Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 psionicpally_dup Dec 12, 2004 16:26:18	I have three new players who will be joining by weekly Planescape game. After explaining what Planescape was and how it basically joined all of the Prime/Campaign worlds, along with the Transitive/Inner/Outer planes, together, I asked them to take some time and come up with character concepts. Two of them came back and told me that they wanted to be an escaped couple from Athas(A Mul [half-dwarf, I believe] Gladiator and a Villichi [innately psionic woman, IIRC] Psion). As of now, the two are brainstorming the details of their journey from Athas (IIRC there are only two ways to exit the world: Dregoth's mirror and traversing the Black). The third player is a hardcore Forgotten Realms fan, so I was expecting something similiar to what you would find in that setting. Instead, he comes back and tells me he wants to be a Planar human Ronin and blind at that, but that's a topic for another forum. So, the question is "Has anyone had experience running Athasian or Oriental characters through the Planes?". If so, your expertise would be greatly appreciated (how your PCs reacted to the introduction of gods, how they interacted with the various peoples of the Planes, etc.). Also, there is one last thing, where would a Japanese-inspired Planar live (outside of Sigil)? I seem to remember something about a Japanese sun goddess, but I have no idea where she would be in the Planes. . . . :embarrass Maybe I should just start limiting my PCs' characters.
#2 MephitJames Dec 12, 2004 16:39:51	I don't have experience with 3e primes in a planar game, but a long 2e game I ran had a few. The best plan, I think, is to have a sense of grandeur that the primes feel left out of. It sounds like they have great character concepts and that their characters are definitely going to hold their own on the planes (by the way, if you don't already know about athas.org, it's a great reference for Dark Sun d20). Primes on the planes, though, are automatically treated as inferiors or wayward children. They are confused and out of their element, and powerful primes hold the same dangerous as well-armed psychopaths: the stronger they are, the more dangerously they can lash out. I would have planar NPCs automatically talk to the party's planars and dismiss the primes as barbarians. I also always like to throw primes curve-balls like a friendly slaad who wants to guide them through Pandemonium if they'll sing for him, or an aasimon who wants someone to kill a "dangerous" tiefling who turns out to have refused the celestial a donation. The ronin character will have difficulty with the tricky motivations of planars, it's not just honor and respect. Likewise the Athasians will probably see every powerful creature as a danger since they have no concept of Outsiders, only deadly monsters in the desert. It can be tough if the players playing planar characters also jump to conclusion, but if they're roleplaying well they should have an easier time reconciling their characters' actions than the self-righteous primes.
#3 ripvanwormer Dec 12, 2004 17:01:16	Also, there is one last thing, where would a Japanese-inspired Planar live (outside of Sigil)? Kenyama is a realm in Ysgard where the Japanese deities Hachiman and O-Kuni-Nushi dwell. The petitioners of Kenyama are said to be able to match the Asgardians blow for blow. This might be the best choice. Cherry Blossom is the realm in Arcadia of the creator deities Izanagi and Izanami dwell. Izanagi's realm is a heaven, while Izanami's part of the realm is an underworld. Susanoo's realm is in Limbo. Amatsu-Mikaboshi's realm is in Acheron. And there are others Maybe someone else will pick up my slack. I think I'd go with Kenyama. There's a community of Athasian immigrants in Sigil called New Tyr.
#4 psionicpally_dup Dec 14, 2004 15:15:48	Thanks for the info. Rip, one other question. Which ward is New Tyr located in?
#5 Ryltar_Swordsong Dec 14, 2004 18:38:09	New Tyr is in the Hive.
#6 weenie Dec 14, 2004 20:34:36	Cherry Blossom is the realm in Arcadia of the creator deities Izanagi and Izanami dwell. Izanagi's realm is a heaven, while Izanami's part of the realm is an underworld. Maybe someone else will pick up my slack. Sure. IMC, Isanami is not in Arcadia, she's on the Astral. It fits the RL myth better, IMHO.
