Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 16, 2004 22:26:33	I was thinking the other day about the Dragonorbs. I know we have had this discussion before, but can think of newer way's to look at it. We know for a fact that there were 5 DragonOrbs. It is speculated that a DragonOrb was kept in each of the TOwers of High Sorcery. We know for a fact that the DragonOrb of Istar was stolen by Lorac as many as 25 years before the Cataclysm (based on the fact that the Orb sensed the Cataclysm coming and Lorac would have been there to take his test). We know there was a Dragon Orb in IceReach Castle. Where it originated from, as far as a tower goes, we don't know. BUt we know Tasslehoff destroyed it. We know that there was a Dragon Orb in the High Clerists Tower. Probably the one of the Tower of Palanthus, moved there during the 3rd DragonWar, in case Vingaard Keep ever fell. And chances are, as the years passed and the dragons were gone, that perhaps it was "forgotten" to some extent. I have thought of Three way's that the remaining two dragonorbs may well be in existence. 1) THe DragonOrb of Istar warned Lorac that the end was coming. If Lorac was in Istar for his test, that would have to at a minimum 25-30 years before teh Cataclysm if Lorac did indeed steal this from the Tower of High Sorcery in Istar. Although it is possible that Lorac, in his position as Speaker of the Star's, may well have been on a state visit to Istar, and could have taken the Orb from some treasure trove of the KingPriest *(can someone confirm this) One possiblity is that when the "Truce" was reached to allow the Tower of Istar to be evacuated, that the opportunity for Lorac to steal it may have happened. Anyway, is it not possible, that if a DragonOrb could sense the Cataclysm coming, that it could sense the Lost Battles coming as well? And thus, flat out warn the masters of the Tower to take them to safety. Back then, Wizards seemed to be very powerfull and it may well have been a reasonable precaution to move it. It is possible a wizard would do so if he had the safegaurds in place to move it or had the "means" to do so (even though Lorac was not on that level as a Wizard, he was the Speaker fo the Stars and ruled Silvanesti, which the DragonOrb may have deemed "acceptable"). Once a DragonOrb sensed the end coming, I can imagine it would have called out to anyone it could to save it. For this to work, all it really took was for a MagicUser, no matter how strong or weak in magic or whether he could use it or not, would have to do the deed of actually taking the DragonOrb, possibly against the Orders of the Master of the Tower, assuming it was not the Master that was contacted. of course, it is possible that the seige on the Towers of High Sorcery came so suddenly and no chance of changing things (unlike the Catalcysm, where there was plenty of warnings) that by the time someone really realized that the end of the tower of Daltigoth and the other place was coming, and that the DragonOrb had spoken truely, it would be too late..... Of course, then, why would Lorac have stolen the Istar orb then.....Argh, it keeps going back and forth. Option #2- While we know that the Towers of Losarwhatever and Daltigoth were destroyed, would there have been time to get the DragonOrbs out, knowing what their power was? In that, with the attack coming, back then, would the DragonOrbs have been so potent that these most powerfull wizards have known that the DragonOrbs needed to be saved? If so, even with the Towers under attack and we know the covenents of magic would have held that all the robes rushing to the Towers defense, that the order to "save the dragonorb" would be given? This assumes that the Wizards placed the DragonOrbs as perhaps one of the most important items they held. If the DragonOrb was considered "Powerfull, but hardly the most important thing we have", then this order would probably not be issued. Option #3...... Let's say you were a high ranking wizard when the Lost Battles took place and you heard that Daltigoth and the other place were destroyed to save them. And let's say, you knew exactly where the DragonOrbs were kept in those two towers. Would it be feasible, in those years after the Cataclysm, or even before the Cataclysm, that wizards might try to go back in time with a Time Travelling Device? Knowing that with all the chaos going on before the fall of the towers of Daltigoth, there would have been ample time to sneak in, and steal the DragonOrb and then escape? Or to flat out appear before the Master of the Tower of Daltigoth, tell them that the DragonOrb had to be saved? WHile saving the DragonOrb's per se may not be the most "decivive" thing that needs to be done at first, perhaps the Wizards would know to go to the most powerfull items, and I am sure the DragonOrbs would be considered "a powerfull item" even if they were underused. Certainly though, as the Order in Wayreath became aware that the Queen of Darkness had returned, perhaps Par-salian may have ordered missions undertaken to retrieve the DragonOrbs from Daltigoth and elsewhere? Who knows, perhaps Par Salian ordered the DragonOrb of Icewall rescued from one of these Towers placed there specifically for the Hero's of the Lance to find? Option#4 it ties in with the above, but if Wayreath was never threatened, then perhaps it's dragon orb remained there over all the years, a prize only for the Master of the Tower of Wayreath
#2 cam_banks Nov 16, 2004 23:22:57	My players currently have the Orb of Losarcum in their possession, recovered from a dark knight treasury in Port Balifor. It's almost an NPC in its own right. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2004 6:46:13	And what was the Orb that Raistlin recovered from Silvanesti, which, if I don't remember wrong, was destroyed during his little trip to the past? Was that actually the Orb of Losarcum? 1. One was found from Icereach, and later crashed by Tasslehoff. 2. Second was found from High Clerist Tower and probably still remains there. Maybe... 3. Third was with Lorac and later taken by Raistlin, and destroyed by him. Has there been any confirmed fate for remaining two?
