Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mortellan Dec 01, 2004 4:24:41	I was looking at the preview section of WotC and saw their upcoming 'race book'. Here's the part that caught my eye: ....an all-new race: illumians. In addition to the illumians, humans, half-elves, and half-orcs (which are the primary focus of the book), you'll also get monster class information for playing characters of other interesting races of destiny -- half ogres and doppelgangers, for instance... Now I wasn't too wow'ed by the first book, or its new race, those stone-thingees. The Ilumians likewise don't strike me as 'Greyhawk'. I'll lend that conversation to yall. The part I think -is- Greyhawkish is the rest... Half-elves are as common as hemp rope in D&D lit, but I believe half-orcs and half ogres are more integral to the GH campaign. The Pomarj, Iuz and Ull are just three regions that benefit from such material. Even doppleganger PCs have a precedent for GH in an old Dragon article by Moore. I'll give this book a look. On a side note the title, Races of Destiny does evoke an idea in my head. Imagine if there were a supplement devoted -just- to fleshing out the human races of GH. That alone would fill a volume.
#2 scoti_garbidis Dec 01, 2004 7:30:22	"Races of Destiny" don't think the Scarlet Brotherhood is gonna like this whole races thing..... i have a feeling the will drop the "s" :D
#3 omote Dec 01, 2004 9:05:40	"Races of Destiny" don't think the Scarlet Brotherhood is gonna like this whole races thing..... i have a feeling the will drop the "s" :D The hilarity factor is very high. On a more topical note, that is one reason I didn't like the RACES OF STONE book. I understand why there was so much new stuff in RoS (because who want's to see a rehash of what already has been printed), however I did at the same time wanted to see some old-school straight up CORE D&D goodness. I know I'm biased, but I definately was looking for more from RoS with a Greyhawk feel to it. I was quite dissappointed when I didn't read antyhing with the CORE Greyhawk feel to it IMO. ..........................Omote FPQ
#4 ivid Dec 03, 2004 5:59:10	Ilum... what?! That sounds like... *errh* Really, I think this book is more for some Realmers, *Followers of the New Fantasy of what I do know absolutely nothing* (Eberron), or (if there are still) some Dark Sun gamers... I think Ilumians on Oerth, that is something like *Drows on Krynn*... *Certainly NEVER gonna buy this book*
#5 Mortepierre Dec 03, 2004 6:32:34	I think Ilumians on Oerth, that is something like *Drows on Krynn*... *cough*DLS4 Wild Elves*cough*
#6 nightdruid Dec 03, 2004 6:34:59	Reading the Illumian I can't help but think of the Earthlink commercials... "What's that...thing spinning around your head?" "Oh that? That's not real. It's just a marketing gimmick..." Illumians sound like walking ads for Earthlink
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 03, 2004 10:05:56	lol, that's great, Nightdruid. I too, realize WoTC for what it is. A giant marketing machine from hel... er WA. ;)
#8 ivid Dec 05, 2004 6:53:45	*cough*DLS4 Wild Elves*cough* May Hextor help us! Do you insinuate that there are DROWS on Krynn..?! :coolcthul
#9 Mortepierre Dec 05, 2004 10:58:20	May Hextor help us! Do you insinuate that there are DROWS on Krynn..?! Most DL fans refuse to touch that module with a 10 ft. pole but.. yes
#10 Yeoman Dec 05, 2004 14:05:46	May Hextor help us! Do you insinuate that there are DROWS on Krynn..?! :coolcthul Aaargh is nothing sacred! Next they'll try selling DL fans a 'mysterious crashed alien ship' in them thar hills......
#11 ivid Dec 05, 2004 15:01:04	I am somewhat undecided between and :evillaugh ... This book really could interest me... As a Ravenlofter, I am always attracted by disgusting things some way... I wanna see the gamer who used that book for a DL campaign! No wonder TSR went bankrupt...
#12 Mortepierre Dec 05, 2004 15:18:57	Aaargh is nothing sacred! Next they'll try selling DL fans a 'mysterious crashed alien ship' in them thar hills...... Well, actually.. *cough* how did you think those drows had 'landed' on Krynn?
#13 Yeoman Dec 05, 2004 17:51:10	Well, actually.. *cough* how did you think those drows had 'landed' on Krynn? Doh! Uh-oh I've just had a vision of space-faring elves traveling between worlds, the contamination of Oerth by Kender, Greyhawk City University's new chancellor Prof Elfminster. Oh mamma I'm gonna be ill! Just going for a lie down... :D
#14 ivid Dec 06, 2004 5:37:38	Pray that WotC doesn't consider resurrecting Spelljammer or Planescape! With all the new licenses the company got in the meantime, noone can imagine what they would make out of D&D! Darth Vader an ally to Emperor Iuz. Mizra the Wizard a member of the Circle of the Eight. Ctulthu monsters hunting down the people of Keoland. Duel Masters spreading all along the Flanaess. And a bunch of strangely clothed people with sticks in their hands mumbling something about being followers of a weird new religion called *Major League Baseball*... :headexplo
#15 Mortepierre Dec 06, 2004 7:14:33	Pray that WotC doesn't consider resurrecting Spelljammer or Planescape! I wouldn't mind a return of Planescape. I rather liked the way the "logic" of it all tied together the different settings of D&D. Of course, given that both DL and FR have now their own cosmology, it would be a bit difficult. Ah well...
