The guess was that the Sk´s should be around lvl 50-75 in version 3.5
Im curious how u would upgrade the lvls of the Heroes of Tyr.
I'd agree he was at least 15th level from the start of the series.
.But maybe that's just my DM preference. My House Rule is a simple one, the Players advance each time per Adventure 1 or 2 Levels, though not at once, in the middle and the end, sometimes they get some extra Levels during some long ones though. I don't care too much for Exp, they are nice, but you have people who are "Heroes" after all, you can't hold them low constantly, or kill them off, give them some success, after all it's a Game ;).
Oh, and Rikus has no other Class except Gladiator, because that's all he did his whole live, even in the war against Urik he was more of a Champion then a General.
:fight!:
Rikus=15th lvl
Sadira= 8th level
Tithian=17th level
Agis=16th level
Neeva=10th level
Rikus: gladiator 7/arena champion 10/fighter 5
Sadira:
wizard 9/sun wizard 10
or
sun-empowered template wizard 19
Neeva: gladiator 7/matched-pair 10
-At the end of PP5-
Rikus: gladiator 7/arena champion 10/fighter 5
Sadira:
wizard 9/sun wizard 10
or
sun-empowered template wizard 19
Neeva: gladiator 7/matched-pair 10
They all need to be much higher than that IMO.
Artifact help or not, they did kill one SK, along with some high powered undead, and did help with the destruction of another SK and the Dragon, even if they weren't the ones who actually killed them.
Then there is the Rajaat battle, and if that isn't epic scale I don't know what is.
I'd say they all are at least 30th+ level.
.Sysane, they had an epic Adventure in the first book, and Epic in the second, in which they learned about the Levy, they searched and adventured the whole third Year, they searched for the Dark Lens the next 6 Years, which isn't recorded but they surely had a lot of Adventures, except of this, they all knew they would have to fight the Dragon sooner or later, so it's sure they trained a lot. In the 10th Year came the showdown, you see, there is no time for peace on athas ;).
JFK didn't continue to be a naval officer when he became president just because he was at one time a war hero. I'm not saying the Heroes of Tyr quit their adventuring classes completely but their advancement may have slowed down some.
This is just IMO though.
As I stated before. They weren't adventuring non-stop for that whole 10 year period.
It has absolutely 0 to do with the amount of time they adventured and all to do with how they adventured.
If I'm a 1st level whatever, then go up against a 10th level whatever, and somehow survive the fight, I'm leveling quite a bit, and that's basically what happened.
I know this is all story and certain things had to happen, and that's fine, but it's our job to translate that to mechanics when needed within the actual game, and there is no way that a group of adventures took out one SK and helped take out another and the Dragon himself, along with the Kaishargas and surviving Rajaat without being quite a bit into the epic levels (30+ sounds about right to me), especially since artifacts of 3rd edition aren't all that anymore like they use to be in 2nd ed.
A lot of that time was spent on the Tyr Over Council attempting major political reform. I'd say they were 25th level tops. And some of those levels might be of a non-combat or adventuring persuasion.
They would still get XP for those if you were to run it like a regular campaign. So in essence they never did stop adventuring if you want to get technical about it, they just went from a crap load of combat to more roleplaying type adventuring for some parts of their careers. Which only means they may have some levels in NPC classes, normal classes, or PrCs that help with that sort of thing.
If I'm a 1st level whatever, then go up against a 10th level whatever, and somehow survive the fight, I'm leveling quite a bit, and that's basically what happened.
True, but mechanics wise a character can't jump from 1st level to 5th no matter how much exp they gain. They will essentially get screwed out of some for higher level encounters.
They would still get XP for those if you were to run it like a regular campaign. So in essence they never did stop adventuring if you want to get technical about it, they just went from a crap load of combat to more roleplaying type adventuring for some parts of their careers. Which only means they may have some levels in NPC classes, normal classes, or PrCs that help with that sort of thing.
True, but your not getting as much exp from parlaying with politicians as compared to defeating a SK. Remember, I did say they still got exp, just at a slower rate.