#4 cam_banks Nov 17, 2004 8:18:24	And what was the Orb that Raistlin recovered from Silvanesti, which, if I don't remember wrong, was destroyed during his little trip to the past? Was that actually the Orb of Losarcum? No, it was the Orb of Istar. 1. One was found from Icereach, and later crashed by Tasslehoff. 2. Second was found from High Clerist Tower and probably still remains there. Maybe... 3. Third was with Lorac and later taken by Raistlin, and destroyed by him. Has there been any confirmed fate for remaining two? It's likely that the first of these was Wayreth's, the 2nd of these was Palanthas', and the 3rd of these was Istar's. Losarcum and Daltigoth are the only ones whose fate hasn't been accounted for in the novels. In the modules, there was a dragonorb in sunken Istar, with Zebulah and the Dargonesti, but I don't believe this has ever been mentioned outside of that. The adventure the Anvil of Time has a dragonorb in it, but there's no indication which of the remaining two that one is, or even if it's one of the other three taken out of time. Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2004 12:44:34	The one in the High Clerist's Tower was destroyed by a dragon during the War of the Lance.
#6 daedavias_dup Nov 17, 2004 16:05:12	The one in the High Clerist's Tower was destroyed by a dragon during the War of the Lance. Not necessarily. Just because the building practically fell on top of it doesn't mean it was crushed. Personally, I think only two of the dragon orbs are destroyed. I would like to believe that a dragonorb cannot be permanently destroyed in the first place, just like the Device of Time Journeying. Perhaps Gnosh was sitting in his lab one day, about ready to do some more studying of the orb when, POOF!, it was gone.
#7 Sysane Nov 17, 2004 16:44:00	I would like to believe that a dragonorb cannot be permanently destroyed in the first place, just like the Device of Time Journeying. Perhaps Gnosh was sitting in his lab one day, about ready to do some more studying of the orb when, POOF!, it was gone. I agree. They are after all "major artifacts". I would think it would take a bit more than smashing it to destroy them. Random thought. Maybe there was/is a Master Orb that no one knew about that ties the others together. Yes I realize that sounds very LoTR-ish but it would still be a cool concept IMO. :P
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2004 22:44:42	The Questions I would throw out would be this.... 1)If Wayreath was never threatened during the Seige of the Towers of High Sorcery, then how would it's DragonOrb ever have ended up in Icewall Castle? Would it not remain with the Master of the Tower? 2) The Books left at the Library of Palanthus required a DragonOrb to "open it". As such, at least at the time, the Wizards believed that the wizard that could master an Orb would be worthy of their knowledge. At that point of time, Loscarum and Daltigoth had already been destroyed and the Wizards were being allowed to evacuate Palanthus and Istar. It makes sense, going back to the time of the creation of the DragonOrbs, that placing an Orb at the High Clerist's Tower was a prudent move. It would make sense that the DragonOrb of Istar would be treated with similar reverence...unless Lorac's theft of the Orb was done in such a manner that no one knew he had taken it. What do you guys think of the Time Traveling Idea? Of wizards, either Post Lost Battles or Post-Cataclysm, going back in time, just before the towers fell, and stealing the Orbs before the Tower was Destroyed? It would be feasible.
#9 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 1:40:14	I wouldn't go too far in these time-travel theories. Time-travel still should be VERY rare. Only few wizards CAN do it, and even lesser KNOWS how to do it. And then there is the changing the timeline thing - Would it change timeline if Orbs would be rescued/removed from past? I don't know, because we really don't know what could have happened to them after the towers fell... But DmJoeSolarte: I would go for OPTION #2. I thing wizards would have removed most powerful artifacts before destruction of towers. So, basicly some wizard could have taken and hidden the lost orbs. They could have ended anywhere... As for Wayreths Orb: - Maybe it was stolen by some wizard? There could be nice story behind this. - Or how about if Wayreth's Orb is actually still in the tower. It was never taken away, only hidden somewhere in the tower. The knowledge to use would have faded, because there really wasn't any dragons either?! So, maybe it was just forgotten. AND maybe, it was one of those "lost" orbs that was found in Icewall Castle.