#7 kilamar Dec 14, 2004 22:50:32	So, the question is "Has anyone had experience running Athasian or Oriental characters through the Planes?". Yes, I have. In our current Planescape campaign we have an Ogre Mage, being there for reasons unknown to the group. The Players know that he is fleeing from some crime he committed on the material plane. We have a sword fighting priest searching for the holy blade of his god that was stolen, as we found out recently, by one of our arch enemies. The priest had a Samurai bodyguard for some time, before the player of the Samurai left the group. My halfing is partly athasian, originating from a community of "normal" planar halflings and nearby tribes of athasian halfings on the beastlands. No special rules were necessary. My halfling is a standard PHB one, the Ogre Mage follows the savage species progression, the sword fighting priest is a monk multiclass and the samurai left before we changed to D&D (he used the Samurai Kit from AD&D 2nd). Kilamar
#8 voldenuit Dec 15, 2004 18:37:03	As of now, the two are brainstorming the details of their journey from Athas (IIRC there are only two ways to exit the world: Dregoth's mirror and traversing the Black). ex-Factol Mallin of the Mercykillers hailed from Athas. In fact, after his death, he was interred on Athas via a portal in the Mortuary. Sigil is connected to every Plane (and in 3e, Multiverse) via its portals. The thing about the city is that it can (and does) break the rules. Its portals can even connect to demiplanes (that normally need a coterminous or coexistant connection). So it's entirely feasible for Athasian PCs to stumble through a portal to Sigil, especially if the portal were a Shifter. Planescape fiction is full of such characters, and there is reportedly even an Athasian quarter in the Hive. . . . :embarrass Maybe I should just start limiting my PCs' characters. Tsk tsk - shame on you! :P One thing I would like to recreate would be the blind archer from Planescape: Torment. How I'd go about it I still have no idea.
#9 weenie Dec 15, 2004 18:51:04	One thing I would like to recreate would be the blind archer from Planescape: Torment. How I'd go about it I still have no idea. I had a PC who wanted to be a blind archer once... and I don't think she got the idea from PS:T. I had her take the Zen Archery feat from Oriental Adventures, and ruled it negated blindness penalties on ranged attacks. Also, there was a PrC somewhere (EN World, some campaign setting with the word "forge" in its name) that dealt specifically with blind warriors...
#10 ripvanwormer Dec 15, 2004 19:23:21	IMC, Isanami is not in Arcadia, she's on the Astral. It fits the RL myth better, IMHO. I can see that, since the Astral is normally where dead gods go. On the other hand, she's not dead in the sense that dead gods usually are. She's still aware, and active. She's busy killing all the mortals who die, and bringing them (remotely) to her realm. Izanami swore to take a thousand lives every day from the creatures Izanagi would create. Therefore, wherever she lives has to also be a place where mortals go when they die. For mortals, the Astral is more of a transitive place, not usually a destination. Therefore, I would place her realm with the other underworlds somewhere in the Outer Planes. It's possible that she was, once, a corpse in the Astral, but she was revived (in a hideous new form) when Izanami defied the laws of the universe and the (pre-Anubis) Guardian of the Dead Gods in order to find her. Perhaps Yomi was created from Izanami's expectations of what he would discover beyond the gates. It does seem strange that two gods so fundamentally seperated by the trauma of death would share a realm. I blame the loss of Nemausus; when that layer shifted to Mechanus, Izanami remained behind (as did Osiris), forced to partially merge her realm with that of the others of her pantheon or shift into Mechanus with her former home. All sorts of metaphysical disasters ensue, which is good for Planescape campaign.
#11 ripvanwormer Dec 15, 2004 19:27:24	So it's entirely feasible for Athasian PCs to stumble through a portal to Sigil, especially if the portal were a Shifter. Planescape fiction is full of such characters, and there is reportedly even an Athasian quarter in the Hive. According to The Inner Planes campaign expansion, there's a portal called the Obsidian Gate of Tor Gaylen in Athas, leading to the Quasielemental Plane of Ash. There are surely natural vortices to the Inner Planes in concentrations of elemental power throughout the world: for example, vortices to the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze beneath the Silt Sea. And the githyanki created a portal during their long-ago invasion. And it was recently reopened, so that many slaves could be brought through to the Astral Plane. "Former slave of the githyanki" would be a good PC background.
#12 zombiegleemax Dec 15, 2004 22:49:13	IIRC, access to the elemental planes is not as restricted as the astral plane. The rukova (sp?) were originally native of Athas (from PSMC3). So the Athasian can get out of Athas via elemental planes and from there, onwards to other planes. The native druids probably can help. Or you can simply have a freak magic accident which sends them flying across the Gray into the astral plane. The ronin probably won't be a problem. He's just a fighter in strange attire. Still, planars ought to be adaptable to strangeness on the planes.
