and spell keys, but they're a pain to mess with.
#5
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Nov 08, 2004 1:04:41
I really like the 2e spell alterations and spell keys, but they're a pain to mess with.

*nod* I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love the flavor they had, but it was a pain to actually implement. The only times I've used them in a game (all 3e) was during a oneshot game on Carceri that I ran when I wanted to go really hardcore on the flavor of the plane. Complex but fun, but it'd be a nightmare in a full campaign to keep the rules in place.

One place where I'll agree with the 3e mechanics changes there, it did simplify things.
#6
kilamar
Nov 08, 2004 2:03:23 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=170905

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299079&highlight=Magic+in+the+Planes
#7
weenie
Nov 08, 2004 12:09:26
*nod* I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love the flavor they had, but it was a pain to actually implement.

Spell keys and power keys are part of the setting (almost) as much as portal keys are. Does the Queen of Croshtrade actually agree with letting a substantial part of her profits slip away just because it's simpler that way?

Seriously, I'm all in favor of simplifying the cumbersome 2E rules, but let's not cut out the whole right-tool-for-the-right-plane aspect. Various small items that help the spellcasters work their mojo while on certain planes... that means they have to worry about more than their spellbooks/holy symbols, gear-wise. having them look for the right spell/power key each time they come back to the Cage is the opposite of that "autorefill spell component pouch" action.
#8
zombiegleemax
Nov 08, 2004 15:52:38 Since I use a completely different spell system than 3E (Talislanta 4th edition, actually), I have different modifiers, but in general I still use the spell keys. Yes, it's a pain to keep track of, but my players have to do a lot of the remembering too. I generally have -2 to +2 modifiers for certain types of spells that reflect the nature of the plane. For example, -2 to any destructive spells on Elysium. +1 to creation spells on Bytopia. Some spells just don't work at all, like healing in the Negative Energy Plane. That kind of thing.

Clerics do not lose a level away from their deity. I found that it quickly crippled any clerics, and boy were they resentful.

Weapons do not lose a plus away from their home plane, but some of their powers are modified as per above. A flame sword on the Para-Elemental Plane of Ice would be at -2 in my game. A sword of sharpness might be unaffected, or might get a +1 if it's in a special part of the plane (The Ice-Razor Caverns).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 07, 2004 4:12:43	Hello I'll be starting a 3e Planescape campaign in a few weeks and I need advice regarding rules for magic on the planes. Maybe some bloods like yourselves might be able to help a clueless DM. How do you treat magic on the planes? I mean, in your games, do clerics lose one level (when it comes to spells) for each plane between the plane he's on and his power's? Do weapons and armor lose a plus for each plane between the planes it's on and the plane it's been forged? Do you follow the chart of spell alterations according to the plane a pc casts it on? (This one is tough because magic has changed a lot from 2e to 3e) These are just a few questions that come to mind. So, can anyone help me out? Ankhalab (Sorry any grammar mistakes, my english is kinda... "rusted") edit: some grammar errors fixed
#2 weenie Nov 07, 2004 10:48:16	How do you treat magic on the planes? Well, going back to 2E rules isn't really practical, but I felt that some adjustments were due, especially for divine magic. So, I choose to (as a house rule) apply the Cha-check penalty of the Outer Planes also to the effective divine caster levels. Priests use power keys to reduce or negate that penalty, and mages use spell keys to help with the Spellcraft check required for impeded magic on some planes. The summary, outer planes only: OUTER PLANES: Ysgard: -2 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters. Limbo: -4 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters. Pandem: -2 effective caster level for Lawful divine spellcasters. Abyss: -2 effective caster level for Lawful or Good divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Lawful and Good) Carceri: -2 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters. Hades: -4 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters. Gehenna: -2 effective caster level for Good divine spellcasters. Baator: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic or Good divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Chaotic and Good) Acheron: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters. Mechanus: -4 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters. Arcadia: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic divine spellcasters. Mount Celestia: -2 effective caster level for Chaotic or Evil divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Chaotic and Evil) Bytopia: -2 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters. Elysium: -4 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters. Beastlands: -2 effective caster level for Evil divine spellcasters. Arborea: -2 effective caster level for Lawful or Evil divine spellcasters (-4 if they are both Lawful and Evil) This worked perfectly IMC. Well, almost perfectly.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 07, 2004 11:38:12	Look here on my site, where I made up some rules for my own party. The penalties to INT, WIS & CHA are to the roll made with a skill check only, so not actually to INT, WIS or CHA. The change in Caster Level only affects Divine spellcasting, as Arcane spellcasters have enough trouble on the planes as it is. http://members.home.nl/dannykostons/alignment_and_planar_effects.htm
#4 ripvanwormer Nov 07, 2004 15:39:37	How do you treat magic on the planes? I mean, in your games, do clerics lose one level (when it comes to spells) for each plane between the plane he's on and his power's? No. I recommend that divine spells, arcane spells, and psionics be treated the same as far as spell alterations go; it's the effect that is altered, not the cause, and the exact kind of energy doesn't matter. Simpler that way, too. I really like the 2e spell alterations and spell keys, but they're a pain to mess with.
#5 Shemeska_the_Marauder Nov 08, 2004 1:04:41	I really like the 2e spell alterations and spell keys, but they're a pain to mess with. nod I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love the flavor they had, but it was a pain to actually implement. The only times I've used them in a game (all 3e) was during a oneshot game on Carceri that I ran when I wanted to go really hardcore on the flavor of the plane. Complex but fun, but it'd be a nightmare in a full campaign to keep the rules in place. One place where I'll agree with the 3e mechanics changes there, it did simplify things.
#6 kilamar Nov 08, 2004 2:03:23	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=170905 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299079&highlight=Magic+in+the+Planes
#7 weenie Nov 08, 2004 12:09:26	nod I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love the flavor they had, but it was a pain to actually implement. Spell keys and power keys are part of the setting (almost) as much as portal keys are. Does the Queen of Croshtrade actually agree with letting a substantial part of her profits slip away just because it's simpler that way? Seriously, I'm all in favor of simplifying the cumbersome 2E rules, but let's not cut out the whole right-tool-for-the-right-plane aspect. Various small items that help the spellcasters work their mojo while on certain planes... that means they have to worry about more than their spellbooks/holy symbols, gear-wise. having them look for the right spell/power key each time they come back to the Cage is the opposite of that "autorefill spell component pouch" action.
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2004 15:52:38	Since I use a completely different spell system than 3E (Talislanta 4th edition, actually), I have different modifiers, but in general I still use the spell keys. Yes, it's a pain to keep track of, but my players have to do a lot of the remembering too. I generally have -2 to +2 modifiers for certain types of spells that reflect the nature of the plane. For example, -2 to any destructive spells on Elysium. +1 to creation spells on Bytopia. Some spells just don't work at all, like healing in the Negative Energy Plane. That kind of thing. Clerics do not lose a level away from their deity. I found that it quickly crippled any clerics, and boy were they resentful. Weapons do not lose a plus away from their home plane, but some of their powers are modified as per above. A flame sword on the Para-Elemental Plane of Ice would be at -2 in my game. A sword of sharpness might be unaffected, or might get a +1 if it's in a special part of the plane (The Ice-Razor Caverns).