#10 Mortepierre Nov 18, 2004 2:28:54	And let's not forget that to actually be able to change the past, you have to be one of the races created by Chaos. So, a human or elven wizard couldn't do it. Well, maybe they could if they dragged a gnome or kender along :P
#11 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 9:14:25	Hmm, interesting theory's. I don't see it as "changing the pasts" to go back in time and perhaps ensure that the DragonOrb's were safegaurded. I have a question, as I can't locate DRAGONS OF WINTER MIDNIGHT anywhere. What was Lorac's purpose for being in Istar when he stole it's orb and where? Was he at the Tower of High Sorcery when he stole it? Was it from the KingPriest's treasure trove? It obviously was before the Cataclysm, perhaps even before the Lost Battles. If the Orb of Istar spoke to Lorac as it did, perhaps as many as 25 years before the Cataclysm, then it is feasible the other DragonOrb's could do the same thing. That might have inspired the Wayreath Dragon Orb to be "moved to safety" in IceWall Castle, even though I think Wayreath, based on the fact that they never seemed to be threatened there, would have been safer. I think it would be more feasible for Daltigoth's DragonOrb to be the one that was moved to Icewall. I think it was standing policy to have the Dragon Orb of Palanthus in the High Clerists Tower, probably in case Vingaard Keep ever fell during the 3rd Dragon War. I also note that the Books of Knowledge in the Library of Palalnthus required a DragonOrb to open them. The Wizards of Palanthus, knowing that the Master of Wayreath had one, would use it when the time was needed to reopen the books. So I think the DragonOrb of Wayreath is probably still there. However, there was probably some convention announced, maintaining that the Orb could only be used if the Tower it'self came under attack, or if a unanimous vote of the Black, Red, and White robes agreed to it's use. Chances are, in the war of the Lance, the Black Robes would have opposed it being used against the DragonArmy's for their own political reasons. However, if the war against the Thorn Knights continued back when it did, I think even the Black Robes would have OK'D the use of the DragonORb against them.
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 9:27:37	I was thinking of using one of the dragon orbs as a plot hook for one of my players, but I was not aware if they were still around. Where would one locate a dragon orb in the Age of Mortals ? ~~~
#13 cam_banks Nov 18, 2004 9:42:42	I was thinking of using one of the dragon orbs as a plot hook for one of my players, but I was not aware if they were still around. Where would one locate a dragon orb in the Age of Mortals ? Anywhere your players are. Seriously. They're a major plot device. You can come up with a hundred different locations for one without having to do a lot of explanation to your players. This is one of those questions for which the answer really, truly is to do what you want, because you're the DM. Don't wait for an "official" answer. Cheers, Cam
#14 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 9:49:57	Anywhere your players are. Seriously. They're a major plot device. You can come up with a hundred different locations for one without having to do a lot of explanation to your players. This is one of those questions for which the answer really, truly is to do what you want, because you're the DM. Don't wait for an "official" answer. Cheers, Cam Right, The reason I am asking is because I am not familiar with the orbs that well, aside from reading about them in the original DL trilogy(And seeing a section on them in one of the DL gaming books I own.). I just want to make sure that the orb I am introducing to the campaign actually still exists. ~~~
#15 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 20:26:25	Right, The reason I am asking is because I am not familiar with the orbs that well, aside from reading about them in the original DL trilogy(And seeing a section on them in one of the DL gaming books I own.). I just want to make sure that the orb I am introducing to the campaign actually still exists. ~~~ Well, I say feel free to borrow one of my ideas. Do it where it is discovered that Par Salian and Justarius and Ladonna, back when the DragonArmy's were first forming, went back in time and secreted the Daltigoth or Loscarum Dragon Orb's out of their towers before the Tower's fell. I still maintain the Wayreath Orb is still in Wayreath, in possession of the master of the Tower. so either of these could be taken, but perhaps something happened, causing when they returned to the present, to have the two Dragon ORb's appear in different places. One of them ended up in IceWall in possession of Feal-Theas and the other appeared.......Wherever it is your Characters are traveling too......
#16 darthsylver Nov 20, 2004 8:00:10	As far as for the one in Icereach, one could say that the Black robes that were in charge od Losarcum wanted to insure that the white robes never got their hands on it (basically trying to hold onto some sort of leverage) and took it to a Tower or Keep in Icereach. Or maybe it was on its way to Wayrethe and was intercepted.