I just don't think anything in their behavior in the novels indicates a change in behavior due to their administrative duties, at least not one significant enough to indicate levels in a aristocrat-type class.They stayed pretty single-minded.
Thats only because they didn't go into great detail on "the lost years" in the novels.
True, but mechanics wise a character can't jump from 1st level to 5th no matter how much exp they gain. They will essentially get screwed out of some for higher level encounters.
Where are you getting that from?
Not aware of any rule that limits how much XP you get in an encounter, unless it's some optional rule.
Regardless, even if that is the case, they had many of those encounters, not just one or two, so instead of being mid 30s they are probably lower 30s.
True, but your not getting as much exp from parlaying with politicians as compared to defeating a SK. Remember, I did say they still got exp, just at a slower rate.
Every little helps, I'm sure within several years of just using diplomacy and such they at least got one or two levels out of it.
It also begs that they were close to epic if not at least 21+ when they first started all of this, despite what the earlier 2e writeups suggest.
Is it really worth it, though? the XP penalty would be gigantic. And why water down awesome characters with wussy classes?
Hard to consider things that beef you up on the storyteller side of things wussy, gotta have that too to make a great story, otherwise you are just going from killing one monster to the next, and that's no fun.
I didn't mean story-wise, I meant just in levels. You can roleplay however you need to,
Not if you don't have the skills to back it up, and that was all I was getting at.
but I just can't see the logic in making your on-sheet character stats weaker to accomodate it.I always thought that was part of the reason Aristocrat is considered an NPC class
I personally like Aristocrat, even if it is a NPC class.
My current character has levels in things that make her weaker in fighting but stronger with her skills and such for roleplaying, and I did that intentionally, so not sure why that seems illogical to you, it all depends on what the character wants to accomplish during game play.
If you take straight fighter levels, but then suddenly need to be better at something like Bluff where taking levels in rogue or whatever will give you the skill points for that, then I don't see a problem with that character multiclassing, as long as he can describe the reason why better via the storyline.
I'm sure most of the main heroes are not that multiclassed, but I won't rule out that they might have a level or two in some class or PrC that will enable them to be better bureaucrats, etc., with Rikus being the exception since he is a bullheaded bastard, heh.
Especially since Paladin and Sorceror are unavailable...but I definetely see Rogue as a much better alternative to Aristocrat, plus you can't multiclass into Aristocrat,you have to start as one,according to the DMG :whatsthis , but then again, house rules.....
:fight!:
:fight!:Where are you getting that from?
Not aware of any rule that limits how much XP you get in an encounter, unless it's some optional rule.
A character can only advance 1 level at a time. Any excess is lost and you are 1 exp point short from obtaining the 2nd level. At least thats how it used to be unless thats changed?
It also begs that they were close to epic if not at least 21+ when they first started all of this, despite what the earlier 2e writeups suggest
Good lord, I hope not. Thats boarder line cheese if thats the case. Your telling me that an epic level Rikus got beat by a lone Gaj? Thats just awful.
Hard to consider things that beef you up on the storyteller side of things wussy, gotta have that too to make a great story, otherwise you are just going from killing one monster to the next, and that's no fun.
Exactly. I don't think Rikus and Sadira were worried about power gaming and taking a XP penalty.
Agis should have a lot of "political" Levels, his Psi Level shouldn't be over 19, else the Order would have contacted him.
A character can only advance 1 level at a time. Any excess is lost and you are 1 exp point short from obtaining the 2nd level. At least thats how it used to be unless thats changed?
No idea where you are getting that from, heh.
Good lord, I hope not. Thats boarder line cheese if thats the case. Your telling me that an epic level Rikus got beat by a lone Gaj? Thats just awful.
So we make it an epic gaj. :D
Sure add levels of fighter to some, prestige classes to others to 'flavour' them all in that 3e way, but the 2e material provides a firm guide to overall power level.
Dregoth #1, Nibenay #2. I know all those hammanu fans will be gnashing thier teeth and wailing, but hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles :D just feel sorry for all the kalak fans...
Jaanos
I don't mind Hammnu being in the middle somewhere, heh, fanboy or no.
:D
Kalak sucks goat twaddle.
