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death & dragonlance

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
edgelett
Nov 18, 2004 17:30:34 I've noticed in the DL novels that characters never/rarely are raised from the dead after they die.

How many people here playing the DLCS raise their characters if they die in battle?? Or are you happy to let them meet their Gods?
#2
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2004 19:02:35 If you pay attention to the story line and hopefully I'm not giving you false information because I'm new at this so I know what I read and hear. Divine power in DragonLance world really isn't all that easy to just have. Most clerics don't know enough are, rather connected to there gods to have resurrecting powers. I find that DragonLance gods kind of do what they want and careless for Krynn.
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2004 20:00:23 The way I read and play the setting is, that most commonfolk assume once a person dies they are dead and pass on into the thereafter. That bringing someone back from their timely or untimely demise is somehow wrong. That that person should be allowed to move onto the reward in the afterlife.

In my own group when a party member's character dies in my campaign it stays dead, unless I need it for the story. As a matter of fact, one of my party members fighter recently passed on. I need his character for a little while longer so I'll allow him to be brought back, but I'm making the party wait for some until the local clergy can located someone within their church capable of casting Raise Dead, Ressurection, or True Ressurection.

What's the point of caution or problem solving when you know the DM will bring you back everytime you die. I don't want the players to think that whenever they die that they'll find a scroll or magic item that will bring them back to life.
#4
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2004 11:41:37 I believe it was said in Legends regarding Crysania. After Soth used his death magic against her, the Conclave (Par Salian?) stated she needed to go back to the one person that could save her, The Kingpriest. Leading me to believe that not even Elistan, who was the most powerful cleric at the time could cast raise dead. In fact I believe that in the Kingpriest trilogy it states that the Kingpriest had only been able to do this only one other time with Cathan, so even the most powerful of clerics in Krynn are not very successful at it. My house rule for my DL games is that if your charcter dies it was the will of the gods that you pass from the mortal coil. This way it cuases the characters to be more careful, and should I ever have to use a raise dead (to save a plot line) it will be the miracle that it should be
#5
darthsylver
Nov 20, 2004 7:51:51 It was my impression that clerics in DL were more along the lines of specialty priests and only had spellcasting ability that pertained to their deities interests. In short I did not believe that all clerics had the ability (regardless of their level) to raise dead or even to heal others.

For instance I would have thought (as presented in the DLA) that clerics of Hiddukel were thieves, con artists, and swindlers that only used spells of trickery and illusion and maybe charm but as they did not usually conduct outright combat against their enemies (they would use intermediaries) then they did not need healing abilities and other such spells.

Granted the Kingpriest shot my theory out of the water (unless of course he was in reality a Mystic without knowing it).
#6
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2004 12:03:26 Here is a way to look at it.

Imagine, if during DRAGONS OF AUTUMN TWILIGHT, if the character for Riverwind, what he would have thought, when Khisanth killed his character for a time, or when GoldMoon seemingly was destroyed by the power of the Dragon and the BlueCrystal Staff.

Yet both were restrored. Obviously, it is harder to say this when we are talkinga bout the novels: I gaurnatee you that if an Author desires something to happen, I gaurantee it will happen.

The only thing I could add about the Kingpriest raising the dead, is that perhaps he was the most powerfull Cleric of Paladine to ever do it. It seems that it would be more feasible for a high level Cleric of Mishakall to do so as well.
#7
darthsylver
Nov 20, 2004 18:24:06 Well see the thing with the kingpriest, he only did it once. He even tried (IIRC from the books) to do it a second time and failed. But even the first time was a very rare occurance.
#8
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2004 18:52:05 It's my own belief that the gods of Krynn view life as a gift to each individual. What each person makes of that gift is up to them. Whether they choose to squander, share, or hoard it is up to them. Once that gift expires or is spent they are sent on to the next life, whatever it may be. Bringing someone back would almost be an affront to them. Granting someone a second gift where someone else doesn't recieve one is outside the rules. Not to say it doesn't happen though in special instances.
#9
wolffenjugend_dup
Nov 20, 2004 19:36:41 DL novels don't have to worry about unlucky die rolls...
#10
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2004 20:04:35 I would also point out Crysannia's useage of her own clerical abillities to save Raistlin. Yes, he was not dead, but was mortally wounded in a manner that the timestream should have finished him and he was not supposed to be able to be healed by such means.

Yes, the Novels don't have to worry about bad die rolls. If we did that, there is no way that Tanis could have dealt Ariakas the death blow that he dealt him, for example.
#11
Sysane
Nov 21, 2004 8:49:31 Makes you wish that they kept the system shock rule from 2E. As a game mechanic maybe raise dead type effects should require a high Fort save of some kind in order to survive the spell.

This way the DM doesn't absolutely have to rule out that a PC can't be raised from the dead, but that it is highly difficult to do so successfully.