#17 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2004 11:54:39	Hmm, that seems reasonable. Although I do believe that the covenent's among Wizards about conduct within the Tower of High Sorcery would be paramount, and that in those dark days of the Lost Battles, I think even if the Loscarum Tower were dominated by the Black Robes, I think they would put the interests of Magic first and foremost and work with the other orders. The problem is that it is not like it was with Palanthus and Istar, where both were able to withdraw from the Tower's relatively in peace. Daltigoth and Loscarum came under such attack they may not have had time to do the things needed to do. So perhaps, is it possible that the Loscarum Dragon Orb Warned a wizard in the same manner that the Istar DragonOrb warned Lorac of the Silvanesti? It would then become feasible that a wizard, acting on it's own, would move the DragonOrb much like Lorac did. And it would seem the Daltigoth Orb could do the same.
#18 darthsylver Nov 20, 2004 18:39:40	Well let's also take into account the fifth age. Yes everybody assumes that the dragonorbs for Losarcum and Daltigoth were destroyed. Ok, let's first determine what orbs were where. It seems obvious that the Blue dragonorb was in Palanthas (The Lore-Spire) and was from that tower. The orb Lorac had we know came from Istar as wehave been told and it attracted Cyan Bloodbane (a green dragon) so what do we have left. Red White Black It is reasonable to assume that the orb in Wayreth was not destroyed. As Khisanth laired in Xak Tsaroth, we might assume that said dragon was attracted to teh black dragonorb if it was held in Wayreth. This would leave us the white and red. Now let us assume that the white was in Daltigoth and the Red was in Losarcum as well as to assume that neither was destroyed with the tower. This would give us an explaination as to why Malystryx laired so close to the Ruins in Kendermore. She was attracted to the power of the red dragonorb. For centuries we have been told that the ruins were looted by scavengers and kender of anything of value. However, nobody who has ever ventured there has lived and returned to tell the tale, except of course the kender (if they are to be believed.) I do not recall which orb was actually recovered in the Icereach (it would not really matter if it also happened to be the one destroyed by Tasselhoff).
#19 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2004 19:57:54	Well let's also take into account the fifth age. Yes everybody assumes that the dragonorbs for Losarcum and Daltigoth were destroyed. Ok, let's first determine what orbs were where. Yes, that is what the theory is. Based on the fact that the LOST BATTLES and the Seiges of those two towers were so sudden and so quick, that the Wizards within, deciding the aritifacts and power they had were too important to leave in the hands of mere mortals, decided to destroy them. I would then throw out the argument that if the DragonOrb of Istar could sense impending doom of the Cataclysm coming, which happened either before the Cataclysm if Lorac stole it from a treasure trove of the KingPriest, or the Orb was stolen before even the Lost Battles, meaning the Dragon Orb sensed this 25years+ prior to the Cataclysm. It seems obvious that the Blue dragonorb was in Palanthas (The Lore-Spire) and was from that tower. Yes. That is the general sentiment. Probably in the 3rd DragonWar, when it seemed that Vingaard Keep could not hold, the DragonOrb was moved there in case Vingaard Keep fell. ANd then, perhaps this was known only to the Grand Master and High Clerists of the Knights of Solamnia as well as the Master of the Tower of Palanthus. And when the Order of Magic left Palanthus, and later when teh Grand Master and High Clerist would both disappear in the Night of Doom prior to the Cataclysm, this secret would have been lost to time untill Tasslehoff found it. The orb Lorac had we know came from Istar as wehave been told and it attracted Cyan Bloodbane (a green dragon) so what do we have left. The only thing we don't know that I consider relevent is whether Lorac stole this Orb BEFORE the Cataclysm but AFTER the Lost Battles when the ORder's abandoned the Tower of High Sorcery in Istar. If that happened, then the Dragon Orb of Istar was reacting at leat 20 years ahead of the impending Cataclysm. BUt....if the DragonOrb warned Lorac BEFORE the Lost Battles, then the Dragon Orb had an even greater affinity to impending doom if the Dragon Orb was reacting to the impending War against Magic. If so, then it is reasonable that the other Dragon Orbs in threatened City's would likewise try to warn someone to save them, to whatever success they found. Red White Black It is reasonable to assume that the orb in Wayreth was not destroyed. As Khisanth laired in Xak Tsaroth, we might assume that said dragon was attracted to teh black dragonorb if it was held in Wayreth. Yes. My theory is one of two. Either this DragonOrb remains in possession of the Master of the Tower of Wayreath. However, the ruling is that the Orb cannot be moved from Wayreath UNLESS the Tower comes under attack by the forces of the Dragon Queen (in which case, all red, white and black robes would readily agree to it's use to defend the tower), OR there is some sort of unanimous verdict amongst the elders of the order to use the Dragon Orb's. I imagine that the Black and even the Red Robes would oppose just sending the Dragon Orb out just because Takhisis and her DragonArmies were threatening all of Ansalon, and I doubt even the White Robes would be so callous and petty as to push for such a move. Essentially that the decision to keep the DragonOrb in Wayreath is subject to internal politics of the ORders of Magic. Option #2 dictates that perhaps the DragonOrb was moved perhaps to IceWall for safety and that is the one recovered by