I don't mind Hammnu being in the middle somewhere, heh, fanboy or no.
:D
But definetely, keep him where he's at.
:fight!:
:fight!::D
I totally didn't mean to imply that Hamanu is on any other place in the pecking order than he is. Definetely not. What I meant was that the only reason he wasn't higher was because he chose to remain where he was.
But definetely, keep him where he's at.
:fight!:
Though Hamanu is my most fav SK also would have him below Nibenay, in Levels.
No idea where you are getting that from, heh.
Bro, its one of the fundamentals of gaining levels!
Look at pg 58 of the PHB under Experience & Levels:
A character can advance only one level at a time. If, for some extraordinary reason, a character's XP reward from a single adventure would be enough to advance two or more levels at once, he or she instead advances one level and gains just enough XP to be 1 XP short of the next level. Any excess experience points are not retained.
Its pretty straight forward.
[...] of the oba - who sucks nib's wang - [...]
You jess leave my Queen alone, will ya! Have some respect...
(...)without being quite a bit into the epic levels (30+ sounds about right to me), especially since artifacts of 3rd edition aren't all that anymore like they use to be in 2nd ed.
Wait till you see some of the artifacts we revised Pennarin and me, it might change your opinion ;) .
Bro, its one of the fundamentals of gaining levels!
Look at pg 58 of the PHB under Experience & Levels:
Gah, what a lame rule, glad I ignored it, heh.
Gah, what a lame rule, glad I ignored it, heh.
Makes absolute sense to me and a realistic game mechanic. To shoot up 3+ levels at one time is just wacked.
If a 1st level character managed to survive and defeat the Trasque (with help from higher level PCs of course) is it realistic for him to be able to advance to a 7+ character levels? How much can a PC really learn from one encounter? Thats just plaIn broken if the game worked that way.
Wait till you see some of the artifacts we revised Pennarin and me, it might change your opinion ;) .
Cool, can't wait.
I want to handle the swords, got some ideas for them but I'm waiting on the dragon and epic rules to get somewhat complete first.
I'll let you two pick them apart though.
Makes absolute sense to me and a realistic game mechanic. To shoot up 3+ levels at one time is just wacked.
If a 1st level character managed to survive and defeat the Trasque (with help from higher level PCs of course) is it realistic for him to be able to advance to a 7+ character levels? How much can a PC really learn from one encounter? Thats just plan broken if the game worked that way.
Well, I think it's all in the DM's hands, no need for a rule like that.
If the DM wants the 1st level guy to go up against a Tarrasque and win and shoot up and ungodly amount of levels at once that is his perogative. If he doesn't, he won't let it happen, it's not like the DM doesn't have control over this particular sort of thing. Any DM that claims he doesn't isn't worth his salt, heh.
So I'm fine with it being an optional rule, but not one laid out in stone like that, that's just assinine.
Course, any rule in any of the books isn't really laid out in stone and can be used or ignored as the DM sees fit.
Anyway the good solution to this problem is simply to plan the XP you would give out. DMG states that the XP table was designed to make a level after 13-14 encounters which is a good guideline. You know what encounters you plan, so you can choose them XP wise as well. As we played it, DS is poor in equipment and magic, but it gives more XP compared to a generic setting. And even with that it didn't happen that the characters would make more than one level for an adventure, even on lower levels.
Well, I think it's all in the DM's hands, no need for a rule like that.
If the DM wants the 1st level guy to go up against a Tarrasque and win and shoot up and ungodly amount of levels at once that is his perogative. If he doesn't, he won't let it happen, it's not like the DM doesn't have control over this particular sort of thing. Any DM that claims he doesn't isn't worth his salt, heh.
So I'm fine with it being an optional rule, but not one laid out in stone like that, that's just assinine.
Course, any rule in any of the books isn't really laid out in stone and can be used or ignored as the DM sees fit.
Never argued that a DM doesn't have the right or power to overrule the rules and I've done so on many occasion. It just so happens I totally agree with this rule and see where it maintains balance in slow advancement to prevent huge leaps in levels gained. I just find leaps like that are ridiculous.
(shrugs) To each there own I guess.