I’d also recommend that only the spell raise dead be allowed vs resurrection. That way PC can’t come across long dead character and bring them back to life.

Just my two steel :P
#12
zombiegleemax
Nov 21, 2004 11:27:25 Obviously, we have to always factor in as far as the novels go what the authors want. FOr example, I thought it was abundantly clear that Tasslehoff was killed by Chaos, yet he returned obviously for literary/novel purposes. I am sure if Weis/Hickman are writing, that Tanis and Laurana and just about anyone else can surface if they want.
#13
fizban_the_great
Nov 21, 2004 12:41:02 Even if the goods were gone, Goldmoon was saved in the Eve of Maelstrom by Jean Rabe... Riverwind himself said that it wasn't her time to die... And she didin' even need any cleric or wizard.... :P
#14
darthsylver
Nov 21, 2004 12:47:10 Well just to clarify Tas did get killed by chaos. He just gets killed after going to the future and then returning.
#15
fizban_the_great
Nov 21, 2004 12:59:50 Tas was suppose to die by Chaos... Just he was smart enough to decide in that moment to go to Caramon's funural :P
Even thou he died he didn't had death wish...
#16
zombiegleemax
Nov 21, 2004 21:01:59 I believe they originally intended to kill Tass when he got crushed by Chaos. However, as it happens often enough, they saw the opportunity to bring him back and so they did.
#17
zombiegleemax
Nov 21, 2004 21:38:24 Actually, yes, Tasselhoff did get killed by Chaos...it went somehting like this:

*Spoiler Space*

Note: This is direct excerpt from the War of Souls novels...

Tas: *stabs Chaos*
Chaos: Oh no, I'm dying!
Tas: Ha ha! Let's all point and laugh at Chaos!
Chaos: *stomps Tas*
Tas: Oh, wait! I forgot to go to Caramon's funeral!*uses Device of Time Journeying*
Caramon: Whoa! Tas is here! Heart attack!
Tas: Whoa! It's my ghost!
Ghost Tas: Give me magic!
Raistlin: The dragons are on the moon.
Tas: Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!! Okay, I'll go back.
Chaos: Chaos...SMASH!!!
Tas: Just get it over with.
Flint: There you are!
Tas: Let's light Reox's forge.
And there they sat.