Lauranna and company and later destroyed by Tasslehoff at White Stone. This would leave us the white and red. Now let us assume that the white was in Daltigoth and the Red was in Losarcum as well as to assume that neither was destroyed with the tower. This would give us an explaination as to why Malystryx laired so close to the Ruins in Kendermore. She was attracted to the power of the red dragonorb. For centuries we have been told that the ruins were looted by scavengers and kender of anything of value. However, nobody who has ever ventured there has lived and returned to tell the tale, except of course the kender (if they are to be believed.) I do not recall which orb was actually recovered in the Icereach (it would not really matter if it also happened to be the one destroyed by Tasselhoff). TO me, the above dictates that while the DragonOrb of Istar realized the end was coming, that the other two did not (Daltigoth and Losarcum). If the DragonORb of Istar could sense impending doom from either the Cataclysm or the Lost Battles, then so could the other too, and perhaps could sense this many years in advance. If a DragonOrb can sense something happening so many years in advance, then it would be able to non-stop seek help in escaping. So I have to pose the following question: 1) Lorac was in Istar. Has it been confirmed exactly where and when he was there and where he took the DragonOrb from? If he took the DragonOrb from the Tower of Istar, then he most likely did so before the Lost Battles at a minimum and thus we are 20 years before the cataclysm. We would have to wonder how Lorac, whom back then was relatively young, and while he passed his test, was rather a novice at magic. Perhaps the fact he was either the heir to the Crown of the Silvanesti, or perhaps was already SPeaker of the Stars, but I doubt based on the covenants of Magic, that being the Speaker of the Stars would grant him access to Istar's Tower of High Sorcery unfettered. if he Took the Dragon Orb AFTER the lost battles, then either he was there to help "evacuate" the Tower (something he might have done as he considered himself a member of the White Robes) and in doing so the Dragon Orb was warning him about the Cataclysm. Or he would have had to steal it from some treasure trove of the KingPriest, which seems likely that the Speaker of the Stars might be making a pilgramige to Istar and then stole the DragonOrb.
#20 zombiegleemax Nov 22, 2004 20:23:22	I guess I have an update on this debate. 1) The DragonOrb of IceWall. According to Dragon's of Winder MIdnight, the location to this DragonOrb was detailed in ancient texts found in the great library of Tarsis. As this proved out, this means that IceWall's DragonOrb was located in Icewall before the Cataclysm for whatever reason. THis is starting to add up, to me, that the Dragon Orbs were NOT kept at the Towers of High Sorcery neccesarily. We know one was kept in the High Clerists Tower and another in IceWall now.
#21 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2004 15:09:35	There are a lot of interesting ideas in this thread about how the remaining two Dragonorbs survived, but how about one regarding how they were destroyed? I personally ascribe to the semi-official "all five are destroyed" line, and I had a thought while reading this thread - what if the orbs of Losarcum and Daltigoth were not merely destroyed along with their towers, but were perhaps actually used as the catalysts for their destruction? Obviously, it would take a lot of raw magical power to destroy structures like the Towers of High Sorcery which naturally had a lot of magic bound up in keeping them protected and whole, so might it not be reasonable to speculate that the wizards killed two birds with one stone - both solving the problem of finding a source of power to draw upon to ensure the towers' destruction, while also keeping such dangerous (and manipulative) artifacts out of the wrong hands? To be honest, this is mostly fueled by the really cool image in my mind of the wizards setting an orb to "self-destruct" and then blowing the whole tower to kingdom-come. =P
#22 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2004 22:09:41	There are a lot of interesting ideas in this thread about how the remaining two Dragonorbs survived, but how about one regarding how they were destroyed? I personally ascribe to the semi-official "all five are destroyed" line, and I had a thought while reading this thread - what if the orbs of Losarcum and Daltigoth were not merely destroyed along with their towers, but were perhaps actually used as the catalysts for their destruction? Obviously, it would take a lot of raw magical power to destroy structures like the Towers of High Sorcery which naturally had a lot of magic bound up in keeping them protected and whole, so might it not be reasonable to speculate that the wizards killed two birds with one stone - both solving the problem of finding a source of power to draw upon to ensure the towers' destruction, while also keeping such dangerous (and manipulative) artifacts out of the wrong hands? To be honest, this is mostly fueled by the really cool image in my mind of the wizards setting an orb to "self-destruct" and then blowing the whole tower to kingdom-come. =P That's a very interesting theory. I like to think that the DragonOrb's were to sacred an artifact to be left in the hands of the mobs, and with the Towers threatened, that certainly is a very real possiblity that they would use the Orb to destroy the tower. This is getting off the subject, but if Dalamar was strong enough to move the Tower of Palanthus to Knightlund, would it not be feasible that the wizards of the age would have the power also to move the towers of Daltigoth and Loscaraum as well? Or perhaps they were moved, and the destruction that was left in it's wake just happened to be the side effect?
