In third edition this doesnt work well because doing it exactly like it was done in 2nd edition would really make players angry and hinder them more so in 3.5. So I have come up with a reasonable conversion...almost.
I have surmised taking the same +2 sword created on the prime and taking it to the Outer Planes would likewise make it a +0 weapon.
This doesn't though, take into consideration weapon special abilities. Thinking it over a bit I remembered when creating a magic weapon in 3.0 and 3.5 special abilities had equivalent pluses associated with them to determine cost.
So taking that I have determined as an example that a +2 keen sword created on the ethereal plane taken to the Outer planes would lose 3 effective pluses(prime to astral to Outer). To do this actual pluses go dormant first, making it a +0 keen sword( I figure take away the weapons actual pluses first before going for special abilities). Associating now abilities with the equivalent plus association in the DMG a Keen enchantment has a +1 value which covers the last plus bringing it back down again to a measley +0 magical sword with no special ability.
*takes a deep breath* Now what does one do about it when the same sword is still 3 planes away from its origin but it is now a +1 sword with a +3 equivalent special ability?!! Do you take away it all or do you only take away the +1 enhancement because the plane isnt potent enough to totally consume the second +3 ability? HELP!!
I must state that this is an interesting method of dealing with planar scenarios, but again, in 3.5 and especially in 3.0, it doesn't work well because most of the encounters found in planar settings require magic weapons to be effective, and are often of higher difficulty than Prime encounters - in effect imposing a double penalty upon players.
Now I agree planar encounters are more difficult and to me that is what the planes are all about but it isn't impossible or so painstakingly difficult that that players will be totally crippled if their magic weapon becomes less potent.
That is where in my opinion player ingenuity comes in. If your weapon loses its potency use your wizard/sorcerer or even cleric to boost it back up again (magic weapon,greater magic weapon, align weapon etc) yes it is a pain in the arsse but it isnt insurmountable. Unless most here run low powered games damage reduction in 3.5 only slows the kill a bit doesnt make it impossible. Smart players will either A. keep hacking away doing a few points at a time to kill a foe which gives them pause on whether they should hit or run B. OR, use their magic users like I stated to bolster them since in essence that is what magic users are sometimes for - battle support.
I must state that this is an interesting method of dealing with planar scenarios, but again, in 3.5 and especially in 3.0, it doesn't work well because most of the encounters found in planar settings require magic weapons to be effective, and are often of higher difficulty than Prime encounters
I don't see how this is any different from 2e. Most planar creatures in that edition were also immune to normal weapons and encounters required magical bonuses in weapons if you wanted to succeed in battle.
I don't see how this is any different from 2e. Most planar creatures in that edition were also immune to normal weapons and encounters required magical bonuses in weapons if you wanted to succeed in battle.
It was worse in 2e from a pure +X weapon point of view. DR 40/+3 may be tough require some combat monster to penetrate with an inappropriate weapon, but it is weaker than "Immune to weapons of +2 or less." However, 3e games tend to have fewer +X weapons and more +(X-Y) weapons of ability. In 3.5 it gets pretty bad with lots of +1 weapon of ability.
I would suggest that you have enhancement bonuses go away first. If the weapon hits +0, the rest of the abilities go dormant and it is a mundane masterwork weapon for DR purposes. Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon or Native Weapon (definitely bring that spell back if you use this rule) can be cast to give the weapon a new enhancement bonus and "wake" its abilities for as long as the spell lasts.
This may seem a little bit brutal, but IMX most players are going to have either custom weapons (most likely outlands forged) or weapons they've found on various outer planes. They will seldom see more than a +2 reduction, and a byproduct of the way this works is that their is probably a thriving trade in secondhand minor magic weapons native to specific planes. You may have to grease the wheels of commerse, but you can probably find someone who is willing to trade you a +2 Longsword (Abyss) for a +2 Longsword (Baator).
But what about the second idea I had in the first post of this thread?
I personally do not think a really powerful weapon should lose all its special abilities just because it's enhancement "pluses" are reduced to zero. This old method was suggested in the post before this but I think players with really spiffy magical weapons that are enchantment heavy should be able to retain at least some of it's inherent magical mojo without casting a spell upon it to "restore it to full power".
This mechanic seemed alright to do in 2nd edition but in 3.5 (which to Me tries to be similar to 2nd edition by adapting special materials back into the game) much of bypassing Damage Reduction is dependant on special materials AND alignment traits.
So to go back to My post that started this thread. Again My idea when a planar seperation calls for taking more pluses than the weapon or armor already has....start taking away special abilities that have equivalent modifiers in the enchantment lists for said abilities in the DMG. (keen has a +1 equivalent, Anarchic has a +2, Brilliant energy has a +4, etc.)