#16 zombiegleemax Dec 06, 2004 14:47:44	Uh-oh I've just had a vision of space-faring elves traveling between worlds, the contamination of Oerth by Kender, Greyhawk City University's new chancellor Prof Elfminster. Oh mamma I'm gonna be ill! Just going for a lie down... :D Well, the contamination has already begun. Blackstaff Junior from the Realms is supposed to be already living in Greyhawk. Unclean! Unclean! ;)
#17 Yeoman Dec 06, 2004 14:59:50	Well, the contamination has already begun. Blackstaff Junior from the Realms is supposed to be already living in Greyhawk. Unclean! Unclean! ;) Doctor, I'm afraid this patient is terminal!
#18 zombiegleemax Dec 08, 2004 21:19:53	Returning to Mortellan's original post, I comment that I was disappointed by Races of Stone, and based on that experience am not looking forward to the rest of the series. I found the descriptions of dwarven and gnomish culture and religions to be uninspired and not well linked to anything imagined previously. Similarly the introduction of the goliaths was less fun than it might have been because this "race" wasn't linked well to "original" D&D monsters, and the rules it required seem a bit broken. I liked a few of the feats and one or two of the prestige classes. I think it's weird that the second of the series focuses on (near)-humans but am somewhat intrigued by Wizards attempting to represent the diversity of human ethnicities and cultures.
#19 zombiegleemax Dec 08, 2004 21:34:48	WOW!!! some of you sound like a bunch of snotty purists... ("some" being the key word) i hear there's a bunch of people down south with a similar mentality you guys might get along with.
#20 omote Dec 08, 2004 22:00:23	THAT'S IT!!! I hear an official 3.5 RACES OF GREYHAWK beckoning... Even though I'm not a fan of the new races books, I don't think I'm snotty. I just personally really enjoy the flavor of the original races as they were presented. The new RACE BOOKS are very nice for the new version of the game, especially when used in Conjunction with the Forgotten Realms or Eberron setting. In that case I think the Race books are very good! ...............................Omote FPQ
#21 mortellan Dec 08, 2004 23:59:12	Purist, hmm maybe. Is that bad, certainly not. The intention of my original post was to see what elements may or may not work from that book in a standard GH campaign. A Purist would likely be someone who eschews anything post-Gygax, but a liberal GH fan would use anything in their game I think, including Ilumians and Goliaths. This, on a tangent, is where making GH the 'default' setting is bad for those new to the setting. Not -everything- official in D&D works for a GH flavor campaign. It's a sort of forced setting revisionism thing that most either ignore or adapt to on a case by case basis, like when Dwarves were suddenly allowed to be arcane casters or when a cool PrC or feat from one specific setting book finds it's way into a core book and suddenly GH players can justify making a Red Wizard. So in a nutshell I think the race books are better for homebrew campaigns and for established settings with established parameters they only water-down the flavor.
#22 ivid Dec 09, 2004 2:45:09	I wouldn't mind a return of Planescape. I rather liked the way the "logic" of it all tied together the different settings of D&D. . Planescape wasn't bad at all. It's weak point was that to make it a major gaming setting you had *so to say* to weaken the other world's backgrounds - and that's why I never came to like it. Besides that *alien ship* or *planar gate* concepts never worked with my gamers... To the races books: I just don't think that most of the gamers will have a use for them - they should go on to a policy where they mix Races books and the MMs so people have not to buy dozens of different products to play. (I personally don't like illegal pdf copies, but do you really think that even a mediocre book will bring good sales, if people in the age of KazaA have the feeling that they don't need it?)
#23 omote Dec 09, 2004 9:09:23	from Mortellen's post: That is one reason I don't like to "sell" GREYHAWK as the core setting for D&D anymore. As well all know, GH is only ever so briefly touched upon in the 3.5 PHB. As the 3.5 game has eveolved, IMO it has gotten farther and farther away from GH. As as many of us can agree, that is one reason that we need the definative GREYHAWK HB Setting book (box set, or whatever), to be released... again -- to let those new to the setting realize the GH is not what is presented in every new splat book for WOTC, but a genuine High Swords & Sorcery setting. ..............................Omote FPQ
#24 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2004 10:49:01	While Mr. Anthony is unkind and vague, I'd like to respond to the other posters. The goliaths ar neat but their "Powerful Build" racial trait seems to break the basic rules of the game. I'd have preferred to see a description on using stone giants, a great D&D monster, as a PC race, or I'd have liked that chapter to be omitted and in its place more depth on the "Other Races of Stone" chapter, which didn't present a compelling set of races, IMO. Regarding the culture and religions presented for dwarves and gnomes, my poit is somewhat ambivalent: on the one hand I prefer for new D&D products to build upon and elaborate the previously created mythos. On the other hand, material with no connection to past publications appears to provide "more options" for DMs and PCs. Nevertheless, for me, Races of Stone was disappointing for not building upon or elaborating the established religions of the dwarves. For the gnome chapter, the book did a somewhat better job, but it still failed to add meaningfully to "our" "knowledge" of these fantasy races. I could go on and point out how this new book completely ignored the articles published in Dragon on these races (following the debut of 3e), but to folks who care to read and respond meaningfully, I think I've made my point.
#25 cwslyclgh Dec 09, 2004 14:23:43	actually I wasn't impressed with wither races of stone or races of destiny when I purused them in the store... there for they are on my back burner for a while... I will eventualy get them to round out my collection, but not at any time in the near future.