#23 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2004 23:57:24	Here is my take on the whole Dragon Orb situation....though keep in mind i am only a DL book reader, I dont do gaming. So here we go: *Orb from the Tower of Istar-----Now in Zebulah's Study in drowned Istar *Orb from the Tower of Wayreth---Was in Icewall, then was ""destroyed?"" by tas *Orb from the Tower of Edon/Losarcum---Silvanost, but then taken by Raistlin *Orb from the Tower of Palanthas---High Clerist's Tower (assumed destroyed when tower fell in) *Orb from the Tower of Daltigoth---At the Anvil of Time
#24 zombiegleemax Dec 04, 2004 11:32:50	I can see why the Orders of High Sorcery, even before the Lost Battles, would move the DragonOrb of Palanthus to the High Clerists Tower. Since the DragonTraps of the Tower seemed to be specifically built to allow for such, it seems only obvious that they would move the DragonOrb there, specifically when it seemed Vingaard Keep would fall in the 3rd DragonWar. BUt I don't see how the DragonOrb of Wayreath would end up in IceWall Castle. From what I can tell, there was not even an IceWall Castle pre-Cataclysm. Perhaps it was a powerfull wizards fortress (ala SKullcap) but for it to appear in a text around the time of the Cataclysm for Tasslehoff to discover later in the Tarsis Library......
#25 darthsylver Dec 05, 2004 4:21:43	Well as far as for "official" history we have no reason, but taking the example of the high clerist tower we "could" assume that such towers\traps for each orb to complement it's power. For instance the biggesst forest is on the southern portion of the continent which would explain why Lorac ended up with the Green Dragonorb. Yes the green orb was originally stored in Istar but what if there was a tower (of the high clerist) in Silvanesti or somewhere close by, it would have been easier for Lorac to take the orb from here rather than the tower in Istar. Mayhap the same holds true for the other orbs to include the Orb of Wayreth.
#26 darthsylver Dec 05, 2004 4:32:43	Well as far as for "official" history we have no reason, but taking the example of the high clerist tower we "could" assume that such towers\traps were built for each orb to complement it's power. For instance the biggesst forest is on the southern portion of the continent which would explain why Lorac ended up with the Green Dragonorb. Yes the green orb was originally stored in Istar but what if there was a tower (of the high clerist) in Silvanesti or somewhere close by, it would have been easier for Lorac to take the orb from here rather than the tower in Istar. Mayhap the same holds true for the other orbs to include the Orb of Wayreth.
#27 zombiegleemax Dec 05, 2004 13:26:44	Well as far as for "official" history we have no reason, but taking the example of the high clerist tower we "could" assume that such towers\traps for each orb to complement it's power. I guess it matters on when the DragonOrb was actually moved. If the Wizards of the Tower of Palanthus realized that the High Clerists tower was ideal to defend against an attack by Dragons, perhaps the Wizards decided on their own to move it there to take advantage of the Tower's Construction. It seems almost certain it would have happened in those last few weeks of the 3rd DragonOrb, before Huma first brought the DragonLances to the Knights, when it seemed Vingaard Keep would fall. During that time, when word got out that the Eastern and Western Marches of Solamnia had fallen to the forces of the Queen of Darkness (I am sure Rennard would have had something to do in stirring this as well), then I can imagine there may have been a rush to fortify the High Clerist's Tower of Palanthus. For instance the biggesst forest is on the southern portion of the continent which would explain why Lorac ended up with the Green Dragonorb. Yes the green orb was originally stored in Istar but what if there was a tower (of the high clerist) in Silvanesti or somewhere close by, it would have been easier for Lorac to take the orb from here rather than the tower in Istar. Well, I see where that is coming from. The thing is, I don't believe Lorac went to Istar with the intent of stealing the DragonOrb, it is clear it was a spontaneous decision. The DragonOrb warned him (whether the Dragon ORb sensed the Lost Battles approaching or the Cataclysm), and he took it. I guess it depends on just WHEN it was stolen. If it was before the Lost Battles and before the Wizards abandoned the Tower of High Sorcery in Istar, then to be sure, Lorac did so totally different. If it was after the Tower fell and from a treasure trove of the KingPriest, then obviously, the DragonOrb was reacting to the Cataclysm. Mayhap the same holds true for the other orbs to include the Orb of Wayreth. My problem is whether the other DragonOrbs tried to save themselves. Obviously, somehow, a DragonOrb ended up in IceWall when maps I have looked at don't even show that IceWall Existed back then. Oh well, much to ponder.