Now from my perspective it isn't difficult or unreasonable to do this until you have to deal with odd numbered equivalents.
Easy example(using planescapes old cosmology): weapon origin> The prime material. Weapons current location> The Outer Planes. Number of planes away from it's origin= 2 (astral to Outer)
Weapon is: Keen Longsword +1
1. Loses the +1 enhancement first crossing into the Astral
2. Loses then the "Keen"(a +1 special ability) enchantment by reaching its current location in some Outer Plane.
3. Effectively reducing the weapon to just a Magical Longsword +0. It isnt reduced to a mundane masterwork longsword because although the specific effect of the magic is dormant it still registers as a magic weapon was detecting magic.
More complicated example that is the reason for the thread in the first place(using planescapes old cosmology): weapon origin> The ethereal Weapons current location> The Outer Planes. Number of planes away from it's origin= 3 (Prime to astral to Outer)
Weapon is: Holy Great Sword +2
1. Loses the +1 enhancement first crossing into the Prime
2. Loses then another +1 enhancement next by crossing next into the Astral
3. At this point the sword is now a Holy +0 Great Sword
4. Getting to its current location in the Outer planes the weapon in My revision should lose either another +1 enhancement which it doesnt have or a +1 equivalent special ability which it also does NOT have ( since the Holy ability is a +2 equivalent).
So what to do?! take the Holy special ability away completely by rounding up in the DM's favor or leave it as a Holy +0 Great Sword since the enchantment itself isnt totally consumed because it is too "potent" to be suppressed by the planes effects?
Just in case this matters to someones final opinion on this> My players are going to Sigil and the Planes and they are starting the game as Primes
So what to do?! take the Holy special ability away completely by rounding up in the DM's favor or leave it as a Holy +0 Great Sword since the enchantment itself isnt totally consumed because it is too "potent" to be suppressed by the planes effects?
Personally, in this instance, I'd use a small revision to the rules and say that because there is no other way to make the math work out, the Holy is suppressed, as well as +1 of enchantment, leaving a +1 Great Sword.
Just write out all the plusses a weapon can have, acording to how they can be broken up and have the weapon decrease in a way that makes it fit. I'd also say that more powerful special enchantments would be drained away first.
Example:
+3 Keen Holy dagger
(+1 +1 +1) +1 +2
If it traveled 1, 2, or 3 planes, it would become a +2, +1, or +0 Keen Holy dagger. If it travelled 4 planes, then it would lose the Holy (-1+2), resulting in a net +1, giving you a +1 Keen Dagger. 5 planes would make it a +0 Keen Dagger. 6 planes would make a +0 Dagger, and 7 or more would result in a MW dagger. (I know that there isn't any way to move more than three or four planes directly, but I used it just for the example)
I realize this is kind of complex, so just ignore me if it's too much :D
Now, explain to me WHY would More powerful special abilities( +3 special as an example) get zapped before lesser special abilities( +1 special as an example)?
I need to be able to make sense of it in game terms..... in case I have to explain it to players.
I've adapted that somewhat in 3.5.
[A]Your weapon never ceases to be considered magical for the purposes of bypassing DR but you again loose a "plus" as you pass through planes which lowers your attack role and makes the weapon more vulnerable to sundering.
[b]If you buy a special power at an additional +1 it continues to work regardless of what plane you are on (ie. a flaming weapon bought at +2 rather than +1). Otherwise it only works on a limited set of planes based on where/how its forged (primes, elemental, tansitive, upper planes, lower planes, planes of law, planes of chaos, or planes of conflict). I haven't had a huge amount of experience running a 3.5 game to field test this house rule but it seems to work.
This system makes it easier to hit many outsiders without requiring player to have a golfbag stuffed with assorted weapons for different locations (even in PS my games tend to be a little on the lower magic side). Some people probably won't like that. But its fairly easy to adjudicate and keep track of.
-Eric Gorman
That's just my 2 cents, though. Use it if you will
Strong enchantments on a weapon/armor rely more heavily on the essence of the Home plane to function properly than do the lesser enchantments.
1) Raw pluses go first like in 2nd edition then High end special abilities go next since they are more "connected" with the Home plane and at the same time the high end abilities are usually the enchantments placed on the outer layer of an armaments magical shell.
Higher "plused" special abilities are more potent but like you said (In my own words of course) they are placed on top of a "stack" of lesser special abilities further infusing the underlying base abilities into the material. This leaves the top layer(s) of the special ability "stack" tenuously attached and more easily made dormant.
I like! Thanks! I think it makes enough sense that my players wont question it too badly.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Come to think of it, I kind of like the system. I may use it in my own games now. . .