And that's exactly how it went. Aren't Tracy and Margaret great writers! I can't believe it took them 3 novels to write that...
#18
zombiegleemax
Nov 22, 2004 11:02:00 I have suffered character death three times.
1:Player wanted to play a new character.
2:CL 14-16(Don't remember where on that scale) cleric cast Ressurection.
3:She died in our last session.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edgelett Nov 18, 2004 17:30:34	I've noticed in the DL novels that characters never/rarely are raised from the dead after they die. How many people here playing the DLCS raise their characters if they die in battle?? Or are you happy to let them meet their Gods?
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 19:02:35	If you pay attention to the story line and hopefully I'm not giving you false information because I'm new at this so I know what I read and hear. Divine power in DragonLance world really isn't all that easy to just have. Most clerics don't know enough are, rather connected to there gods to have resurrecting powers. I find that DragonLance gods kind of do what they want and careless for Krynn.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 20:00:23	The way I read and play the setting is, that most commonfolk assume once a person dies they are dead and pass on into the thereafter. That bringing someone back from their timely or untimely demise is somehow wrong. That that person should be allowed to move onto the reward in the afterlife. In my own group when a party member's character dies in my campaign it stays dead, unless I need it for the story. As a matter of fact, one of my party members fighter recently passed on. I need his character for a little while longer so I'll allow him to be brought back, but I'm making the party wait for some until the local clergy can located someone within their church capable of casting Raise Dead, Ressurection, or True Ressurection. What's the point of caution or problem solving when you know the DM will bring you back everytime you die. I don't want the players to think that whenever they die that they'll find a scroll or magic item that will bring them back to life.
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2004 11:41:37	I believe it was said in Legends regarding Crysania. After Soth used his death magic against her, the Conclave (Par Salian?) stated she needed to go back to the one person that could save her, The Kingpriest. Leading me to believe that not even Elistan, who was the most powerful cleric at the time could cast raise dead. In fact I believe that in the Kingpriest trilogy it states that the Kingpriest had only been able to do this only one other time with Cathan, so even the most powerful of clerics in Krynn are not very successful at it. My house rule for my DL games is that if your charcter dies it was the will of the gods that you pass from the mortal coil. This way it cuases the characters to be more careful, and should I ever have to use a raise dead (to save a plot line) it will be the miracle that it should be
#5 darthsylver Nov 20, 2004 7:51:51	It was my impression that clerics in DL were more along the lines of specialty priests and only had spellcasting ability that pertained to their deities interests. In short I did not believe that all clerics had the ability (regardless of their level) to raise dead or even to heal others. For instance I would have thought (as presented in the DLA) that clerics of Hiddukel were thieves, con artists, and swindlers that only used spells of trickery and illusion and maybe charm but as they did not usually conduct outright combat against their enemies (they would use intermediaries) then they did not need healing abilities and other such spells. Granted the Kingpriest shot my theory out of the water (unless of course he was in reality a Mystic without knowing it).
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2004 12:03:26	Here is a way to look at it. Imagine, if during DRAGONS OF AUTUMN TWILIGHT, if the character for Riverwind, what he would have thought, when Khisanth killed his character for a time, or when GoldMoon seemingly was destroyed by the power of the Dragon and the BlueCrystal Staff. Yet both were restrored. Obviously, it is harder to say this when we are talkinga bout the novels: I gaurnatee you that if an Author desires something to happen, I gaurantee it will happen. The only thing I could add about the Kingpriest raising the dead, is that perhaps he was the most powerfull Cleric of Paladine to ever do it. It seems that it would be more feasible for a high level Cleric of Mishakall to do so as well.
#7 darthsylver Nov 20, 2004 18:24:06	Well see the thing with the kingpriest, he only did it once. He even tried (IIRC from the books) to do it a second time and failed. But even the first time was a very rare occurance.
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2004 18:52:05	It's my own belief that the gods of Krynn view life as a gift to each individual. What each person makes of that gift is up to them. Whether they choose to squander, share, or hoard it is up to them. Once that gift expires or is spent they are sent on to the next life, whatever it may be. Bringing someone back would almost be an affront to them. Granting someone a second gift where someone else doesn't recieve one is outside the rules. Not to say it doesn't happen though in special instances.
#9 wolffenjugend_dup Nov 20, 2004 19:36:41	DL novels don't have to worry about unlucky die rolls...
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2004 20:04:35	I would also point out Crysannia's useage of her own clerical abillities to save Raistlin. Yes, he was not dead, but was mortally wounded in a manner that the timestream should have finished him and he was not supposed to be able to be healed by such means. Yes, the Novels don't have to worry about bad die rolls. If we did that, there is no way that Tanis could have dealt Ariakas the death blow that he dealt him, for example.
#11 Sysane Nov 21, 2004 8:49:31	Makes you wish that they kept the system shock rule from 2E. As a game mechanic maybe raise dead type effects should require a high Fort save of some kind in order to survive the spell. This way the DM doesn't absolutely have to rule out that a PC can't be raised from the dead, but that it is highly difficult to do so successfully. I’d also recommend that only the spell raise dead be allowed vs resurrection. That way PC can’t come across long dead character and bring them back to life. Just my two steel :P
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 21, 2004 11:27:25	Obviously, we have to always factor in as far as the novels go what the authors want. FOr example, I thought it was abundantly clear that Tasslehoff was killed by Chaos, yet he returned obviously for literary/novel purposes. I am sure if Weis/Hickman are writing, that Tanis and Laurana and just about anyone else can surface if they want.
#13 fizban_the_great Nov 21, 2004 12:41:02	Even if the goods were gone, Goldmoon was saved in the Eve of Maelstrom by Jean Rabe... Riverwind himself said that it wasn't her time to die... And she didin' even need any cleric or wizard.... :P
#14 darthsylver Nov 21, 2004 12:47:10	Well just to clarify Tas did get killed by chaos. He just gets killed after going to the future and then returning.
#15 fizban_the_great Nov 21, 2004 12:59:50	Tas was suppose to die by Chaos... Just he was smart enough to decide in that moment to go to Caramon's funural :P Even thou he died he didn't had death wish...
#16 zombiegleemax Nov 21, 2004 21:01:59	I believe they originally intended to kill Tass when he got crushed by Chaos. However, as it happens often enough, they saw the opportunity to bring him back and so they did.
#17 zombiegleemax Nov 21, 2004 21:38:24	Actually, yes, Tasselhoff did get killed by Chaos...it went somehting like this: Spoiler Space Note: This is direct excerpt from the War of Souls novels... Tas: stabs Chaos Chaos: Oh no, I'm dying! Tas: Ha ha! Let's all point and laugh at Chaos! Chaos: stomps Tas Tas: Oh, wait! I forgot to go to Caramon's funeral!uses Device of Time Journeying Caramon: Whoa! Tas is here! Heart attack! Tas: Whoa! It's my ghost! Ghost Tas: Give me magic! Raistlin: The dragons are on the moon. Tas: Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!! Okay, I'll go back. Chaos: Chaos...SMASH!!! Tas: Just get it over with. Flint: There you are! Tas: Let's light Reox's forge. And there they sat. And that's exactly how it went. Aren't Tracy and Margaret great writers! I can't believe it took them 3 novels to write that...
#18 zombiegleemax Nov 22, 2004 11:02:00	I have suffered character death three times. 1:Player wanted to play a new character. 2:CL 14-16(Don't remember where on that scale) cleric cast Ressurection. 3:She died in our last session.