#28 zombiegleemax Dec 05, 2004 19:14:51	Wasn't the palanthas orb an important part of the dragontraps at the high clerist's tower. Because without having the orb at the center the dragons would not be attracted down through the tunnels. And also...doesnt the "Towers of High Sorcery" sourcebook clear up all of this mess about the Dragon orbs, I would think that it would however I dont have access to this particular book.
#29 zombiegleemax Dec 05, 2004 22:22:36	Wasn't the palanthas orb an important part of the dragontraps at the high clerist's tower. Because without having the orb at the center the dragons would not be attracted down through the tunnels. And also...doesnt the "Towers of High Sorcery" sourcebook clear up all of this mess about the Dragon orbs, I would think that it would however I dont have access to this particular book. I guess I need to get the TOWERS OF HIGH SORCERY to confirm that. WHile I did read their stat's and stuff on the DragonOrb's, it does not go into detail on just where the Dragon Orbs were located.
#30 zombiegleemax Dec 08, 2004 9:38:49	According to Towers of High Sorcery, we have: #1: Palanthas: moved to High Clerist's Tower, not destroyed #2: Istar: stolen by Lorac, taken by Raistlin, destroyed when Raist time traveled #3: Losarcum: destroyed by the Lost Battles #4: Daltigoth: destroyed by the Lost Battles #5: Wayreth: apparently the Icewall orb, destroyed by Tas at the Whitestone Council However, the orbs employ a modified version of timereaver to see into the future, so it is highly possible that the Losarcum and Daltigoth orbs made a quiet escape with some low-level mage and kept a low profile. I personally believe that they are capable of reforming(since they are major artifacts), so the one Tas destroyed would undestroy itself eventually. And btw, Dragonlance dragon orbs don't have specific colors, that's just the DMG orbs of dragonkind. Very separate things.
#31 cam_banks Dec 08, 2004 10:05:14	And btw, Dragonlance dragon orbs don't have specific colors, that's just the DMG orbs of dragonkind. Very separate things. Indeed. It's easy to see how they could have been confused, however - the dragon orbs of Krynn were inspired by the 1st edition orbs of dragonkind which made their way into every successive edition since then. Along the way, of course, Krynn's orbs became their own thing (since DL6, when it was known as the orb of the silver dragon) and the "core" orbs were variously attributed to Greyhawk, the Realms, and so forth. Cheers, Cam
#32 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2004 0:18:50	I have maintained, that if the DragonOrb of Istar could sense it's impending doom (whether it was the Cataclysm or the Lost Battles), then it seems fair to assume that the other DragonOrb's could have done the same thing and be secreted away. While it does not make any sense that the Ancient Text from that book in the LIbrary at Tarsis would detail where the IceWall DragonOrb was, as according to the PreCataclysm map, there was no icewall castle back then. I do like the idea that a DragonOrbs were actually the "detonators" for destroying Loscarums and Daltigoth's Tower's. And....imagine the following scenario. The Orders of Magic DID try to prevent the Cataclysm via Time Travel to no avail (as said in book 1 of the TWINS TRILOGY). While after a while they must have realized they could not change that part of history, perhaps they realized that they could use TimeTravel to go back and ensure things were done to minimize the losses. I would imagine sending someone back to Daltigoth and Loscarum to secure their DragonOrb's and bring them back would be a good idea, as would perhaps moving the GateWay's to the Abyss as well to somewhere else.
#33 cam_banks Dec 09, 2004 6:08:51	While it does not make any sense that the Ancient Text from that book in the LIbrary at Tarsis would detail where the IceWall DragonOrb was, as according to the PreCataclysm map, there was no icewall castle back then. Icewall Castle is a pre-Cataclysm structure. Module DL6 states that prior to the Cataclysm, it was a stone castle built upon an island to the south of Tarsis, on a promontory looking out over the sea. The eventual glaciation of the area after the Fiery Mountain struck swept the island up and connected it with what is now the Icewall Glacier. There's a dragon and rider frozen in the ice beneath it, too, although how they got there is up for debate. Cheers, Cam
#34 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2004 22:13:42	Icewall Castle is a pre-Cataclysm structure. Module DL6 states that prior to the Cataclysm, it was a stone castle built upon an island to the south of Tarsis, on a promontory looking out over the sea. The eventual glaciation of the area after the Fiery Mountain struck swept the island up and connected it with what is now the Icewall Glacier. There's a dragon and rider frozen in the ice beneath it, too, although how they got there is up for debate. Cheers, Cam Well, based on that that, it seems very possible that the DragonOrb's were not restricted to just the Towers of High Sorcery. It is still not official as to where Lorac took the DragonOrb of Istar from. It may have been from the Tower of High Sorcery prior to the Lost Battles; or it may have been located at some Temple of the KingPriest prior to the Cataclysm. Add to it the fact that Palanthus' was stored at the High Clerists tower, and you get more reason to believe they may not have been there at all. For example, why move Palanthus's Portal of the Abyss to SkullCap? Obviously, because it was safe there (so they thought). So it seems reasonable that they would move DragonOrbs now to places that were not of the Orders for their safety.