#13 MephitJames Dec 16, 2004 14:39:50	In Planescape, where there's a will there's a way. I think elemental vortices would be pretty common on Athas (this has got me flipping through all my old stuff!) I remember there was even a portal that was a big obsidian arch on Athas that when heated to glowing opened a path to Magma (I think it was in the Inner Planes). I like the idea this presents that portals can occur on Athas, but they are pretty cumbersome to use. Instead of "carry a feather in your left hand," it's "hold an all night vigil with three other clerics of Silt."
#14 weenie Dec 16, 2004 16:12:30	She's busy killing all the mortals who die, and bringing them (remotely) to her realm. Izanami swore to take a thousand lives every day from the creatures Izanagi would create. Yes, well, let's not get carried away... if we take all the Powers-related myths for granted, we'll end up in the Paradox Realm. IMC, I dropped most of the "evil" Izanami stuff (including her being the de facto goddess of death) and put her in the Astral. Sometimes the Outlands seem just too small for all the TN Powerss, don't they... It's possible that she was, once, a corpse in the Astral, but she was revived (in a hideous new form) when Izanami defied the laws of the universe and the (pre-Anubis) Guardian of the Dead Gods in order to find her. It does seem strange that two gods so fundamentally seperated by the trauma of death would share a realm. That's what I was thinking. While we're on the subject, I loved the way you connected the bladelings with Amatsu-Mikaboshi. Gotta go back and finish formatting that japanese_pantheon.rtf before someone on PW.com beats me to it...
#15 voldenuit Dec 17, 2004 4:21:49	According to The Inner Planes campaign expansion, there's a portal called the Obsidian Gate of Tor Gaylen in Athas, leading to the Quasielemental Plane of Ash. There are surely natural vortices to the Inner Planes in concentrations of elemental power throughout the world: for example, vortices to the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze beneath the Silt Sea. Yeah, I remember reading that. The portal key was heating the gate to red heat iirc ^_^. However, I am an adherent of the "multiple cosmology" theory posited in 3e (yes, I know I'm a heretic). So the Inner Planes on Athas IMC are not the same Inner Planes as in Greyhawk, Krynn or Toril. This accounts for the different paraelemental planes on Athas as opposed to in the core cosmology.
#16 Wolfen_Fenrison Jan 05, 2005 15:12:20	As I understand it a few athasian races have been translated to 3e in various rule books, now keep in mind my dark sun knowledge is limited, the thri-kreen and the half-giants have been updated in the XPH, I don't know if there are any more iconic DS races that need translation. OA races are easy to include in a planescape game, in my setting (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=355445) I've made rokugon and greyhawk part of the same prime, and at www.planewalker.com they have rules for who the OA races interact on the planes. :whatsthis
#17 Sysane Jan 05, 2005 16:24:49	There are more DS races beyond just the Kreen and Half-Giants. Dwarves, Elves, Haflings, etc are drastically different than say the ones you would find in GH or FR. I'd suggest either going to athas.org or Dragon Mag #319 for 3.5 conversions.
#18 jesterjeff Jan 05, 2005 18:50:11	For your blind human Ronin, well the easy was is to just give him the blindnesspenalties until he buys blind-fighting. you could maybe make a melee version of the zen archer prestige class or at least allow, in this instance, melee attacks to fall under the zen archery feat. For the Athasian wanderers, definately have those two players use either the dragon mag or athas.org players guides. I'd recomend athas.org as it also offers unique class designs and feats. the gladiator class in it is fantastic.
#19 flindbar Jan 12, 2005 7:11:51	Also, there is one last thing, where would a Japanese-inspired Planar live (outside of Sigil)? I seem to remember something about a Japanese sun goddess, but I have no idea where she would be in the Planes. You could try having a look in "On Hallowed Ground". I seem to remember that there might be a Japanese pantheon in the back there somewhere.
#20 thanael Jan 12, 2005 10:45:48	OHG: Amaterasu Light of Heaven LG, Mt Celestia/Mercuria/Radiant Light -no known proxies -is the twin sister of the moon godess Tsuki-Yomi. -relations with Apollo and Ra -nearby Vedic powers starting to pay attention to her Radiant light is a soothing land where everything i suffused with the soft glow of the sun, Nothing in Radiant light casts a shadow, and secret dealings always fail. More info on that goddess will be in the free download of Legends and Lore, though nothing Planescape specific...
#21 weenie Jan 12, 2005 19:02:49	Or, if you don't have OHG, you could tjeck out the 3.5 PS verison of the pantheon here