#35 zombiegleemax Dec 10, 2004 16:27:19	It is still not official as to where Lorac took the DragonOrb of Istar from. In the novel Dalamar the Dark, Lorac is stealing the Orb from the tower in Istar, although I have my doubts as to that particular books accuracy, seeing as I believe the Cataclysm strikes as soon as Lorac walks out the door.
#36 zombiegleemax Dec 10, 2004 20:18:30	In the novel Dalamar the Dark, Lorac is stealing the Orb from the tower in Istar, although I have my doubts as to that particular books accuracy, seeing as I believe the Cataclysm strikes as soon as Lorac walks out the door. I misplaced my copy of Dragons' of Winter Night and as such, it is there that Alhana relates the story of the DragonOrb of Istar to Tanis. But I don't for the life of me recall where it came from. If we go by DALAMAR THE DARK's book, where it was stolen from Istar.... Option #1- Perhaps Lorac, as a confirmed member of the Orders of High Sorcery as he did pass his test, came to Istar after it was announced that the Order would withdraw from Istar to Wayreath. During the "Cleaning out" part, he may have been "contacted" by the Orb, and decided to take it. Although it is clear to at least me, that they had plenty of time to clean out this particular Tower. Wheras in Palanthus, they were able to move a lot of their tomes to the Library of Astinus. As such, Lorac stole it during a move, for all intents and purposes. Option #2- The Orb was left behind in the TOwer of Istar when the KingPriest moved in. Lorac may have been making an official pilgramage to Istar in his role as Speaker of the Star's and from there stole it. OPtion #3- The "Event happening as Lorac walks out the door" was actually the "LOST BATTLES". If so, then Lorac was at the Tower before the Orders withdrew. But if Istar was never in real danger of being destroyed.... Questions questions.....
#37 darthsylver Dec 13, 2004 18:54:54	Alright now we have two conflicting stories, because in the WoTL supplement book it states (in Lorac's write-up) that the orb was taken from th eotwer by Lorac right after lorac took his test, before the Age of Might even begain. So it had to be well before the lost battles and even the cataclysm. Now if the Istar orb could predict the cataclysm and its destruction it stands to reason that all dragon orbs could. So now e look at which orbs were in actual danger. Istar - Yes (obviously because it acted to save itself) Palanthas - No (If the orb was in the tower when tower was handed over, it would be locked in tower until Raistlin. Obviously it was not and was in no danger being in the high clerist where it was later used in the WoTL.) Losarcum - Yes (Because said tower was destroyed) Daltigoth - Yes (Because said tower was destroyed) Wayreth - No (Because wayreth was never under assault\siege) Now if we assume that the Orb found in the Icewall is the orb from Wayreth, (fair assumption because otherwise the wizards presumably would have volunteered it's use, if it was at wayreth) then we can assume the other two would have acted to save themselves. Now again with assumptions. Palanthas orb - Blue Istar orb - Green Wayreth orb - White That leaves the Black and Red orbs. Where would they be?
#38 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2004 22:21:06	1) there are no "colored" orbs in DragonLance DragonOrbs. THe "Colors" come from official DnD sources, but DragonLance does not have it. 2) Well, if Istar's DragonOrb could sense the Cataclysm or Lost Battles approaching, then yes, all of htem probably could. The Palanthus DragonOrb probably could tell it was safe where it was. My theory- The DragonOrbs of Loscarum and Daltigoth were also able get someone to rescue them as well. Perhaps the Orb of IceWall Castle is one of these two. That means there could be another DragonOrb out there, hidden well away waiting to be found. The Wayreath DragonOrb is still in Wayreath. However, for political reasons, the Orb is probably forbidden from being removed from the Tower unless one of the two conditions are met. ***By a unanimous vote on the part of the entire leadership of the Orders of Magic for whatever reason. ***If the Tower itself comes under attack.